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Old 12-13-2009, 06:07 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Joebanjo View Post
...NEVER EVER use petroleum jelly on rubber or vinyl. I would simply try some KY jelly. As you slide the newly completed glass assembly back into the frame, simply spray the gasket with a fine mist of water to reactivate the KY and you should be home free..
Thanks, Mike. I have always been slightly uncomfortable with peetroleum jelly on rubber, but didn't know if that was rumor or fact.

Zep
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Old 12-13-2009, 07:17 PM   #86
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Have been following this post with great interest. Had to comment, NEVER EVER use petroleum jelly on rubber or vinyl. I would simply try some KY jelly. As you slide the newly completed glass assembly back into the frame, simply spray the gasket with a fine mist of water to reactivate the KY and you should be home free..

Mike
"Silicone spray" works great on rubber and vinyl.

Andy
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Old 12-13-2009, 07:23 PM   #87
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Richard,

In my search for the correct butyl and gaskets, I found this page at DK Hardware. You could get the exact thickness butyl tape to repair your vista view.

Architectural Butyl Tapes

Zep
Zep,

They seem to have shuffled things around on that site since you quoted it in 2007. Here is the page for the tapes, but what size were you saying is the "perfect" one for Vist View windows?

http://www.dkhardware.com/search.asp...=Architectural Butyl Tapes

Edit: whoops, I should have read more or the thread, you found many other things out after that post back on the first page of the thread. Like that the 0.15" pre-shimmed butyl tape is the size. Just ignore this post, I'll ask again when I finish reading the whole thing.
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Old 12-14-2009, 06:52 PM   #88
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Andy's idea is the best. Silicone spray would be the way to go. The reason I know that petroleum jelly is a no no on rubber is remembering what it does to swimming pool equipment ( O rings and seals). The petroleum based jelly tends to make rubber swell and deteriorate over a very brief time.
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:08 PM   #89
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Now , I'm gonna ask a very silly question. I, like all of you are facing the same window film issues that you are. Some of my windows are fogged and they are the double pane configuration. Why then, is everyone wanting to jump back into the double pane window configuration when Airstream themselves have abandon the notion of double pane windows for their trailers? They must have found the whole concept too troublesome to continue. Can a double pane window really provide that added energy bonus to an all aluminum trailer? One reason they make cookware out of aluminum is the fact that the metal transfers thermal energy almost as well as copper. I've never owned an Airstream in my life until 2 months ago when I bought this 1976 model. But even the best Airstream would bleed heat in the winter despite the windows, would it not???
At any rate, I'm looking at trying to convert my double pane windows and frames to single pane use.
Now.....treat me gently, I'm new to all this, Right Andy?

Mike
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:24 PM   #90
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At any rate, I'm looking at trying to convert my double pane windows and frames to single pane use.
Now.....treat me gently, I'm new to all this, Right Andy?

Mike
Saaaaay... Fer a new kid, yer pretty smart there, Joe! Well, or so it seems to me.

I mean, after I read that whole story, I had two thoughts:

1. I could never do that, no way, not good enough with my hands or feet
2. It's tooo much blame work anyways!

Now, that's not to say that I don't admire all your guys who have done it, and especially you, Zep, for documenting it so well, but I'm just stating that it's not within my talents to do that kind of "high-level" type work.

So, I'm wondering too, why not just go to one pane? Less pain, n'est-ce pas?
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:17 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joebanjo View Post
... Why then, is everyone wanting to jump back into the double pane window configuration when Airstream themselves have abandon the notion of double pane windows for their trailers? They must have found the whole concept too troublesome to continue. Can a double pane window really provide that added energy bonus to an all aluminum trailer?...
A year ago I had the Sovereign up in Seattle for their unprecedented cold December. Average temperature was about 20 degrees for three weeks. If you've seen my thread on the Sovereign, you'll recall that it has a catalytic heater. All but one of windows were double pane.

The one single pane window collected all the moisture as a thick layer of ice. The double pane windows remained free of condensation. I was very surprised at the stark difference in performance.

It's easy to add BTUs to warm up. It's much harder to subtract them. I'm more interested in comfortable sleeping in hot deserts (Burning Man, etc.). I don't think the double pane window performance is as helpful in hot weather, since a lot of my desert time is boondocking, so the windows are open. But anything that will allow a 13.5K BTU air conditioner to keep up when I've got a hookup in Vegas is OK with me.

