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Old 09-01-2015, 11:03 AM   #15
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Two Lifeline AGM 12v Grp 27s (200 amp hr) have an overall rough footprint of roughly 13"L x 14"w, adding a one inch space between them and weigh 124lbs

Two AGM 6v (220 amp hr) are about a 11"L x 15"W and weigh 132lbs

The twin bed is 34" x 78". If I mounted the batteries under the street side twin up against the shower wall and position as close to twin bed aisle frame they would would be located about 15/16" from the trailer center line and probably 3 foot in front of the forward axle and about 7' from the A frame battery box.. I would imagine the frame of the trailer is below or close to this position and the subfloor should provide adequate support.

The question is running the battery cables 8 to 10 feet to where the current battery cables terminate. I guess I would need heavier gauge wire than what is currently on my batteries. I plan to have drawers under the street twin bed. The battery cables could run under the drawers. I would have the twin bed frame top hinged and using the struts from the queen bed to help raise the bed up for access to the batteries. I don't want to go to heavier batteries because it would be more difficult to remove them for maintenance/replacement.

Do AGMs need to be vented when installed inside? I'm going to have the shower wall under the twin opened up during this conversion so there is better access to the shower drain plumbing Would that access hole allow sufficient venting as the area under the shower opens to the plumbing that goes to the city water, gray tank rinse and the external shower equipment.

Kelvin
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Old 09-01-2015, 06:03 PM   #16
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Optima batteries are not what they used to be.
They used to be the gold standard for the 4WD crowd.
Not so much anymore. I don't think they are what you want for an RV application.
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Old 09-01-2015, 07:03 PM   #17
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Optima's are not on my list. Haven't been for years. The only reason to use AGMs now is I want to move them inside the trailer. My top choices are Lifeline and Trojan. I can buy Trojans locally. Haven't seen Lifelines in any store.

I guess one of the advantages to put the batteries next to the shower is I could run the wires easily under the shower, hall wardobe, fridge and connect to a Trimetrics panel on the fridge wall where the TV is hung.

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Old 09-01-2015, 10:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJRitchie View Post
Two Lifeline AGM 12v Grp 27s (200 amp hr) have an overall rough footprint of roughly 13"L x 14"w, adding a one inch space between them and weigh 124lbs

Two AGM 6v (220 amp hr) are about a 11"L x 15"W and weigh 132lbs

The twin bed is 34" x 78". If I mounted the batteries under the street side twin up against the shower wall and position as close to twin bed aisle frame they would would be located about 15/16" from the trailer center line and probably 3 foot in front of the forward axle and about 7' from the A frame battery box.. I would imagine the frame of the trailer is below or close to this position and the subfloor should provide adequate support.

The question is running the battery cables 8 to 10 feet to where the current battery cables terminate. I guess I would need heavier gauge wire than what is currently on my batteries. I plan to have drawers under the street twin bed. The battery cables could run under the drawers. I would have the twin bed frame top hinged and using the struts from the queen bed to help raise the bed up for access to the batteries. I don't want to go to heavier batteries because it would be more difficult to remove them for maintenance/replacement.

Do AGMs need to be vented when installed inside? I'm going to have the shower wall under the twin opened up during this conversion so there is better access to the shower drain plumbing Would that access hole allow sufficient venting as the area under the shower opens to the plumbing that goes to the city water, gray tank rinse and the external shower equipment.

Kelvin
Kelvin,

For a run of that length, I would use a minimum of 2AWG and probably 1/0AWG of I were doing the job. Also remember that you need to have a properly sized DC circuit breaker within 18" of the positive battery terminal for the line running to the front. for 2 AWG I would use a 75 amp breaker and for 1/0 a 100 amp breaker. Remember that you are protecting the wire and not any devices. This type of breaker can also act as a total coach disconnect switch that will easily isolate your batteries for ALL DC loads for storage.

I typically don't vent Lifelines on my installations, but then the only chargers I use are fully programmable Blue Sky solar charge controllers or Magnum inverter/chargers, both of which also have full temperature compensation and a minuscule chance of overcharging the batteries in question.

Lifelines will only outgas in an extreme overcharging situation of 15.5VDC+. The DO like a bit of breathing room around them in their compartment, though.
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Old 09-02-2015, 11:29 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by lewster View Post
Optima batteries are lighter simply because they use less lead inside the battery, which provides less battery capacity. They have the footprint of a group 24 battery which typically has an 80 amp/hour capacity. An Optima has a mere 55 amp/hours of capacity. Folks generally want to increase their battery capacity, not decrease it.

Do a bit of research on present remarks about Optimas. They were once well rated, but now that they are manufactured in China, buyers are experiencing many problems with them.

There are many other battery solutions available.
Thanks. After doing a bit or research, I won't touch the Optima batteries. I will consider 6V AMG batteries. I need more capacity, not less. I don't need to reduce the weight up front at all, and if I did, might consider composite LP tanks from Viking Industries.
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Old 09-02-2015, 11:47 PM   #20
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Great Idea

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Originally Posted by switz View Post
Our 300 amp-hour AM Solar lithium iron phosphate battery has a foot print of 14.5" x 11.25" and it requires about 11.25" of vertical space. This battery weighs 84 pounds which is less then the two stock standard factory installed Interstate batteries we removed.

Two other foot print configurations for this battery are 7.25" x 22.5" or 5.625" x 29".

One configuration for the 400 amp-hourm configuration could be 11.25" x 19.375" and would weigh 112 pounds.

We can safely use 80% to 85% of the capacity which means there is 255 amp hours of usable power. The battery will absorb all the power we can throw at it when charging, but does require an intelligent programable charger.

