Which Victron remote control or monitors?

[fran&frank]

I am designing a system for my airstream trailer with a Victron multiplus 12/3000 inverter charger; Victron mppt 100/50 solar charge controller, BMV-700 battery monitor, and lithium battery and BMS from a yet to be determined manufacturer. My question is what remote monitor controls do I need to operate the system? Can I get by with just the above, and possibly VE.Bus to USB interface to connect my laptop for programming? Do I need a Digital Multi Control for the inverter/charger? Or is their one device, possibly, the Blue Power Panel or Color Control GX ,that replaces the need for any or all of the above? Is a BMV-700 battery monitor still needed if I go with a Blue Power Panel or Color Control GX? --Frank

[lewster]

Originally Posted by fran&frank

I am designing a system for my airstream trailer with a Victron multiplus 12/3000 inverter charger; Victron mppt 100/50 solar charge controller, BMV-700 battery monitor, and lithium battery and BMS from a yet to be determined manufacturer. My question is what remote monitor controls do I need to operate the system? Can I get by with just the above, and possibly VE.Bus to USB interface to connect my laptop for programming? Do I need a Digital Multi Control for the inverter/charger? Or is their one device, possibly, the Blue Power Panel or Color Control GX ,that replaces the need for any or all of the above? Is a BMV-700 battery monitor still needed if I go with a Blue Power Panel or Color Control GX? --Frank

You still need the BMV-702 as a battery monitor and battery temperature sensor, even with the CCGX color control. Programming the MultiPlus and the CCGX are done from a PC (no iOS yet) via the MK2-USB Interface for the MultiPlus and a micro USB card for the CCGX. Your inverter will also need the Digital Multi Control as well.

Victron is presently developing a new control system that will enhance the CCGX and will be direct to blue tooth for smart phone monitoring....but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. It will probably be a minimum of 6 months before the beta versions are out for testing.

[fran&frank]

Is the Blue Power Panel an option instead of the CCGX, at about half the cost? If I use one of the above, does that eliminate the need for the digital multi control for the inverter and monitor for the mppt controler? And why a BMV-702 over a BMV-700 battery monitor? --Frank

[lewster]

Originally Posted by fran&frank

Is the Blue Power Panel an option instead of the CCGX, at about half the cost? If I use one of the above, does that eliminate the need for the digital multi control for the inverter and monitor for the mppt controler? And why a BMV-702 over a BMV-700 battery monitor? --Frank

The BPP does not have the control and connectivity that we need for our Victron Signature level lithium monitoring systems. The CCGX is a better device for full system integration and the only display the we presently use. Also, the BMV-702 is the latest, most versatile battery monitor that Victron offers, as it is the upgraded version of the 700 model with temperature sensor and relay-controlled output, a feature we also use for our automatic lithium low temperature charging disconnect systems.

You don't need the MPPT monitor if you use the blue tooth dongle, but if you want the MPPT display to show on the CCGX, you will need the VE Direct cable rather than the dongle...sort of an either/or choice.

Depending on your desired monitoring results, you might be happy with the BPP, but I am not intimately familiar with them as we focus on the CCGX.

As far as I know, the Digital Multi Control is still required for the inverter's on/off control.

[wmcneil]

Reinforcing what Lew posted, the Blue Power Control does not have a VE.direct port, so it also does not support most(maybe all?) of the Victron solar charge controllers (should one of those be in your future plans).

Lew can you comment on the following?: Comparing Bluetooth connection vs. the Color Control: If you are using BT and the Connect app running on a single smart device, I'm guessing you can probably get most/all of the information that you could obtain with the Color Control, but you are going to have to serially connect to each BT connected device to obtain all the information, since without the Color Control there is no information interconnect between the devices. (As you pointed out, the bluetooth connection on the Multiplus is a future feature that has not yet been released, so that is a current further limitation of bluetooth)

[lsbrodsky]

Bill,

Do you know what information you do not get with BT? I have separate BT dongles on my Solar Controller and on my Battery Monitor and I get more information than I can use, on my phone. As for the MultiPlus, I connect it to my laptop PC and I can do firmware upgrades and settings. Not sure what else I might be missing or need.
Larry

[wmcneil]

Originally Posted by lsbrodsky

Bill,

Do you know what information you do not get with BT? I have separate BT dongles on my Solar Controller and on my Battery Monitor and I get more information than I can use, on my phone. As for the MultiPlus, I connect it to my laptop PC and I can do firmware upgrades and settings. Not sure what else I might be missing or need.
Larry

Larry,
The point I was making/asking Lew about, is that with Bluetooth, assuming you are using a single smartphone, you must connect to each device in turn (one at a time) to gather the data you are interested in. Without the Color Control, the devices are not connected to each other (with respect to a data/networking interface), so each bluetooth connection is only going to provide data for the one device you are currently connected to. You must aggregate the data yourself. When using the Color Control, the potential is there for data to be aggregated together, since it is connected to all devices. So for example, with the Color Control, a single screen could show you all the battery monitor stats, and the Inverter stats, etc...Hopefully Lew will chime in and add his knowledge as to whether I am making the correct assumptions.

