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07-15-2012, 09:14 PM
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#101
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New Member
1977 31' Sovereign
Scottsdale
, Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3
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Hi there, new to the site (yesterday) and I just got home from looking at a 1976 31' AS Land Yacht Sovereign. It was clean and would make a great project. The only thing I noticed was the windows....all except the front & back were bubbling and flaking in between the panes. The opening windows I see can be repaired, the two on either side of the front window and the smaller non opening windows below the opening windows look like there are a zillion rivets to remove to get them out. (are these what are being refered to as Vista Windows?) Once you remove windows, clean, retint and assemble, do they have to be vacuumed sealed like a normal dual pane? Any responce would be appreciate as this is keeping me from purchasing this (my first) Airstream.
Thanks, Brett (Goin Retro)
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07-15-2012, 10:40 PM
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#102
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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The vista views are the non-openers on top. I don't have a clue what the lower ones are called. These can be repaired, just like the openers, but I think the butyl seal is thicker for them than for the openers. Someone else will have to confirm that, because I just take them out and skin them over.
No, you don't have to vacuum seal the repaired windows. A little bit of dessicant (like half a teaspone) inside will take care of any residual water vapor. The problem is finding someone who will sell you the 3/16" butyl sealing strip.
Zep
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07-18-2012, 10:27 PM
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#103
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Site Team
1974 31' Sovereign
Ottawa
, ON
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 11,219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
The vista views are the non-openers on top. I don't have a clue what the lower ones are called. These can be repaired, just like the openers, but I think the butyl seal is thicker for them than for the openers. Someone else will have to confirm that, because I just take them out and skin them over.
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They're called "stack" windows. I'm going to guess it's because they are always in a stack with other windows.
__________________
“Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.” ...John Wayne...........................
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07-20-2012, 12:49 PM
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#104
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2 Rivet Member
1972 23' Safari
1975 31' Sovereign
San Luis Obispo
, California
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 23
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New Sovergein Old VistaView Problem
Just bought a 1975 center bath Sovereign to add to our 1972 Safari. A little big but love it. It is in very good shape with a few problem areas.. Vista View and Stack windows are my current project.
I am unsure how to proceed. My hope is to end up with single pane windows. I have little interest in doing double pane windows and just want to make them clear. From what I can tell there are no leaks from any of the 5 VV and 3 Stack windows so I would like to not pull the exterior frame.
My hope is to just remove (Naive for sure) the inner glass/ plexi and clean the existing frame and window.
Attached are 3 photos of the VV with the glass inner window and 2 photos of the Stack window with the plexi inner window.
Photo #1 Overview of VV #2 VV with metal frame, soft gasket then inner glass. #3 shows spacer of VV #4 Stack window with metal frame against inner plexi glass. #5 Stack window.
What kind of frame(s) do I have?
Can I just brake out the glass and plexi and clean up? I've read about how to deal with the Plexi at Removing the Inner Pane of Vista View Windows BLOG
In the 70's were there two kinds of frames?
My Stack frames seem different from the VV frames.
Thanks to all that have gone before me, John
__________________
John and Kay
San Luis Obispo, Ca
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07-21-2012, 08:45 AM
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#105
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2 Rivet Member
1976 29' Ambassador
Wichita
, Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 68
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Converting Double pane to single
Greetings..
I faced the same problem with my 1976 Ambassador. The double pane glass had fogged on all the windows. The opening sashes are $450.00 from Airstream, making replacing them pretty darn costly! After purchasing three single pane replacements from Airstream, I found that I could rebuild my old double pane "take offs" to single pane configuration for about $15.00 each.
I felt pretty stupid buying over $1200.00 worth of window sashes from Airstream when I could have easily rebuilt my old ones for a fraction of the cost. Now...that being said, keep in mind that Airstream gave up on the notion of "Double pane" windows for their trailers, long ago. They are troublesome and prone to the same problems the factory models faced ( fogging, pealing, leaking).
My process involves converting the double pane sash channel to a single pane width, purchasing new "U" gasket, and reassembling the sash as a single pane version, using the larger outer pane ( the inner pane is slightly smaller). I have rebuilt all of my takeoffs and now have a surplus of windows for my trailer.
The stack windows on my trailer were of the "plexi-glass" inner pane construction. I simply cut the inner panes out with a small dremel bit, being EXTREMELY!!!!! careful not to touch the outer pane ( doing so will shatter the outer tempered glass faster than a "Bluegrass banjo picker leaving an algebra class"). The space where the inner "Stack" window pane was , would then be sealed with windshield "bedding tape". The process worked for me beautifully with no leaks, no drips...and no errors....:-)
Mike
I have photos of most of the process I will be happy to share with you if you want.
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07-21-2012, 03:35 PM
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#106
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airxtream
Just bought a 1975 ...Sovereign. Vista View and Stack windows are my current project.
...
What kind of frame(s) do I have?
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1975 had dual pane windows. The stack and vv windows had single piece frames, eg, you have to remove the frame from the shell in order to take it apart. You may have an early 1975 model, since you say you have two kinds of frames.
Quote:
Can I just brake out the glass and plexi and clean up? I've read about how to deal with the Plexi at Removing the Inner Pane of Vista View Windows BLOG
In the 70's were there two kinds of frames?
My Stack frames seem different from the VV frames.
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The other kind of frame had an inner ring, like a "C" clip, that could be removed. This allowed you to take out the inner pane without taking the frame out of the shell.
Regardless of type of frame, you can't just take the inner pane out. You need to put in a mechanical gap filler to hold the outer pane against the outside flange of the window. Some folks have cut the plexiglas with a Dremel tool, right along the frame, sanded the edge a bit, and they are done.