We mounted the battery just in front of the street side wheel well with the Magnum MSH-3012 charger/inverter along side.
What a great idea. I hadn't considered one Lithium-Ion battery to replace my two stock 12V batteries. I read about all of the advantages on the AM Solar site and I am certain that theses newer batteries do last much longer than lead acid batteries with many other advantages. However, at $2,600 for the 300 amp-hour configuration, I would have to think about it a little longer. Does the Li-Ion battery require an different or new inverter or can I use my cheapo stock inverter (2015)? I was planning on replacing it with a 4-stage upgrade this winter. Thanks. Lyle
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Old 09-03-2015, 10:40 AM   #21
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What a great idea. I hadn't considered one Lithium-Ion battery to replace my two stock 12V batteries. I read about all of the advantages on the AM Solar site and I am certain that theses newer batteries do last much longer than lead acid batteries with many other advantages. However, at $2,600 for the 300 amp-hour configuration, I would have to think about it a little longer. Does the Li-Ion battery require an different or new inverter or can I use my cheapo stock inverter (2015)? I was planning on replacing it with a 4-stage upgrade this winter. Thanks. Lyle
Lyle,

AM Solar's lithium battery does require special charging parameters. To date, the only chargers that we use are the solar charge controllers from Blue Sky Energy when a solar array is on the RV and a Magnum inverter/charger with their ME-RC remote. When using a Magnum, you will need a minimum MS-2012 2000 watt sine wave inverter/charger, as their smaller units' charging firmware do not have the custom charge profile recognition that's required.

PM me if you need more detailed information.

..........and remember, you can use 240 amp/hours from a 300 amp/hour lithium battery, which is the equivalent of a 480 amp/hour lead based battery bank.
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Old 09-03-2015, 11:06 AM   #22
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Kelvin,

For a run of that length, I would use a minimum of 2AWG and probably 1/0AWG of I were doing the job. Also remember that you need to have a properly sized DC circuit breaker within 18" of the positive battery terminal for the line running to the front. for 2 AWG I would use a 75 amp breaker and for 1/0 a 100 amp breaker. Remember that you are protecting the wire and not any devices. This type of breaker can also act as a total coach disconnect switch that will easily isolate your batteries for ALL DC loads for storage.

I typically don't vent Lifelines on my installations, but then the only chargers I use are fully programmable Blue Sky solar charge controllers or Magnum inverter/chargers, both of which also have full temperature compensation and a minuscule chance of overcharging the batteries in question.

Lifelines will only outgas in an extreme overcharging situation of 15.5VDC+. The DO like a bit of breathing room around them in their compartment, though.
I'm a little confused with the "18" parameter above. Currently with my queen bed the converter/charger with the DC panel is located under the queen bed frame facing the bathroom area. Wires to/from are enclosed in a flexible loom that is laid from the converter location to the street wall next the water heater then makes a turn towards the front of the trailer under the side storage compartment door to the side of the queen bed closest to the front of the trailer to a compartment that has the Use/Store relay, an enclosed gray box and some electrical busses. The cables from the A frame batteries and the electrical tow harness come up through the floor here. I'm sure the battery cables terminate in this area and not directly to the converter.

So you are saying a fuse needs be installed on the positive battery cable? Is there a fuse on the OEM wiring? I guess I don't understand why the positive cable would need a fuse. We don't have an inverter and probably won't get one.

Is there a schematic somewhere that shows this?

Lew, what is your opinion for locating the batteries: street side or curbside twin.

Thanks

Kelvin
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Old 09-03-2015, 11:27 PM   #23
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Lyle,

AM Solar's lithium battery does require special charging parameters. To date, the only chargers that we use are the solar charge controllers from Blue Sky Energy when a solar array is on the RV and a Magnum inverter/charger with their ME-RC remote. When using a Magnum, you will need a minimum MS-2012 2000 watt sine wave inverter/charger, as their smaller units' charging firmware do not have the custom charge profile recognition that's required.

PM me if you need more detailed information.

..........and remember, you can use 240 amp/hours from a 300 amp/hour lithium battery, which is the equivalent of a 480 amp/hour lead based battery bank.
Thanks for the info Lew. AM Solar sells the Magnum Inverters as well. Perhaps I should just drive out there and ask them about the proper setup. Fortunately, they are minutes from my house. Lyle
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Old 09-04-2015, 12:38 AM   #24
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Thanks for the info Lew. AM Solar sells the Magnum Inverters as well. Perhaps I should just drive out there and ask them about the proper setup. Fortunately, they are minutes from my house. Lyle
Lyle,

The 'shop' and myself are the only places you can get their lithiums for now....unless one physically drives to Springfield and picks them up.

I would definitely suggest calling ahead, as I know they are booked out a couple of months.
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Old 10-27-2015, 11:19 PM   #25
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Did you ever finish this install?
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Old 10-28-2015, 11:25 PM   #26
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No, I'm just waiting for the RV season to settle down before driving out to AM Solar.
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Old 10-28-2015, 11:29 PM   #27
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My question was for KJRitchie, I have a twin too. Curious about his final placement, and length of cables used, etc.
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Old 10-31-2015, 07:54 AM   #28
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On the 23D, we put the lithium iron phosphate 300 amp-hour battery about five inches forward of the street side wheel well under the sofa. All the switches and fuses were between it and the heater along with the solar charge controller. The Magnum MSH-3012 was just forward of the heater along with an automatic transfer switch for the added front AC generator power inlet and the main circuit breaker.

We also wired in a bypass switch to be able to isolate the Magnum if there were an issue with it.

All the equipment fitted under the street side sofa and dinette seat without reducing the original storage or removing the slide out drawer in the sofa for sleeping.

The DC power wires from the collector box on the roof for the five 100 watt solar panels came in above the microwave and continued downwards inside the refrigerator compartment.
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