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aquinob · 04-23-2015, 05:55 AM

I've got three of the original vents on my '73 Overlander, none of the original fans are still present. As part of my ongoing refurbishment of the interior I would like to get rid of the original light fixtures and make something that will look more modern and neat. http://www.airforums.com/forums/f46/...or-127619.html

I thought I would bite the bullet and order some fantastic fans or the like, but the prices for 3 start to get expensive and I'm already spending quite a bit for new recliners, floor, etc.

Also, I'm not too excited about replacing the original metal vents with the all metal construction with plastic stuff on a hot roof. I've seen threads that talk about issues with the flanges cracking and it looks like I'll have to do some cutting of interior metal since the original vent frame has rounded corners.

So my brilliant idea is to put a fan in each original vent and contstruct some sort of new cover incorporating a screen and possibly a light source as well. Looking online for a source of 12v fans, it turns out there are quite a few that are made for automotive auxilliary cooling, so they should be very capable of withstanding the environment close to the heat and wetness. And the best part is they are fairly cheap, around 30-40 each. I can either set them up with a potentiometer or rotary switch for multiple speeds and to dial down the current draw. Here is what one looks like:

Amazon.com: CFR Performance 8" High Performance Electric Radiator Cooling Fan - Flat Blade: Automotive

What say you all?

crispyboy · 04-23-2015, 06:13 AM

It should probably work ok if your on a tight budget and move a lot of air.
My opinion is that:
- they could be noisy, automotive fans seem to make a lot of noise to me. The fans with the "s" shaped blades will probably be the most quiet and efficient.
- it might stick down from the ceiling unless you modify the fan housing to recess the fan.
- would looks hillbilly to me......

Maybe purchase one and see if it is worth the effort. I agree that the powered rv fans are way overpriced for what you get.

cwf · 04-23-2015, 06:48 AM

Spray it Airstream Blue or silver!!!

Those pull more power and air!

And don't put where fingers can get to it....

KJRitchie · 04-23-2015, 06:50 AM

Bad idea. Buy the proper fans as you can afford them.

ALUMINUMINUM · 04-23-2015, 07:06 AM

From one hillbilly to another...

Hopefully this thread will evolve with a solution to what is a dilemma to many who seek a more controllable fan system while preserving the appearance and function of the original vents. I toyed with a reverse flow solution by trying a common double pole double throw switch, but the nature of the original fans is not to reverse direction with polarity reversal.

I changed the switch out with a PWM, but the audible frequency was intolerable. I am aware that there are high frequency PWMs but have not tried one. I suspect that they may attract dogs or repel rodents.

I also put in line a small solid state 12V to 9V step-down transformer which again resulted in an annoying hum.

I contacted the seller of a popular radiator fan as you have pictured, and was assured that they will reverse with a simple polarity switch.

That's my next investigation. There are countless diameters, widths, amps, blade configurations, and cfms, to pick from, so it's very possible to find one that should fit in without looking too hillbilly.

BTW, Webster's original definition of Hillbilly was "A Michigan Farmer".

https://www.google.com/search?q=webs...utf-8&oe=utf-8

Keep us posted on your quest...

AWCHIEF · 04-23-2015, 07:18 AM

I figure it is your trailer to do with as you please. Nothing wrong with showing ingenuity to save some cash. Not everyone has an unlimited budget.

Minno · 04-23-2015, 07:24 AM

Look for a fan that has a screen for insects that can easily be removed for cleaning. The one you posted doesn't seem to have that feature....

Kay (the fan cleaner)

aquinob · 04-23-2015, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minno

Look for a fan that has a screen for insects that can easily be removed for cleaning. The one you posted doesn't seem to have that feature....

Kay (the fan cleaner)

Kay
I'll probably have to fabricate some sort of screen insert unless I can find one the right size to fit. I would try and make it so it comes out easily enough. I do seem to get an accumulation of small debris inside the screens each year.

aquinob · 04-23-2015, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

Bad idea. Buy the proper fans as you can afford them.

Care to elaborate why you think it's a bad idea or why I should spend the extra cash for plastic?

aquinob · 04-23-2015, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALUMINUMINUM

From one hillbilly to another...

Hopefully this thread will evolve with a solution to what is a dilemma to many who seek a more controllable fan system while preserving the appearance and function of the original vents. I toyed with a reverse flow solution by trying a common double pole double throw switch, but the nature of the original fans is not to reverse direction with polarity reversal.

