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**moosetags** · 09-09-2006, 07:23 AM

I pay for WiFi Web access when I have to, like Hotspotzz at campgrounds. If I can find some access out in the air while traveling, I use it. Using a signal in the air is not hacking into someone's computer.

bryanl · 09-09-2006, 08:30 AM

"Using a signal in the air is not hacking into someone's computer."

OK. that's another one of the sort of "let's just pretend case law doesn't exist" or "I know better than the experts" -

Is this really a good way to approach things? Or would it be better to acknowledge in our hearts that we are using something that is not ours? When we do accept that we are using a 'gift' of someone else, we are more likely to use it responsibly - such as those who move to their own facilities when they have a lot of traffic.

Why is there such a contrary response to a simple request to respect others when we take advantage of something of theirs? Why is there such sensitivity that 'ethics police' came up in the first place? Are such feelings trying to tell us something about ourselves?

wahoonc · 09-09-2006, 08:43 AM

My take is: If you don't want somebody using it...LOCK IT UP! Next thing you know I am going to get arrested for stopping front of a store and using the light from the window lighting to read a set of directions.

I don't actively seek unsecured wireless systems, but have used them on occasion, for minimum activity. I use a cellular modem when traveling, motel/campground wifi when there. If you leave the keys in your car and the motor running you are asking for someone to take it for a ride. Illegal...yes, is it going to happen...more than likely. Too many people in this day and age are lazy and irresponsible and want to foist the results of that off on other people and the government.

Aaron

**moosetags** · 09-09-2006, 08:59 AM

Some people need to get a life. Maybe we should all get together and pressure the Federal law enforcement agencies to drop this terrorist thing and concentrate their efforts on investigating and apprehending the vile criminals who are using wireless internet without permission. I will continue to use any free internet signal that I can find, and will not be expecting the police to kick down my door any time now or in the future.

bryanl · 09-09-2006, 10:50 AM

Quote:

If you don't want somebody using it...LOCK IT UP!

I guess one more shot at devil's advocate here ... ;-)

Think about the implications of this for your campsite. Do you lock up everything all the time or do you leave your chair out on occasion? Are you meticulous about locking your tow vehicle and trailer and every compartment door and the hitch assembly and propane tanks and so on all the time? How about your wallet, is it always locked up? Yes this is the 'reduce to the absurd' argument but the question is how far to go that way now that you brought it up.

Quote:

Some people need to get a life

What we'd all like is a life where we don't have to continually protect ourselves from our friends and neighbors; where we can have trust and mutual respect for each other's property; where our concerns are not minimized or subject to the bigotry of others; where our ideas are discussed without the ad hominem;

I think idea to go back to 9/10 thinking is interesting, too. But that's another argument for another venue.

It is also interesting that promoting neighborliness and respect for other's property brings in images of police kicking in doors.

AirConditioner · 09-09-2006, 04:26 PM

I've been using Verizon wireless broadband for a few years with a Novatel card inserted in my laptop. I have never been without signal. I also use a 5db gain antenna to get a better signal in the AS and cellular amps to increase range to over 40 miles. Using a 5db gain WiFi antenna showed dozens of signals where only two or three showed without it. Suggestion: use WiFi-G, and WEP setting for minimum protection, and turn off your "broadcast" feature. For more details on protecting yourself online with WiFi and in general check out www.nist.gov and search on WiFi security. For cell phone amplifiers and antennas check out www.wilsoncellular.com for long-range cellular use.

silverback · 09-09-2006, 04:48 PM

You that live in CA and borrow WiFi access need to be aware of this - http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/bill/asm/...ended_sen.html

n2916s · 09-09-2006, 07:50 PM

Sitting at Airstream in Jackson Center at this very moment enjoying my free campsite with free wi-fi.

Of course, I spent $1100 yesterday on this and that..............

mike

Coastalview · 09-09-2006, 10:20 PM

Well, I'll go speak with my neighbor and see if they can turn down the music and their wi-fi. Maybe while I'm there, I'll ask if anything of mine is making it over the fence on their side.

Condoluminum · 09-11-2006, 12:29 PM

For the record, I too approached Rich, asked for permission to enjoy his broadcast WiFi down the row at Salem, and was thankful for the opportunity.. Not sure how many others did, but Leipper, Rog and I were trying to be good citizens...

