Any Questions for Dometic?

[SilverRanger]

Lew,
No questions for Dometic, but thanks for the opportunity. So far, I'm really pleased with their products. My reefer in the 05 Bambi has been operating nearly non stop for 2 years with no problems. As I'm sure you're aware, this model has no temperature adjustment, and sometimes the ability to cool varies on hot summers days. I know you have installed several of the fan kits from Snyders, and was wondering if my reefer in the 05 Bambi would have to be slid out for the installation.

Thanks.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

lewster, can you tell me where to look. I made a half hearted attempt and did not find it. I will look in the daylight.

[lewster]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

lewster, can you tell me where to look. I made a half hearted attempt and did not find it. I will look in the daylight.

They are usually found on a label on the door post of the fridge interior, on a label at the back of the refer box, or sometimes, hidden on an inaccessible and not-readily-visible spot like an outer side wall or rear outside panel.

Happy Hunting!!!

[68 Overlander]

Lew, this reminds me of when inland asked if they had any questions for Airstream before a trip there. You are handling it much better.
There is a question that I hope you have time to investigate. There was and still is a fire recall and I'm not sure if the Airstream communinity is fully aware of the significance.
There are 77 pages of stuff to sift through but here is page one from the moderator at RV.net that has done a great job:

Click here to go directly to Updates.
Update Number 1 Nov 23, 2006
Update Number 2 Dec 5, 2006
Update Number 3 Jan 10, 2007
Update Number 4 Jan 19, 2007 - Recall Instructions - click here: Dometic Recall You need your model and serial numbers.
Update Number 5 Feb 13, 2007 - Added links to new info on the NHTSA website including the info/form for claiming reimbursement for a failure. These are at the end of the post below where all the updates are posted.

Also, edited the below Recall to include the change made prior to the Dec 5 update showing the proposed remedy.

Below is information from the NHTSA website on a recall of certain Dometic refrigerators. This recall is in its very early stages, and there is no resolution in place as of Nov 1, 2006.

From the NHTSA website:

Dometic Recall NHTSA Campaign ID 06E076000

Make / Models : Model/Build Years:
DOMETIC / NDR1062 9999
DOMETIC / RM2652 9999
DOMETIC / RM2662 9999
DOMETIC / RM2663 9999
DOMETIC / RM2852 9999
DOMETIC / RM2862 9999
DOMETIC / RM3662 9999
DOMETIC / RM3663 9999
DOMETIC / RM3862 9999
DOMETIC / RM3863 9999

Manufacturer : DOMETIC CORPORATION

NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 06E076000 Mfg's Report Date : AUG 28, 2006

Component: EQUIPMENT: RECREATIONAL VEHICLE

Potential Number Of Units Affected : 926877

Summary:
CERTAIN DOMETIC TWO-DOOR REFRIGERATORS MANUFACTURED BETWEEN APRIL 1997 AND MAY 2003: SERIAL NOS.
713XXXXX THROUGH 752XXXXX;
801XXXXX THROUGH 852XXXXX;
901XXXXX THROUGH 952XXXXX;
001XXXXX THROUGH 052XXXXX;
101XXXXX THROUGH 152XXXXX;
201XXXXX THROUGH 252XXXXX;
301XXXXX THROUGH 319XXXXX,
INSTALLED IN CERTAIN RECREATIONAL VEHICLES AS ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT AND SOLD AS AFTERMARKET EQUIPMENT. A FATIGUE CRACK MAY DEVELOP IN THE BOILER TUBE WHICH MAY RELEASE A SUFFICIENT AMOUNT OF PRESSURIZED COOLANT SOLUTION INTO AN AREA WHERE AN IGNITION SOURCE (GAS FLAME) IS PRESENT.

Consequence:
THE RELEASE OF COOLANT UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS COULD IGNITE AND RESULT IN A FIRE.