I changed the switch out with a PWM, but the audible frequency was intolerable. I am aware that there are high frequency PWMs but have not tried one. I suspect that they may attract dogs or repel rodents.

I also put in line a small solid state 12V to 9V step-down transformer which again resulted in an annoying hum.

I contacted the seller of a popular radiator fan as you have pictured, and was assured that they will reverse with a simple polarity switch.

That's my next investigation. There are countless diameters, widths, amps, blade configurations, and cfms, to pick from, so it's very possible to find one that should fit in without looking too hillbilly.

BTW, Webster's original definition of Hillbilly was "A Michigan Farmer".

https://www.google.com/search?q=webs...utf-8&oe=utf-8

Keep us posted on your quest...

I'll take Hillbilly as a compliment, even though I was orginally born in Brooklyn. Any 12v dc fan will reverse if the polarity is reversed, and a simple DPDT switch will handle that. Ill play with some sort of switch or pot to vary the speed and I'll measure the inside of the vent and see what I can find that will fit inside so it sits above the bottom of the ceiling opening. If I order them off Amazon and they dont work, I can send them back as long as I dont do anything to them. Don't really see how I have much to loose.

I for one, like to see solutions to issues that are a bit out of the box. Technology has changed in the last 40 years so as new products come out, it's nice to see where folks can adapt them as they see fit.

ALUMINUMINUM · 04-23-2015, 09:13 AM

I also found on eBay, that from time to time there are genuine "Fantastic" motors, blades and switches being sold separately.

Something else that I have partly investigated is switches and fans related to automotive heater blowers.

It seems that some folks miss the point about needlessly hawging out the original metal vents. My original 1968 vents operate flawlessly, They open strait up with two winders, and can be adjusted to capture or deflect the prevailing direction of breeze or rain. When fully open, they haven't blown off at highway speeds in 45 years. For me, it's a much superior design to the now popular single side hinge style. And, like you say, they're all metal. Way more appropriate to have the flat metal cap on on an older trailer than the plastic white/smoke bubble found on any brand of today's RV. To me, Genuine Fantastics would only devalue my trailer, so a highly function "work-within" solution is in my mind. Cost isn't necessarily the controlling factor, there is an aesthetic involved as well.
There's only a finite number of old Airstreams about, and it's my feeling that they deserve to be preserved as much as possible while "updating". So, I try not to do things that will be difficult to undo or affect my trailer's vintage appeal in the future.

Hmmmm, sounds like the words of a "Vintage Snob".

crispyboy · 04-23-2015, 11:13 AM

Post a few picks when you get one completed. I understand better what your trying to accomplish and would like to see how they turn out.

JimGolden · 04-23-2015, 11:27 AM

I was going to recommend these to you. I put three of them on my rig and have been very happy with them. 10 speeds forward and reverse, and you can run them in a monsoon and the trailer doesn't take any water in.

MaxxAir 00-05100k

But, it appears that they have gone up in price tremendously since I bought mine. This was the cheapest place around to get them. But I think this is like $100 more for each one than I paid just 3-4 years ago.

I do agree a nice aluminum cover would look better.

Best of luck whichever way you to.

ALUMINUMINUM · 04-23-2015, 12:37 PM

This is the one that I was contemplating to modify.

12" Reversable 12V Radiator Electric Thermo Fan | eBay

I haven't committed to it as something better may surface with further searching, so it's become a back-burner project.

12"x3", 7A, 1100cfm, reversible, $17 free ship

Mixter · 04-23-2015, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimGolden

I was going to recommend these to you. I put three of them on my rig and have been very happy with them. 10 speeds forward and reverse, and you can run them in a monsoon and the trailer doesn't take any water in.

MaxxAir 00-05100k

But, it appears that they have gone up in price tremendously since I bought mine. This was the cheapest place around to get them. But I think this is like $100 more for each one than I paid just 3-4 years ago.

I do agree a nice aluminum cover would look better.

Best of luck whichever way you to.

Pretty much my sentiments exactly. I did the smoke ones and I really like the way they look. Vents/Fans

I tried my hardest to figure out what to do when it was time to tackle the vents, because I too hated the idea of ripping out the solid aluminum and putting in plastic crap. The fore and aft vents were easier to give up because they had the plastic middles and although I "could" have rebuilt them, they still would be old and I wanted a more modernized fan/ vent feature. I replaced these with the Maxxfan Deluxe's.... VERY sweet replacement.