I've followed the "California WiFi Protection Act", and it is an interesting lesson in government... What is says is that roughly a real small number of the estimated 16 Million households and small businesses using WiFi routers they've set up know how to set the security features... (Our home model has 64 character WEP key and disabled broadcast also...). Accordingly, the legislature is mandating a "sticker" on new products and notice to consumers to tell them about security, and mandating that manufacturers make some security the default or make it easier to activate... Doesn't do much for the existing 16 million routers... I give them credit for not attempting to mandate that existing owners read their manuals and turn on the security features.. Many millions of Californians might lose their internet access...

Yes, taking "bandwidth" is inappropriate, though if free and unsecured and broadcast into public spaces, an argument can be made that the owner was willing to share.. Hacking or eavesdropping or messing with the host's computer and data is clearly over the line into criminal behavior..

John McG

Minnie's Mate · 09-11-2006, 01:19 PM

Wow, the OP asked about places that offer free WiFi and he got a lesson in manners, ethics, and law, all in one thread

.

I think when one tells of a "trick" to get free WiFi, it's up to the reader to decide if that's the right course for him/her to take. Having said that, I will only take advantage of free WiFi where it is offered for free and under the conditions that it is offered

. That is, when I feel the need to be connected while trying to get away from it all!

wahoonc · 09-11-2006, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leipper

I guess one more shot at devil's advocate here ... ;-)

Think about the implications of this for your campsite. Do you lock up everything all the time or do you leave your chair out on occasion? Are you meticulous about locking your tow vehicle and trailer and every compartment door and the hitch assembly and propane tanks and so on all the time? How about your wallet, is it always locked up? Yes this is the 'reduce to the absurd' argument but the question is how far to go that way now that you brought it up.

My wallet is not in a public area. If someone goes into my house and used my internet it would be one thing, if someone goes into my vehicle and gets something out they have crossed a line. Now let me ask this, if you are sitting in your car in a parking lot with the stereo turned up loud and I happen to like the same music and stop to listen...is that stealing? Maybe I need to be turned in for not buying the same CD you are listening to? To me if you take reasonable steps to secure something then it is a crime to take advantage of it. If you take no steps, no crime. If I am walking my dog past your house and get water out of the tap attached to you house it is an issue, if my dog drinks water that has ponded in the street because of your leaky tap or sprinkler system it is not an issue. IMHO if I can access your unsecured wireless from a public area it should not be a crime. In the case of Rich's system I think asking would be the right thing to do. It is alittle bit of a different situation. However he could secure it if he chose to.

Aaron

2airishuman · 09-11-2006, 01:55 PM

hi free signal fighters...

i'm not a fan of any government mandates that attempt to overcome individual laziness, or personally gained ignorance...

perhaps the first batch of folks going wifi were unaware...but come on now...
does anyone now not know about this..
isn't their responibility to understand the most basic issues IF they are gonna buy and use the tool?

for me the issue is much like aaron has described...

the 'expectation of privacy' concept from law...

if i set up a wireless router with 300ft of signal range and a public pathway cuts thought that range...i have no right or expectation for privacy.

if i set up a wireless router with 300ft of range and my property lines are 500 ft outside this range...well then i do have some expectation of privacy...one would need to tresspass to get a signal...

someone standing in the street watching me dance around naked isn't peeping...
coming up to my house, using a ladder or otherwise trying to overcome the basic privacy i establish is the issue...
and usually i pull the curtains before putting on the birthday suit!

buying a wireless router doesn't buy me exclusive use of the airspace...that is why encryption or vpns are an option...these are the curtains and blinds...

now back to this 'asking rich' to use his signal issue...it's rich c right?

rich carpenter had a booster that pulled in the already available wifi signal for on site wbcci users...it wasn't his signal to give away to others...

by this i mean that if someone not registered for the rally asked rich...that would be an issue...

for his paying neighbors....well he just saved them walking closer to the router...

so asking his permission to piggyback wasn't how offical access to the signal was gained...paying for the rally was the ticket.

cheers

2air'

enduroryda · 09-11-2006, 05:37 PM

Speaking of wireless..... when we were on vacation last month one of my sons buddies had a Playstation PSP handheld game....It had a built in wireless connection that I was able to log on to Airstream Forums from the condo with to get my fix! Very cool

Condoluminum · 09-11-2006, 06:47 PM

Minnie's Mate.. That's what I meant when I commented how much fun this was...