Remedy:
THE VEHICLE MANUFACTURERS WILL NOTIFY OWNERS OF RECREATIONAL VEHICLES THAT HAD THE REFRIGERATORS INSTALLED AS ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT AND DOMETIC WILL NOTIFY OWNERS OF THE AFTERMARKET REFRIGERATORS. DOMETIC WILL INSTALL A SECONDARY BURNER HOUSING FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN BETWEEN APRIL AND JUNE 2007. OWNERS MAY CONTACT DOMETIC AT 888-446-5157.

Notes:
CUSTOMERS MAY CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY: 1-800-424-9153); OR GO TO http://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV.

The following is extracted from the notice provided by Dometic to the NHTSA dated 8/26/06:

The potential defect is associated with cooling unit at the back of the refrigeration cabinet.

A fractional percentage of the potentially affected refrigerators have experienced a fatigue crack that may develop in the boiler tube in the area of the weld between the boiler tube and the heater pocket. A fatigue crack may release a sufficient amount of pressurized coolant solution into an area where an ignition source (gas flame) is present. Dometic's investigation has shown that a simulated release of cooling solution (refrigerant) in the area of the boiler, under certain conditions, could be ignited by the presence of an open flame. A boiler fatigue crack with the loss of cooling solution without ignition would result in a non-operational refrigerator that is not a safety issue. Under certain conditions, the released coolant could ignite and result in a fire. In order to have a fire, at a minimum, all of the following conditions must exist:

• 1. The refrigerator must be on and normally operating and gas burner must be lit;
  2. 'There must be an oversized heating element in the refrigerator;
  3. The boiler tube must develop a throughway fatigue crack of a
  specific size;
  4. There must be a release of the cooling solution at a rate which will
  allow the accumulation of the cooling solution at a concentration within its range of flammability; and
  5. There must be ignition source (gas flame) present.

If any of these conditions are not present, a release of the cooling solution will not result in a fire.

In April of 1997 Dometic modified the design of the affected refrigerators by increasing the wattage of the heating element from 325 watts to 354 watts. All production of the affected units from April 1997 through May of 2003 utilized the 354 watt heating element. In May of 2003, in order to improve the operating life of the refrigerators, Dometic returned to the use of the 325 watt heating element which it continues to use today. It is now believed that the use of the higher wattage heater contributed to abnormal fatigue in the boiler tube.

The products in question are all refrigerators used in the original manufacture of recreation vehicles or as replacement equipment for recreation vehicles. The total population of refrigerators potentially containing the defect is 926,877. Dometic estimates a potential maximum incident rate of 0.01% related to boiler fatigue cracks that leak and may result in a fire. There have been no incidents of injury or death related to the affected population of Dometic refrigerators.

Dometic became aware of the occurrence of fires which may have involved their products and retained an independent engineering testing laboratory to fully evaluate and investigate any potential defect in their refrigerators which might result in a fire. A number of returned units were analyzed and microscopic fatigue cracks which could release coolant into the area of the burner were identified in the boiler tube metal in the area of the weld between the heater pocket and boiler tube. Tests simulating the cracks were conducted the week of August 18, 2006 and confirmed a possible cause of fire in the refrigerators under certain conditions. These test results prompted the preparation of this notice.

Dometic continues to gather information on the potential defect and will forward additional relevant information as it becomes available.

Dometic has not yet identified a proposed remedy for the potential defect. Dometic will continue a testing program designed to identify and evaluate possible remedies. This evaluation will take place both in the United States and in Sweden. Once a remedy has been identified, Dometic will initiate or participate in a remedy campaign initiated by the original equipment manufacturers and aftermarket suppliers who have purchased, sold, and distributed these products. A list of original equipment manufacturers and aftermarket suppliers to whom Dometic has sold the potentially defective refrigerators is being prepared and will be provided to the NHTSA upon its
completion.

