Panoramic Window (center) water leaks

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Bummer! Did you put any "cure" in the gasket itself (above the yellow arrow in pic 2) where - at least on mine - it seems to be split in the corner?

Yes, I did, Steve. It rained another 1.5 inches last night so I ran out this morning to study it a bit before the sun gets on it...in order to try and find water trails...nothing blatantly obvious. Yes, there is some water back in the frame channel.
I noticed several things, I thought I'd run by you all. Although I don't see evidence of water between the glass and the gasket up the sides and at the top, there is some on the lower horizontal gasket surface and up the sides about 4" or so. Compression of the gasket is good down low (by adjustment of the latches....but up high...say top half of the window, there isn't much gasket compression. There is no adjustment up high, as the window glass is attached to the hinge by fixed depth fasteners. What do you all think about installing some spacer material between the glass and the hinge flange, effectively moving the glass inward and further compressing the gasket?

I also noted that the the screws for the glass-half of the latches at the bottom of the glass are very close to the gasket material itself. Could some of that water that is flooding the bottom horizontal gasket be wicking through the holes in the glass there????? I am also going to take a closer look at the gasket corners at the bottom again, as they are cut, tucked and sealed with (I assume) windshield sealer.

[crispyboy]

Rich,
I went through this nightmare over the past year. I have the same frameless windows that you have.

Here is what I found:

- The front center window was severely warped.
- I replaced the gasket and readjusted the latches - nope
- Shimmed the gasket with 3M VBH tape - nope
- took the glass out of the upper frame and resealed with professional 3M windshield adhesive/sealant - nope
- recaulked all areas of the window frame - some help
- February 2016 I found the front center window shattered into 10,000 tiny pieces.
- Ordered a new window and have been dry ever since (crossing fingers).
- Be certain the caulking around the corners of the gasket is intake and supple.

The water seemed to be coming in around the upper corners of the window.
Check your window for warping. If it is warped get a new one made at a local glass shop. Since my old window was shattered I had to go through a dealer which was a nightmare - took a month and a half due to UPS breaking the first one.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by crispyboy

Rich,
I went through this nightmare over the past year. I have the same frameless windows that you have.

Here is what I found:

- The front center window was severely warped.
- I replaced the gasket and readjusted the latches - nope
- Shimmed the gasket with 3M VBH tape - nope
- took the glass out of the upper frame and resealed with professional 3M windshield adhesive/sealant - nope
- recaulked all areas of the window frame - some help
- February 2016 I found the front center window shattered into 10,000 tiny pieces.
- Ordered a new window and have been dry ever since (crossing fingers).
- Be certain the caulking around the corners of the gasket is intake and supple.

The water seemed to be coming in around the upper corners of the window.
Check your window for warping. If it is warped get a new one made at a local glass shop. Since my old window was shattered I had to go through a dealer which was a nightmare - took a month and a half due to UPS breaking the first one.

Here's where I am. I am confident it isn't coming from up high. Everything is bone dry to the touch on the surface of the gasket and the frame flange, except, naturally, at the bottom. My seal is making good contact and compression at the bottom and seems to be pretty uniform all the way across and up the sides. (you can tell by color of contact area). BUT, I noticed that the latch bracket is too low (or the seal is too high) and the seal is actually held off the glass at the very top of the seal. Probably about 75% of the seal width still makes good compression with the glass. Then I noticed the factory tape between the latch bracket and glass has scooted in an upside down "U" fashion due to road motion or whatever on the streetside. The curbside looked fine, but was also holding the seal off the glass at the top edge of the seal.

I decided to remove them and inspect and re-affix with VHB (30# stuff). The curbside was fine, however I found moisture under the streeside one.

I'm not confident this is the answer, as I still can't figure how the water is getting to that top of the seal where it is being held off the glass by the bracket.

[SteveSueMac]

I'm puzzled too. I'm going to have to get a hose on it starting from the bottom of the window up to the top and see where water's coming in.

Some pics for whatever it's worth...

1) curbside bottom - I've put "the cure" along the entire bottom of the gasket the length of the window and in the corners of the gasket and other areas dznf0g mentioned.



2) street side bottom - same sitch.



3) curbside top - I didn't put anything in here because frankly, it looks like it could take the whole bottle! This looks like a good culprit. The "mitre angle" in the corner looks like it doesn't connect and you can see how the gasket on the right top side of the pic almost seems to be coming off the frame.



4) street side top - roughly the same sitch though the gasket doesn't appear to be pulling away from the frame.



I've got a feeling mine is a gasket problem....what do others think?

[dkottum]

Even after JC did the Seal Tech test, found bubbles coming from the gasket/glass interface, and tightened the latches we occasionally get a little water in the rear channel when there is heavy, wind-blown rain onto the direction of the window. Not enough to flood the channel, i have sealed the channel ends, or enough to register any moisture probing the floor below with my moisture detection meter.

I think it's the gasket or window not fitting together well enough, thanks to Rich and Steve for posting your experience and efforts tracking it down.

Will continue to follow this helpful thread.

