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Old 06-07-2006, 08:25 PM   #1
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Fogged Thermopane Window Fix!

NO!! Not A VistaView!!!
Has ANYBODY actually taken out the old springloaded punch, and broken the inner pane out of - say a Big Ol late 70's Caravaner curbside window - or the door window??? Has the outer pane stayed in after some tough road miles?
My eyes are weary from scouring the forums - maybe I missed it! Lots of talk about doing it " I'm going to do it next weekend" - There is a post from 12/04
was gonna do it - no answer to that post.
Question Is? Anybody out there doing it???
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Old 06-07-2006, 09:29 PM   #2
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double to single pane

It seems to me I have read a few posts on Tom Patterson's VAC list on this topic. If I remember correctly, some folks have successfully broken the inner glass and become single pane (pain) trailers. I think some also formed new inner windows of plexiglass. Who ever figures out how to do this trick to get back to the original two pane clear windows will garner fame if not fortune far and wide. I thought of breeding beetles to eat mylar and then introducing them between the panes to eat the deteriorating mylar, but then...what if they died in there? It's a real tough problem in my estimation.
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Old 06-07-2006, 10:21 PM   #3
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And the Silence was Deafening...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald
NO!! Not A VistaView!!!
Has ANYBODY actually taken out the old springloaded punch, and broken the inner pane out of - say a Big Ol late 70's Caravaner curbside window - or the door window??? Has the outer pane stayed in after some tough road miles?
My eyes are weary from scouring the forums - maybe I missed it! Lots of talk about doing it " I'm going to do it next weekend" - There is a post from 12/04
was gonna do it - no answer to that post.
Question Is? Anybody out there doing it???
... just as it was when I asked the question. If anyone has done it, they apparently are not a member of this forum. I haven't screwed up the courage. I'm parked outside, and bubbled dual panes are better than no windows at all.
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Old 06-08-2006, 08:37 AM   #4
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Ken & Excella CM,
"The Silence Was Deafening" Boy, I guess - over two years! Looks like a much bigger problem than I thought. I'm going to check with Inland RV on new replacement Single pane units - so if you hear a loud scream & ambulance sirens - it's me.
Doesn't seem to be a concensus on drilled frame holes - factory or DIY- either. Don
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Old 06-08-2006, 09:25 AM   #5
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Donald,
In addition to fixing the Vista Views and corner windows, I fixed the openable front thermo pane window on my 75. It is assembled with internal corner brackets not unlike a storm window in your house. I drilled out the rivets that hold the frame together took it apart and removed the inner pane. Then I reriveted the frame back together, reglued the outer pane in place with silicone and used wooden shims to hold the glass in place till the silicone dried. Left them for a week. If your window is like the corner windows and not openable then do the center punch trick and break the inner pane with the automatic center punch. Use duct tape to hold the zillion little bits of glass together when you break it. (Gloves and Safety Glasses!) After I got the inner window and metal spacer/pane seperator taken out I spent some time scraping and cleaning ALL the old Vulkem out of the frame. Kind of a PIA - working from the inside and then the outside but if you take it slow and easy you can do it without breaking the outer pane. Mineral spirits helps a lot.
Then I reglued the outer pane back in place using clear silicone and wooden shims to push it out toward the frame. Don't worry about all the oozing silicone. Can be cleaned off later with a razor blade. It is a little scary to BREAK a window on your AS but I did it and now have wonderfully clear views of the great outdoors. Been 3 years now and no leaks.
Jerry
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Old 06-08-2006, 09:27 AM   #6
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Has anyone used a plunge router (or dremmel with the depth set attachment) to puncture the inner pane? Several holes would weaken the glass and allow for earier removal pf the pane.
Keith
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Old 06-08-2006, 10:32 AM   #7
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Keith,
The interior pane is tempered safety glass, it will shatter instantaneously with contact from a router bit - Dangerous idea!!! The spring loaded Punch, used to break the inner Vista View and inner corner panes, would be the thing to use. I believe the reason no ones doing it is - It is a large unit engineered to havetorsional strength from two panes. I think the fear is that one pane would flex too much? The new repacements are single pane and engineered for that(thicker glass? - heavier channel?)Don
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Old 06-08-2006, 10:43 AM   #8
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Fogged Windows