The following is extracted from the NHTSA response on 9/18/06:

Please provide the following additional information and be reminded of the following requirements:

• Dometic must provide an estimated dealer notification date as well as an owner notification date including the day, month, and year. You are required to submit a draft owner notification letter to this office no less than five days prior to mailing it to the customers. Also, copies of all notices, bulletins, dealer notifications, and other communications that relate to this recall, including a copy of the final owner notification letter and any subsequent owner follow-up notification letter(s), are required to be submitted to this office no later than 5 days after they are originally sent (if they are sent to more than one manufacturer, distributor, dealer, or purchaser/owner).
  
  Dometic must file a sample of the envelope which you intend to use to mail the recall notice to owners. The words "SAFETY", "RECALL", "NOTICE" in any order must be printed on the envelope in larger font than the customers name and address.

[lewster]

Thanks Randy!

I have been doing a lot of the recalls for Dometic. IMHO, it is really just a safety band-aid and does not address the actual problem which might be deeper in the actual design/manufacture of the cooling units in question.

Norcold had a similar problem several years ago, but their solution was to actually replace the cooling units on a LOT or refers. That cost them LARGE, as it usually involved 3 hours labor to replace the cooling units on each affected refer, plus the cost of the new cooling unit!!!!!

The Dometic Recall kit contains a few pieces of extra sheet metal, a thermostat which acts as an ECO (energy cut-off device) and wiring. It's function is to detect the presence of an overheat situation (potential fire) and cut the power to the PC board, thus shutting down the unit and avoiding a potential catastrophy. This is similar to the ECOs found in RV furnaces and functions in the same way.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Lewster, I apreciate you looking into a manual. I contacted dometic and they sent me to someone who sent me to someone that did not want to be bothered. Finding the units info was hard... the tag was hanging front and center when I opener the grill. It says N50 B3 above the temp. dial. On the tag it says: unit type 75A... input rating 2000 BTU/ HOUR.... and in a box below that it says N 50.

[lewster]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

Lewster, I apreciate you looking into a manual. I contacted dometic and they sent me to someone who sent me to someone that did not want to be bothered. Finding the units info was hard... the tag was hanging front and center when I opener the grill. It says N50 B3 above the temp. dial. On the tag it says: unit type 75A... input rating 2000 BTU/ HOUR.... and in a box below that it says N 50.

62'O,

That helps a lot.......I'll see what I can do in the frigid conditions of Indiana in January (What am I thinking????? )

Ranger,

If your 19' is like mine, you have 2 access doors to the rear of the fridge. It is very simple to add a Snyder's kit in this configuration without removing the fridge. I did mine this way.....took maybe 20 minutes!

[SilverRanger]

Thanks, Lewster! My access doors appear to be exactly the same as yours, and that was the answer I was hoping for. Let's see... 20 minutes to be installed by a skilled professional means it should only take me about 2 hours.

[lewster]

HI Gang,

It's 45* and raining heavily. Temps projected to be dropping thru freezing level by Friday. I have an 11:00 AM flight out-a here and back to the FL warmth and sunshine. THIS PLACE IS DEPRESSING!!!!!!!....BUT INFORMATIVE.

A few answers: (more coming after tomorrow....)

Gkiesel:

Regarding the longevity of the products. While I couldn't get any definitive answer from one of the higher-ups that I met today, the answer seemed to revolve around eonomics, competition and the corporate need to make money. Call it planned obsolescence if you like, but most things are 'not made like they used to be'.


john hd:

I have a very definitive answer for you on the 12 VDC conversion kits. Every electric model is tested at UL Labs and receives a UL rating certificate. Adding a 12VDC kit to a 120VAC unit would de-list the unit from it's UL rating and create a huge liability potential for the company.

Also, the 12VDC operating system is designed strictly to be a maintenance cooling mode. That means that it will keep your fridge at whatever temp it is at when 12VDC operation begins. It is NOT designed to lower the temps in the unit. In fact, the unit is designed to operate at a MINIMUM of 12.8VDC. This assumes that you are traveling and under way and the TV's alternator is providing the voltage. Anything lower and the unit will start wraming up.

ganglin:

I'll be checking with archives for your manual tomorrow.