Aaron.. Your response actually passes legal muster as well, since accessing "computers" without permission is restricted, but law on accessing "access to a computer" is still developing...

And 2Air... I hardly know how to respond to the analogy of dancing in your birthday suit, so I shall pass, though the concept of trespass for access being bad is also correct... And (having gotten to know Rich C at Salem and being a great admirer..) his WiFi was coming not from the modest WBCCI setup in the little press room behind the stage... It was coming dirctly from his Verizon Wireless Data card attached to his Apple laptop, and then shared with a repeater for those of us in the back section of Blue 1... He began with password protection, and then graciously removed it to allow his neighbors complimentary access. All those who took their laptops to the fairgrounds press room to use WBCCI WiFi did indeed contribute to the costs through their ticket to the International Rally..

The world might be a better place if our government mandated that we ALL read our instruction manuals every time we gain a new gadget...

John McG
(an actual intellectual property attorney...)

2airishuman · 09-11-2006, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Condoluminum

richc....his WiFi was coming dirctly from his Verizon Wireless Data card attached to his Apple laptop, and then shared with a repeater for those of us in the back section of Blue 1... He began with password protection, and then graciously removed it to allow his neighbors complimentary access. John McG

hi john...well thats it then...
clearly i misunderstood what he was doing...even after he explained it to me.

that also explains why the linksys thingie i rushed out to purchase didn't help...despite his recommendation for the product...

i wanted something to boost my reception of the local wifi signal
and the item i purchased was to increase the range of a wireless router...
and didn't help me one bit....so i was very confused about that....again not his fault...

i wonder what version charged him for his mini hotspot on those days?

thanks john mcg!
2air'

niniinla · 09-11-2006, 10:05 PM

Sprint offers wireless internet

Condoluminum · 09-12-2006, 03:40 PM

The Verizon Wireless Data card is an account like a cell phone account that is upgraded for data, and equivalent to required service for Blackberry-type devices... I think he said it cost between $75 and $85/month...

Anywhere he has Verizon service he has high-speed internet service, and he can then put it through his WiFi router... Sprint and Cingular also offer similar service these days, and Sprint is advertising fast speeds heavily..

I think the "repeater" Rich recommended is for use with a weak but perceptible signal to make it stronger and more reliable. The total range of most WiFi routers is only 250 to 350 feet.. (Wait 'til WiMax gets going in 2007...). The WBCCI signal over in the Pavillion was so weak it wouldn't have been accessible via repeater from beyond the immediate vicinity of the amphitheater... When Rich moved his repeater outside his trailer, we could easily use our laptop inside our trailer 8 spaces down the row...

John McG

wahoonc · 09-12-2006, 03:56 PM

We use the cellular modem cards at work. Currently we have Altell, Verizion and Sprint. Sprint and Verizion appear to have the best coverage. Verizon has the speed edge IF YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT AREA. They have the best coverage on the EVDO which is super fast and in some cases as fast or faster than T-1

Sprint comes in second on the fast and coverage. I use the Sprint, my connection speeds are typically in the the 120kbps (about double a good dialup) range. I can usually do better on a free WiFi network. FWIW I am currently in the Greenville, SC area. In the downtown area the city has provided free wireless. Several of the restaurants in the area have it too. FWIW Atlanta Bread Co seems to be providing it at a lot of their locations.

Aaron

campadk · 09-12-2006, 05:42 PM

This summer we have 'sniffed' about for a wireless connection to do a quick check on email in all sorts of places. It's amazing just how many connections are available, even in a small village out in the boonies.

Our favorite time was sniffing for a connection from our boat this summer. We would motor slowly along the lake 'looking' for a connection, then I'd yell out 'anchors away!' My wife would toss the anchor and voila, we'd be all set to do a quick check on email...

I'll be spending some time this winter investigation a full-time solution... probably a bi-directional satellite system. Anybody have such a solution that works well?