Ultradog,
You are very close to the solution with your front window fix. I'm not sure though about the safety of just having the outside pane-is that tempered safety glass too? I'd sure want a window(rock) shield though.
The big openable Caravaner side windows are what I'm referring to. Rounded corners, and not constructed as simply as front center. Thanks! Don
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Old 06-17-2006, 08:26 PM   #9
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Mission Accomplished!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald
NO!! Not A VistaView!!!
Has ANYBODY actually taken out the old springloaded punch, and broken the inner pane out of - say a Big Ol late 70's Caravaner curbside window - or the door window??? Has the outer pane stayed in after some tough road miles?
My eyes are weary from scouring the forums - maybe I missed it! Lots of talk about doing it " I'm going to do it next weekend" - There is a post from 12/04
was gonna do it - no answer to that post.
Question Is? Anybody out there doing it???
Well I've done it! Thanks to RobertSunrus, who suggested the CP-79 Automatic Center Punch, I've successful broken the inner pane of a dual pane window and cleaned the film from the inside of the outer pane.

I learned a great deal and exposed a few myths.

Lesson #1: Myth, "The inner pane of a dual pane window is tempered safety glass." Fact: The inner pane on a dual pane window is not tempered safety glass. It is an extremely strong, heat treated glass, but it does not behave like tempered safety glass. When it finally breaks, the shards are extremely sharp, and there are hundreds of small, glass splinters. THIS IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS GLASS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, I found the easiest way to safely break tempered glass is to use a tool called an "automatic center punch" Made by General # CP-79. Put the point of this tool up against the tempered glass, push the handle toward the glass, click, the window instantly shatters. Done deal, two seconds. Note: please wear safety glasses.
Lesson #2: Since it's not tempered safety glass, it won't shatter with one click of the automatic center punch (ACP). It takes about five punches in the same place just to get started. At that point the ACP will plunge through the inner pane and strike the outer pane with great force. To make matters worse, you must repeat this process over and over as you break the window.

Lesson #3: It takes a very tedious hour to break the shards away and pick the embedded pieces out of the bedding putty.

LEsson #4: Scraping the film off the inside of the outer pane is really easier than I thought it would be.

Pictures show before, during, after.

One window done, five to go.
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Old 06-19-2006, 12:01 PM   #10
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Klevan , congrats , knew you could do it . Just about the same process as the double glass pane vistaview .
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Old 06-19-2006, 05:51 PM   #11
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Way to go Ken!!

You are now officially "THE MAN" Sounds like a nerve-racking process; and better use heavy duty gloves, eye protection, denim jacket etc.! Did you tape off the interior? First hits along a diagonal C to C line, up near the top maybe 4" from C(corner)? Getting too technical, but little details might = success. Keep us up to date on your progress.
We shouldn't assume all inner pane glass the same year to year, so anyone should proceed with utmost caution and safety in mind, as you have! No routers or drill bits, please> just my take on it! Kudos!! Don
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Old 06-19-2006, 07:52 PM   #12
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Window #2: Lessons Learned

Window # 1 was done with the window installed in the trailer. I've had some trouble with that hinge, so I didn't want to risk removing it.

Window #2 was done on the work bench... much easier
Below is a picture of my most important purchase since the automatic center punch (ACP):

These gloves are just the ticket for working the jagged pieces of glass out of the frame.
Lessons of the Day:
1. Don't cover the window with clear package sealing tape as I did on Window #1. That actually made it more difficult to deliberately break and remove glass.
2. Do wear safety gloves and face shield.
3. Do start in corner with ACP. Remember, it will take up to five clicks in one spot to break the glass, and the punch will plunge through the inner pane and strike the outer pane if you aren't careful. If you start in a corner, the bedding compound between the panes will dampen the force of the punch against the outer pane.
4. Once you break away enough glass, slip a heavy plastic shield (I used a body putty spreader available at Checker Auto) between the panes and work your way to the center of the pane with the ACP.
5. Once the inner pane is completely removed and all glass shards have been removed, place the window assembly concave side up and spray tinting film with Gila Window Film Removal Solution from Home Depot. Cover immediately with plastic trash bag and let stand for 30 minutes.
6. Scrape film from window with single edge razor blade scraper.
7. Remember, the inner panes of these 1976 dual pane windows are not Tempered Safety Glass. This process produces extremely jagged, pieces of broken glass and very sharp splinters. Wear safety glasses, or a face shield, and special gloves.
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Old 12-18-2007, 06:59 PM   #13
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Hi Ken ,
There is also a gasket material from Can-am in Canada to go back in where the putty and inside window were , to take up that space left.

Robin Stone
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Old 12-18-2007, 07:02 PM   #14
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Hi Ken ,

I meant Donald on that last post , a thousand pardons.

Robin Stone
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