AirConditioner:

You could have several possible scenarios: The first I already mentioned. That being the clean and unobstructed chimney tube and clean and INTACT spiral baffle that is suspended in that tube. This is a critical area, as the spiral baffle is totally responsible for creating a 'hot spot' within the boiler tube where the chimney is welded to the pump tube. This is the only point where the heat generated by the LP flame is transferred to the ammonia solution. If it is dirty, corroded, out of position or even not there, it could be causing your problem.

Also, venting is critical. You might have a situation where the hot air created by the LP flame, and by the heat transfer from within the freezer is not being properly vented from the back of the unit. Your manual should detail the proper installation, but generally, there is zero clearance on top and sides and a max of 1-1.5" from the absorber coils to the side wall of the trailer.

Further, the design of this 'box' is also critical in providing a smooth air flow up and out of the box. Look for any obstructions or improper installation dimensions. PM me if you still have a problem. I think a fan is in your future!!

MORE TOMORROW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ganglin]

Heck Lew - 45 up this way in January is darn near a heat wave - time to think about working in the yard even.....

Stay dry - appreciate all your efforts....

[lewster]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

Lewster, I apreciate you looking into a manual. I contacted dometic and they sent me to someone who sent me to someone that did not want to be bothered. Finding the units info was hard... the tag was hanging front and center when I opener the grill. It says N50 B3 above the temp. dial. On the tag it says: unit type 75A... input rating 2000 BTU/ HOUR.... and in a box below that it says N 50.

62'O,

You have a Norcold unit as indicated by the 'N' in the model #. The only 'Ns' that Dometic uses are the NDR series, and they are all late model units. The NRD stands for New Dimension Refrigerator. Unfortunately, Dometic can't help with their competitors units.


Michelle,

Here' what your alphabet soup means:

CLC or CLIMATE CONTROL is a switch that controls a frame heater. This switch is engaged in high temperature AND humidity conditions when moisture is found on the refrigerator frame where the door seals make contact. The moisture on the frame impairs the sealing properties of the door....leading to air leaks, lower internal fridge temps and the formation of frost and/or icing of the cooling fins. This heater draws less that 0.5 amps

LAC /LAT or LOW AMBIENT CONTROL or TEMPERATURE is a switch that activates a circiuit to bypass the door switch to allow the interior light to remain ON when the door is closed! This is done when the outside (ambient) temperature is below 50*F. The intent is to create a mild heating effect in the fridge section that will tell the thermistor to engage the cooling unit to cycle every 35-55 minutes. This will help keep the temps in the freezer (uncontrolled) in the proper freezing zone. In low ambient temps, if this switch is not engaged, the fridge will stay cool, the cooling unit will not cycle, and the freezer will warm beyond it's acceptable range. It also keeps the cooling unit from freezing (there is water in the coolant mix) by cycling the cooling unit.

This switch should not be operated if the ambient temps are above 50*, as it will negatively effect the cooling operation of the fridge.

Hope this answers your questions.

[jimmini]

Hi
Sorry I missed this one my old 1989 works good.Only thing it get to cold on 115V with thermostat almost off still freezes top shelf. OK on gas thermostat about 1/4th to full cold is fine.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Attachment 52310 It says dometic on the door

[Frank's Trailer Works]

well you sent me out with the camera and a flashlight... On the door it say "Dometic, made in Sweden"


this tag is very visible it says 50 B4 and is at the top of the thermostat.

This tag says unit type 75A , input rate 2000 btu/ hour, and M50 at the bottom.

This tag says 75A on the left and 12310647 on the right. Sorry the photo sucks.
I opened the access door behind the fridge and could not see any tags. I am sorry if I gave you any wrong info, but it says Dometic in at least 5 locations on the unit. This might be reaching far, but do the have the paint codes? I love this shade of pink.

[lewster]

YUP!