[dznf0g]

Steve, those areas became suspect to me today. Although I have zero moisture inboard of the glass to seal seam, I began to study the gasket structure. I think they are straight pieces off a bulk roll with self adhesive on the back. I think AS just butts them together and slaps a bit of seal adhesive to the corners and calls it good. I wondered how well the back face was sealed. The only thing I could come up with was the lower corners were leaking UP and over the aluminum and into the channel. Since I have already ordered seal material from VTS, I decided to experiment. I put some small slits in the lower horizontal seal and water ran out from the inside of the "d" cavity. I believe water enters in the top corners, runs down and fills the lower seal and backs up, up the sides until pressure forces it out the rear of the lower corner tops and into the channel. That's why it takes a long or hard rain to fill the trough. I think relief holes in the bottom seal edge, below window glass may be the answer.

[SteveSueMac]

Am I seeing this wrong or is the gasket 4 separate pieces mitered in the corners with 4 seams? Shouldn't it be a single piece?

If you do drain holes, could you include a detailed pic of location? I think they may work as an interim solution but I bet there's a longer term answer with a different gasket. Just not sure what that might be.

On Edit: and that may explain why it's dry up top for you - the water isn't going to stay there, it's going to seek a bottom so the top to mid of the gasket will probably be dry a day later....

[dznf0g]

That's what I am thinking! They certainly are not "welded" automotive gaskets. I just rolled up the lower gasket with my thumb and cut about 1/4" slits about 6" from the corners, and below the glass edge.

[dznf0g]

BTW, all my other windows have radiused corners and are a single piece gasket with the ends in the lower center. None accumulate water in their channel.

[SteveSueMac]

Thanks. Are you able to get water on it from the top and see if it makes its way out of the drain holes?

[dznf0g]

Not really, because that area between the lower seal and the outer frame holds water anyway. Also silt came out the slits, indicating water and dirt intrusion over a long time.

[dznf0g]

Just an update, but not a declaration of victory yet. I decided to perform more major surgery, as the "patching" sealing wasn't going to cut it. Some facts found thus far:

I decided to replace the seal. As this is a square window frame, AS just cut four pieces of medium D seal and mitered the corners.

1) As I suspected, AS installed the four pieces with the self adhesive into the frame and then just smeared some weatherstrip adhesive on the outside of the seal. There is ZERO sealer in the seal joints on the flat (rear) side of the "D". This allows water to both pass directly through the corners as well as pass into the interior of the "d" seal and run to the bottom corners of the seal, which is also not sealed on the backside. This obviously allows water a passage....and big ones....to the interior side of the glass to seal interface.
2) when I replaced the seal material procured from VTS I did two things; a) used weatherstrip adhesive all along the outside perimeter of the seal b) used a contiguous strip all around the window with the seam at the center bottom of the window. I left the seam butted but UNSEALED for a drain. The corners were given an extra amount of adhesive in order to accommodate the "bunching " of the seal making a sharp 90* turn.

I will post more definitive info with pictures, if/when I see improvement/elimination of water intrusion, but I feel I'm getting somewhere.

Other noted AS mistakes in design/assembly: The top of the glass does not make adequate pressure contact to the seal, as the hinge assembly holds the glass too far away from the seal contact surface, IMO. I have an idea for a fairly simple fix, but it will involve removal of the glass from its hinge half (not done yet, so I'll hold off judgement). The glass also sits a bit too low in the window frame (no fix for that) leaving the top contact patch somewhat smaller than the sides and bottom.

BTW, you can adjust the lower latches all day long in the hopes if stopping water, but with the seals open and the top contact patch inadequacies, you're accomplishing nothing.

[dznf0g]

Update. In addition to post #32, I came back and filled the "baby butt crack" in the top corners of the outside face of the seal (created by bending, not cutting, the seal for the 90* turn) with Permatex Ultra Black RTV. I chose this sealer because it stays more flexible than the weatherstrip adhesive. I worked it into the bunched corner void and covered with waxed paper and closed the window, in order to get a good uniform surface to the sealer/seal to glass interface. This worked....except the waxed paper adhered permanently to the RTV. I thought of using some sort of release agent due to the suspected fear of adherence to the waxed paper, but couldn't think of one which I was comfrotable that it wouldn't affect the sealer in a negative way. So not there is a bit of waxed paper between the glass and the RTV in the top corners....BUT....it has rained over 2" in the last 24 hours and the window channel is bone dry!

[dznf0g]

Well, some 6 weeks later, a 3000 mile trip, and a lot of rain later....and....not a drop of water in the channel since the gasket mod/replacement. I now declare victory.

[SteveSueMac]

Gonna have to check this out. Thanks!

[dznf0g]

I just realized I never closed this one out, as a question came up in another fresh thread. Still bone dry after more than a year.

This is what the original gasket looked like. Cut top corner allows water inside the hollow gasket and delivers it to the lower window channel.



And two pics of the retention method while sealing in place.

[youngpeck]

Looks nice. Great idea using the clips.

[crispyboy]

Good job on a fix for the window leak. Our front window has been dry for the past year and I am scared to open the front window figuring it will start the leaking all over again. The biggest problem seems to be that the window doesn't have equal pressure all the way around the gasket. Airtream needs to come up with a better frame, hinge and a more thick and supple gasket.

[woodytwo]

Haven't read through all the replies but I have had 4 30ft classics (currently 2006) over the last 20 years and all have had this leak problem with the front window that opens. Water would get in the channel at the bottom and eventually leak to the inside wall below the corners of the window. Being somewhat lazy or just not as patient as most of you, I solved the problem by drilling a small hole in the exterior corners of the window frame. Also sealed the inside corner of the frame as most of you have done. So when water gets in the lower channel of the frame it leaks out over the outside of the trailer.