The middle vent I had a harder time with... the vent lid was solid top and it matched the trailer perfectly- being 100% aluminum. However, the interior presented a logistics problem because it was designed to have the old style lights, which incorporated the screen and vent handle.... I'm moving to all LED recessed inside and doing away with all the old 6 bulb vent/ lights, so I tried to figure out a way to keep the vent, but fab up a nice trimmed out screen on the inside. I quickly gave up and realized "upgrading" to the modern style would fit just fine with my renovation. I figured I did not need a Maxxfan Deluxe for this, as I could get away with a fantastic vent- basic style with screen and lid only...

I regret this decision big time. I hate that Fantastic Fan compared to my Maxxfans- which are really slick- both in aesthetics and features. The FF rubber seal always sticks to the lid, and the screws are already rusting on the support arms and just feels flimsy and cheap. Not sure if the more expensive FF's are the same frame and lid? I know people rave about FF, but mine is no comparison to the Maxxfan.

Do I wish I kept the original aluminum solid vent on fore and aft? A resounding NO. Do I wish I kept the middle one? Ehh.... maybe I could have kept that piece and trimmed it out to my liking and vintage remnant effect to an otherwise modernized trailer.

I can say, that the Fantastic vent is coming out and I'm going to put a 3rd Maxxfan Deluxe there, which if you dont know my opinion already.... is sweet.

aquinob · 04-23-2015, 06:31 PM

Still pondering this one out. When I got home I took some measurements and some photos of the vent opening. The critical measurement would be from the plane of the ceiling to the two bars that open up the lid. That measurement looks to be about 2" at least on the side, but could be more in the middle. Some of the fans listed describe the dimensions as roughly 2.5 inches in the center to about 1.5 toward the edge.

The other issues would be the noise and current draw vs cfm of air moved. Fans designed for engine cooling aren't optimized for their noise and amperage but for the amount of air they can pull. Best I can suss out online is that the fantastic fan can pull about 900 cfm at around 3 amps spinning at 1400 rpm. These engine cooling fans seem to be rated around 1200 to 1700 cfm depending on blade size and anywhere from 8 amps up. Some of the stickers on the motors claim 80 watts so doing the math, that means they draw about 6 amps give or take. At full speed the fantastic fan spins about 1400 rpm and these engine fans are in the 2k range, some closer to 3k. Assuming that the folks at Fantastic obey the same laws of physics as all these offshore makers, then by slowing down these cooling fans, the amps, cfm and noise would probably be much closer.

I've also been looking at muffin fans, these are used routinely to cool electrical and electronic equipment. I think what limits that selection is using 12v. Most of these fans are 110v AC. I did find one with a 5.5" fan that can pull about 280cfm but that is at 28v DC, so on 12v it probably will pull half or less. But it probably would be very quiet.

So at this point I will probably order the fan listed in the first post. Its a bit more expensive, 38 bucks but is Prime so I can send it back no questions asked if it doesn't work out. Specs are 2.8 amps 12 Volt 2860 RPM and 1700 CFM. If it works out, I'll buy one more and then work on a mount and figure out the electricals to give it variable speeds and reverse.

Glenritas · 04-23-2015, 07:05 PM

I had no intention to keep the original vents as they do not vent very well ( I have the same vent on my '73 Dodge Van over the bed ) besides the rear vent was damaged by the TV antenna and was where the A/C was to be placed.

I went with the remote controlled Maxxair Fans . One for the front and a second for the rear behind the a/c .

The best thing is I can control both units with one remote either simultaneously or by shielding the the remote with my hand, individually. Boy they really move the air

Minno · 04-25-2015, 08:26 AM

We have Maxxair fore and aft, my only regret is we didn't get remote control since I am SHORT and have to climb on the bed to open the aft one! Our originals were wrecked or missing. We put a regular old vent in the center hole, but have now taken it out and patched the hole as we truly didn't need 3 vents with the Maxxairs.
Good luck with your vents, I'm looking forward to what you come up with and how it works for future considerations! It's always cool when someone finds a better way.

Kay

aquinob · 04-25-2015, 09:03 AM

Thanks Kay. I ordered the fan, should be here on Tuesday, and I'll play with it to see how it fits in the opening and how loud it is and the amount of air it moves. I've got enough things to do to get this puppy back together to get some camping in this year. Already a good month behind but things should be coming together. New paint on the inside, new vinyl plank flooring and two new recliners. I think it will be quite the upgrade when its done.