Yes, they are a lot of work, but when you break your first inner glass, let me know how much work it is to clean out the shards and then devise some way to properly restrain the outer glass in the thick frame. I'm betting it's almost as much work, maybe more. I'm just saying that converting to single pane may not be "easy." I did it for the one window that I broke accidentally and it was a PITA.

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Old 12-16-2009, 04:31 PM   #92
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Zep, I must admit, you have a good point! Anything that will help that air conditioner
keep up with the hot sun in Las Vegas would be time well spent. I probably won't encounter the temperatures you spoke of here in Kansas. But we do get cold!! The thing that bothers me is the spector of having to deal with the condensation that will likely occur again. Maybe install some kind of small weep hole tube to allow dry air to enter and moist air to escape, some kind of vapor exchange. Something you could attach a small aquarium pump to in the event of moisture between the panes to allow them to dry.....just a thought.
At any rate ..I stand corrected.

I want to explore rebuilding the window as a single pane unit from the ground up. The breaking the inner glass idea may work, but I want to avoid the mess too. Also that 34 year old seal is brittle. I'm looking at removing the panes, keeping the outer (larger of the two) installing a filler in the double pane channel, buying a new single pane "U" gasket and reassembling the window as a single pane. I have found the "U" gasket, and living here in Wichita, I have access to some pretty neat materials as surplus aircraft stores in town have a wealth of materials at my disposal for the forming of a suitable filler.

Lastly, all of you on the forum are a wealth of information.

Many Thanks..

Mike
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:45 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joebanjo View Post
...The thing that bothers me is the spector of having to deal with the condensation that will likely occur again. Maybe install some kind of small weep hole tube to allow dry air to enter and moist air to escape, some kind of vapor exchange. ...
Mike, there are weep holes in the frame, but they are for draining any water that collects in the "U" of the frame, under the seal. They aren't intended to drain the space between the panes. I think you will find that being able to vent the space between the panes will only result in trapped water, or lots of condensation on the glass. You'll never get it out unless you actually have an active ventillation ability, and that would have to be "off" in order to get any performance out of the window. I've found that my rebuild of the windows has been successful, in that I don't have any condensation between the windows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joebanjo View Post
... I'm looking at removing the panes, keeping the outer (larger of the two) installing a filler in the double pane channel, buying a new single pane "U" gasket and reassembling the window as a single pane...
Good luck. My kludged together single pane window has done OK.

If I might be so bold, if you do as you plan, if you have an inner pane left over, I'd sure like to have it. I could make that single pane window back into a double. The down side is, they are HEAVY!

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Old 12-17-2009, 04:18 PM   #94
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Hey Zep

I have the small weep holes in the frames and understand their function. I heard Andy in another thread talk of carefully drilling some holes and inserting a small wire through the butyl rubber to provide for a means of draining and I presume drying moisture caught between two panes of tempered glass. The space between the panes is nothing more than a "dead air" insulator is it not? I thought a preemptive solution to moisture between the panes might be a pre- positioned tube to allow draining and possibly drying a condensation problem one might have in the future. The tube could be sealed when not in use , thereby preserving the "dead air" insulation effect of the additional pane. Your double pane fix is very impressive by the photos ,and after speaking to you , I am re-evaluating my plans. You are persuasive!!

As far as those extra panes go, if I have some left over to sell, (assuming I proceed with my conversion) you will be the first guy I let know. ;-)

Thanks Zep

Mike
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Old 12-17-2009, 09:12 PM   #95
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As far as draining the inner space between the panes, I don't know how big a problem surface tension and capillary action will be. I'm betting that because the holes will be very small, the problems will be big.

Now, if you were forcing some air in at the same time, you might have a lot of success.

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Old 12-18-2009, 06:29 AM   #96
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What about the bugs and dust?

It seems if there is a "weep hole" to let moisture out, dust and spiders will surely find a way in. Then the question becomes "how do you clean between the panes?" Good luck to all!
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Old 12-18-2009, 06:01 PM   #97
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Well, the bugs and dust would be a problem if you left the drain vent open open all the time. Zep does have a point about the hole would be very small. Possibly too small to be of any real value, especially if it were in the form of a small tube. Oh well, it was an honest idea anyway!

Now where did I put that butyl rubber, and that extra pane of glass???

Mike
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Old 04-09-2010, 09:26 PM   #98
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I realize this post is not active, but just wondering if anyone has tried the low e films by 3M as an interior window film? This looks like a great product, and it might even come in a security film, which could be useful if an accident were to occure and you can not do an immediate repair.
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