Definitely a Dometic!!!

But it is an M-50...not an N-50................sort-a-makes a difference.....no?

Anyway, I'll try again tomorrow!!

Last day of the cold...............................YES!!!!!

[lewster]

YAY!!!!!

Class is over and it's back to work in warm....sunny FL. Sorry gang, but IN was quite dreary and dismal......not to mention COLD! Oh, and I forgot to mention how COLD it was there!!!!!

Anyway, here are the last words from Dometic:

For any of you with older Dometic fridges, the company does not support these units from the 60's and 70's with manuals any longer.....but they have sold all of their proprietary information to a firm i Elkhart that should have anything you are looking for in the way of documantation.

Call 'All Seasons Co.' in Elkhart, IN at 1-800-344-3803 and they should be able to get you the manual that you need.

I am also a certified 'Team 2000' tech for Dometic now. So if you have any refer or air conditioner problems that your normal service people can't solve, I might just have the answers.

Thanks all!!

[richg]

Please ask them why after I leave my trailer in storage for a couple of months I have to climb on the roof of the trailer and have someone turn on the A/C and I have to spin the fan blades in order to have the fan start spinning. If I do not do this it will just sit there and draw current and not cycle!!
I wonder what the older people do who can not climb up a ladder onto the roof of their Airstream and do this. This is unacceptable.
richg

[lewster]

Originally Posted by richg

Please ask them why after I leave my trailer in storage for a couple of months I have to climb on the roof of the trailer and have someone turn on the A/C and I have to spin the fan blades in order to have the fan start spinning. If I do not do this it will just sit there and draw current and not cycle!!
I wonder what the older people do who can not climb up a ladder onto the roof of their Airstream and do this. This is unacceptable.
richg

Richg,

Simple problem with a simple answer. Your run capacitor on the roof air is bad and should be replaced. The fan needs a little 'boost' that is provided by the run capacitor, and when this device is bad, that boost just isn't there, needing you to get up there and give the fan a boost.

Any competant RV tech should be able to do this for you. If there are none in your area, PM me and I'll give you the details.

[thecatsandi]

Originally Posted by lewster

Michelle,

Here' what your alphabet soup means:

CLC or CLIMATE CONTROL when it is hot and humid ie not cold.
LAC /LAT or LOW AMBIENT CONTROL = cold = winter jacket time.

Lew thats great!
Ok I have one more I though of. My freezer frosts up badly. The dollar in the door seal showit loose. I talked with one of the AS factory techs and he says it is supposed to be that way. I do not open the thing much (once a week) so she should not be frosting up that much. Given the frost is mostly at the top I assume a air leak in the upper door seal. Can you find out how tight the door seal should be?

[lewster]

Originally Posted by thecatsandi

Lew thats great!
Ok I have one more I though of. My freezer frosts up badly. The dollar in the door seal showit loose. I talked with one of the AS factory techs and he says it is supposed to be that way. I do not open the thing much (once a week) so she should not be frosting up that much. Given the frost is mostly at the top I assume a air leak in the upper door seal. Can you find out how tight the door seal should be?

Hey Michelle,

How's the gumbo.? I could use a nice vist to Bourbon St right about now.

Anyway, I'm afraid that the AS tech who told you that needs to go back for a little re-training!!! There should be a noticeable pull on the dollar bill when you remove it from a closed door. Your freezer obviously has a bad seal. Some frost is inevitable, since you have to open the door to get at your stuff...especially in very humid climates. But excessive frosting is the first sign of an improper door seal.

You can access the back of the seals by gently lifting the seal from the inside edge. For the seal that is on the top of your freezer door, it would be the bottom edge of that seal. You can add a strip of 1/4" thick foam weather stripping in beween the door and the seal....and it will push it out just enough to make a better contact with the frame.

There are several other issues when you get severe frost-up. Try the seals first and if the condition persists, let me know and I'll give you steps 2 and 3 . They are a bit more involved!!!!!