[lewster]

Originally Posted by wmcneil

Larry,
The point I was making/asking Lew about, is that with Bluetooth, assuming you are using a single smartphone, you must connect to each device in turn (one at a time) to gather the data you are interested in. Without the Color Control, the devices are not connected to each other (with respect to a data/networking interface), so each bluetooth connection is only going to provide data for the one device you are currently connected to. You must aggregate the data yourself. When using the Color Control, the potential is there for data to be aggregated together, since it is connected to all devices. So for example, with the Color Control, a single screen could show you all the battery monitor stats, and the Inverter stats, etc...Hopefully Lew will chime in and add his knowledge as to whether I am making the correct assumptions.

You rang?

The CCGX will display all of the devices that are connected to it via VE Direct and Cat5-e connections and will display pictorial images of each. It will also show you what the devices are delivering to the overall system, along with the direction of the power flow.

Say you are on inverter while off-grid and have solar charging input as well, since it's noon on a sunny day of boondocking. The CCGX will show you what the contributions to the batteries is from the solar, how much current the inverter is drawing from the batteries as well as the present battery voltage.

In hybrid mode, the CCGX will show how much shore power is being received and used, along with the contribution from the MultiPlus and the draw from the batteries being utilized to satisfy the load's requirements.

With the blue tooth dongles, you do have to look at each individual component, but they offer more in-depth information that he main CCGX screen. You can get the same type of information from the CCGX by isolating a device on the screen and it's individual page will display all of the parameters within it's design parameters.

The CCGX is a great device for a total Victron system. I usually install the dongles for partial Victron systems, like a Blue Solar charge controller with the BMV-702 but coupled with the magnum inverter/charger and AGM batteries.

We are anxiously awaiting the latest version of the CCGX that will have fully integrated blue tooth so that all of the details will be available on your smart phone without the need for the dongles. It will be a while though.......

[fran&frank]

So let me recap what I think I've concluded from the previous posts. The Blue Power Panel is not as capable as I thought and is considered old technology now so I'm not considering it anymore. So if I go with the CCGX I can monitor, operate, and program my Victron multiplus 12/3000 inverter charger; Victron mppt 100/50 solar charge controller, and BMV battery monitor, with nothing else needed? Alternatively I need a bluetooth dongle or mppt monitor and a Digital Multi Control for the inverter/charger? Or is another option to connect my laptop directly to the multiplus 12/3000 inverter charger or Victron mppt 100/50 solar charge controller via an appropriate cable, (granted one at a time) and do everything I would need to? --Frank

[lewster]

Originally Posted by fran&frank

So let me recap what I think I've concluded from the previous posts. The Blue Power Panel is not as capable as I thought and is considered old technology now so I'm not considering it anymore. So if I go with the CCGX I can monitor, operate, and program my Victron multiplus 12/3000 inverter charger; Victron mppt 100/50 solar charge controller, and BMV battery monitor, with nothing else needed? Alternatively I need a bluetooth dongle or mppt monitor and a Digital Multi Control for the inverter/charger? Or is another option to connect my laptop directly to the multiplus 12/3000 inverter charger or Victron mppt 100/50 solar charge controller via an appropriate cable, (granted one at a time) and do everything I would need to? --Frank

You're getting closer......

You really need a PC for the programming of a MultiPlus via the MK2-USB interface using the Cat5-e port and the CCGX, which needs a micro USB card. The CCGX does not have distinct programming functions.

The BMV-702 is programmable directly from the control panel and the 100/50 Blue Solar charge controller is easily done either with their 7 position rotary switch on the device (if any of their pre-sets are applicable to your battery charging needs), or custom programmable with the dongle.

I just programmed a 702 and 100/30 today and both the individual dongles and both devices were automatically updated via iPhone. I manually programmed the 702 from the monitor and used the blue tooth connection for the custom solar battery charge programming.

The PC interface is just as easy for the MultiPlus and GGCX.

So other than the components themselves, you will need the MK2-USB adapter, a micro USB card, a single blue tooth dongle and a PC of your choice running higher Windows (no iOS available yet).

[Mgieselman]

The CCGX only needs a micro sd card if you want to save more than 2 days of history, which given they are like $8 for 8GB now it's a no brainer but not required. If your CCGX has firmware earlier than 2.0.0 then you will need a micro sd card to upgrade to 2.0.0 or later.

My CCGX is offline for a week or two at a time so when I'm using the trailer it connects to the WiFi on my iPhone and uploads all of it's data to the VRM Portal. Note you need the Victron WiFi adapter for the CCGX to upload data to the VRM portal or you can do it manually using the micro sd card.