Zep
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07-22-2012, 08:50 PM
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#107
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Site Team
1974 31' Sovereign
Ottawa
, ON
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 11,219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
1975 had dual pane windows. The stack and vv windows had single piece frames, eg, you have to remove the frame from the shell in order to take it apart. You may have an early 1975 model, since you say you have two kinds of frames.
The other kind of frame had an inner ring, like a "C" clip, that could be removed. This allowed you to take out the inner pane without taking the frame out of the shell.
Regardless of type of frame, you can't just take the inner pane out. You need to put in a mechanical gap filler to hold the outer pane against the outside flange of the window. Some folks have cut the plexiglas with a Dremel tool, right along the frame, sanded the edge a bit, and they are done.
Zep
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Zep, is this the same for the '74 models? I don't see many changes from '74 to '75.
__________________
“Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.” ...John Wayne...........................
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07-22-2012, 10:09 PM
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#108
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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I don't know how Airtream transitioned from single to dual pane windows. I get the feeling that you could wind up with the older dual pane VV window frames, but with the new dual pane main windows.
Dual pane windows were around for a couple years before the opening windows became dual. For example, my 72 Overlander wing windows are dual pane, as are the VV (with the old clip-style inner retainer), but the openers are single pane.
Zep
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08-02-2012, 02:04 PM
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#109
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Rivet Master
1978 31' Sovereign
Tampa
, Florida
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joebanjo
I have photos of most of the process I will be happy to share with you if you want.
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Please share. I need to tackle all the moveables as well as the stacks and vistas to remove the failed film.
I'd like to get started on this soon but I feel like I'm 85% ready to go... perhaps the remaining 15% will be answered in your photos.
Thanks.
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08-02-2012, 02:09 PM
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#110
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Rivet Master
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
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Does anyone know when they started using real tinted class instead of the film?
Perry
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08-06-2012, 10:15 AM
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#111
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Rivet Master
1978 31' Sovereign
Tampa
, Florida
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 790
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Bump for Joebanjo... hoping he sees this and can share his process.
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10-24-2012, 08:31 AM
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#112
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1 Rivet Member
1973 31' Sovereign
Cornville
, Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 8
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Gasket material source
I am taking on this same effort, where can I buy the gasket material? Also, those plastic window open "hooks" that hold the windows open, I need to replace those also, any idea where to get those??
Jack
mossiyjack@gmail.com
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10-24-2012, 09:06 AM
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#113
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1 Rivet Member
North Charleston
, South Carolina
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 10
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Panama Red has a good, current thread on doing Vista Views and Stack windows.. That combined with this thread are.. what I have hoped for for a long time. Anyway, I did my vista views and stacks.. he provided the tolerances and a supplier for.. drumroll please..
the preshimmed butyl tape.. sold by the roll.. allglassparts.com in Canada. Here is his thread.. http://www.airforums.com/forums/f454...ign-96251.html
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10-24-2012, 01:30 PM
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#114
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossiyjack
I am taking on this same effort, where can I buy the gasket material? Also, those plastic window open "hooks" that hold the windows open, I need to replace those also, any idea where to get those??
Jack
mossiyjack@gmail.com
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By "hooks" do you mean the plastic part on each side that holds the window lift arms in place?
If so, those are called "window position guides".
Andy
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10-25-2012, 07:52 PM
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#116
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Rivet Master
1974 31' Excella 500
Charleston
, South Carolina
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,073
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__________________
As I grow older, I pay less attention to what men say. I just watch what they do.
- Andrew Carnegie
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10-26-2012, 08:56 AM
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#117
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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Yes, WV3866 is the right size. Funny thing, when you look at their web site this is called 1/2", but when you look on the reel of gasket material, it's called 5/8".
Zep
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10-26-2012, 09:31 AM
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#118
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2 Rivet Member
1976 29' Ambassador
Wichita
, Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 68
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They were kind enough to send me a small (6 inch long ) sample, so I could check the fit before I ordered my roll..
Mike
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10-27-2012, 07:06 PM
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#119
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Rivet Master
1974 31' Excella 500
Charleston
, South Carolina
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,073
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
Yes, WV3866 is the right size. Funny thing, when you look at their web site this is called 1/2", but when you look on the reel of gasket material, it's called 5/8".
Zep
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That must mean the inside of the frame is 5/8 and the window width is 1/2. So the 1/8 would be the total thickness of the gasket (1/16 on each side).
So I saw this:
Amazon.com: C.R. LAURENCE A4262 CRL 1/16" Sealstrip Glass Setting Tape: Automotive
I'm going to get a roll of the 1/16 and see if this can be used instead of the foil tape and the gasket.
__________________
As I grow older, I pay less attention to what men say. I just watch what they do.
- Andrew Carnegie
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11-06-2012, 04:49 PM
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#120
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Rivet Master
1974 31' Excella 500
Charleston
, South Carolina
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,073
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Again thanks to Zep leading the way many people, including myself, have taken the plunge on the double pane windows.
In the post above.. I got the window sealing tape. I thought that it might work instead of going with the plastic gasket.
It is the same width of the plastic gasket.
It is thicker (1/8) than the plastic gasket.
It's texture.. it feels a lot like rubber electrical tape (it will stretch).
With the 3/16 shimmed butyl tape (Canadian source in Panama Red's vista thread sells by the roll but shipping is $). Everything fit snugly.
Same as Zep I got the frame hammered back on up to the last 1/2 inch or so. The bar clamps (Harbor Freight) finished squeezing it together very nicely.
The tape is made to trim the excess around the frame after installation.
The tint I got off ebay. 24" by 50' 35% ceramic reflective Charcoal Gray for about $60.
__________________
As I grow older, I pay less attention to what men say. I just watch what they do.
- Andrew Carnegie
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