IMHO I'd get a CCGX and one Bluetooth dongle (BTD), you can use the BTD upgrade the firmware, change settings in the VE Direct devices which are the BlueSolar and BMV-702. Once your done with that just connect your VE Direct devices to your CCGX.

The CCGX gives you some cool factor and system at a glance plus VRM Portal integration, also the CCGX communicates with both the Multiplus and BlueSolar so if you batteries are charged and you put a load on your DC bus then the BlueSolar will provide as much of that power as possible. Normally if BlueSolar see's the batteries are charged and you turn on your TV it will essentially do nothing until your voltage drops.

If expense were an issue I'd just go 2 of the BTD and skip the CCGX, but if the ~$400 doesn't bother you get it.

You can configure your Multiplus using VE Configure 3 and the VRM Portal if you have the CCGX and WiFi. Not sure it's worth the hassle of setting all of that up vs the $70 MK2-USB cable but when I was making changes to my settings it was easier to make them on my home PC and then get the CCGX to connect to VRM Portal and download. Note: Doing it this was is more for advanced users.

My biggest gripe with Victron is the different data connections they have, VE Direct, VE Bus, VE CAN. I understand they are coming out with a CCGX that lacks a screen that you control via your iOS/Android device, not sure I'd wait but it's on its way.

[lsbrodsky]

I decided to save some money, take a pass on the cool factor, and skip the ccgx. The AM Solar kit comes with the multi-remote for the I/C. With that remote, wired with a CAT5 cable, you can set the amp limit, turn the charger section on and/or turn the inverter section on. I concluded that was sufficient since I put BT dongles on the solar controller and the battery monitor. You can go to the software section of the Victron site and see what parameters you can monitor on your phone. As I said, I used my PC and the MKII to set up the I/C. I also used my PC to set up the solar controller, before I installed the dongle. But you can use BT to setup the solar and the battery monitor.
Larry

[fran&frank]

So for $530 for the CCGX I am going to skip the cool factor too, at least for now, and pass on it. If I am going to program the multiplus 12/3000 with my laptop and a ve.bus to usb adapter, I think I will skip the remote panel and save another $150. I understand I'll need access to the front of the inverter to see its status and turn it on or off. Then the remaining question is whether to go with the blue tooth dongle and use my phone or ve.direct cable and my laptop. Do both have the same capabilities? If a laptop has bluetooth will the software work with the blue tooth dongle?--Frank

[Troutboy]

I skipped th ccgx as well, same setup as Larry, two BT dongel, one on solar, one on bmv702, and the mk2, USB for the inverter.

[lsbrodsky]

F&F,

My laptop with BT does not work with the dongles. I suppose if you could emulate Android it would, but not Windows. You can get the same information with a cable to your laptop, plugged in to the device and Victron Connect on your PC. But that is far less convenient than being able to stand outside your trailer and use your phone via BT.
Larry

[fran&frank]

Thanks everyone, looks like I have it figured out now. I might be ordering equipment next week and will post on my progress!

[wmcneil]

Originally Posted by fran&frank

So for $530 for the CCGX I am going to skip the cool factor too, at least for now, and pass on it. If I am going to program the multiplus 12/3000 with my laptop and a ve.bus to usb adapter, I think I will skip the remote panel and save another $150. I understand I'll need access to the front of the inverter to see its status and turn it on or off. Then the remaining question is whether to go with the blue tooth dongle and use my phone or ve.direct cable and my laptop. Do both have the same capabilities? If a laptop has bluetooth will the software work with the blue tooth dongle?--Frank

Frank,
You may be aware, but just to be sure you have all the info:
* The Multiplus has no bluetooth option. So for configuration of the Multiplus via software, your only option is the MK2-USB adapter/cable plus laptop.
* Without the remote panel, the only way to set the Multiplus AC current limit is the MK2-USB adapter/cable plus laptop.

[lsbrodsky]

Let me add to the above comment that the time you may want to change the current limit is when you decide to use a small generator, employing the inverter to pick up any slack, such as AC starting current. It would be somewhat inconvenient to have to connect your laptop at that time, versus just turning the knob on the remote.
Larry

[lewster]

Originally Posted by lsbrodsky

Let me add to the above comment that the time you may want to change the current limit is when you decide to use a small generator, employing the inverter to pick up any slack, such as AC starting current. It would be somewhat inconvenient to have to connect your laptop at that time, versus just turning the knob on the remote.
Larry

That's one of the reasons that we use them in every Victron I/C installation.

[wmcneil]

Originally Posted by lewster

That's one of the reasons that we use them in every Victron I/C installation.

Lew,
Can one use the CCGX to directly control the Multiplus (without having to use the VRM portal)? (I know you can't configure the Multiplus directly with the CCGX, but the Victron literature seems to imply you can control it with the CCGX instead of the remote control.)