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Old 01-05-2016, 07:17 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
I believe that's not internal to the battery, but rather circuitry and software in the component which it powers.
That depends on the manufacturer of the battery monitor system. We use a visual notification of battery disconnect and a manual re-set.
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Old 01-05-2016, 07:19 PM   #16
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Yes, external to the battery itself. Correct?
Edit: meant to quote Lew
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Old 01-05-2016, 07:20 PM   #17
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Yes, external to the battery itself. Correct?
Correct
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Old 01-06-2016, 09:24 PM   #18
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Here's a nice set of curves for Lithiums. The wet cell charts, well, throw them away as previously stated. What's really needed is measurement of amps being used. And there is a caveat that I have found with the Elite LCD readout, and likely most other amp measuring devices. They work great if you have some type of loads on the system. Something over 2-3 ah of draw. When in storage mode, everything turned off in your trailer such as winter storage they lose track and are not accurate. I've been down this route and had discussions with Elite. My storage currently has a draw of about .3ah.

The bar graph basically doesn't move. The BlueSky also loses track, that it likely more a factor of the way it keeps track and expects to see occasional solar input. I'm stored inside so that doesn't happen.

I don't know if a Trimetric or adding the Magnum BMK unit would make much difference for Lithiums.

Here's the link to the curves. There are two, a charge and a discharge.http://elitepowersolutions.com/docs/...g%20Curves.pdf

Discharge looks like this:

Click image for larger version

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The curves are colored by discharge rate. 1C is equal to the ah capacity of the battery as a discharge rate. So a 100ah battery would have a 1C rate of 100 amps. That's more than most of us would see. And that starts to lead to the issue of tracking ah usage. My small .3ah rate is a .003C rate. Elite says with a different shunt that they could do a program change to follow a different rate but that same shunt wouldn't work for our normal loading situation. I'd guess it would also mess up the setup with the Magnum.

Shutdown for low voltage is handled by a relay. Same for an over voltage situation. During charging if you have a BMS unit then that also helps balance individual cells or packs of cells depending on the BMS to stop charging a specific cell. But you still want over/under relays in place. Along with a well programmed Magnum or other programmable charger.
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Old 01-07-2016, 10:45 AM   #19
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Gary, are you removing your lithiums to store at your house during winter storage, due to the issue of charging when under 32F?

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Old 01-07-2016, 05:21 PM   #20
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Kelvin, no I am leaving them in the trailer. I have a logging thermometer which I check once per week. Also a small 200w ceramic heater on a temperature controlled switch. So far even though temps have dropped into the 0-10degree range overnight with 20's during the day the interior temps have stayed above 30 degrees and that batteries show individual cell voltages above 32 degrees.

Removing lithiums could/would be a PITA. Between battery connectors and BMS sensors there would be a lot of work. If gets colder then I have a battery wrap that would keep them toasty.

If I didn't have power in my storage unit then I would need to remove them. So depends on the individual situation. Something to consider when making the move to lithiums.
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Old 01-07-2016, 05:42 PM   #21
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I've notice you early adopters have the lithiums that are built up from individual cells. I've seen lithiums packaged like lead/acid battery form factor with built in BMS. They could be moved like normal batteries. This form factor will be what I think the RV industry will use when lithiums become options.

Progressive Dynamics now has lithium chargers that are reasonably priced ($200-$300). Just need a solar controller that can't be set up to charge lithiums that have reasonably priced.

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Old 01-07-2016, 08:18 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJRitchie View Post
I've notice you early adopters have the lithiums that are built up from individual cells. I've seen lithiums packaged like lead/acid battery form factor with built in BMS. They could be moved like normal batteries. This form factor will be what I think the RV industry will use when lithiums become options.

Progressive Dynamics now has lithium chargers that are reasonably priced ($200-$300). Just need a solar controller that can't be set up to charge lithiums that have reasonably priced.

Kelvin

I wouldn't make the assumption that we are early adopters, this tech is pretty advanced. And has been used in both the EV and Marine applications for awhile.

Early adopters would of been in 2011 like when Technomadia installed generation 1 lithiums from Elite. Mine are generation 3.

And also, I highly doubt the industry will move to the style of battery you mention outside of maybe starting batteries. Large banks are best built of out of individual prismatic cells with a single BMS. And just so you are aware, the batteries you mention, are individual prismatic cells encased in a standard battery case.

If you notice, some of those offers are still in the same price range, and in some ways a bit more expensive.
Smart Battery® | 12V Lithium Ion Batteries for RV Marine and Automotive

18650 cells haven't really reduced in price in the last 5 yrs, so I wouldn't get your hopes up too much on the prismatic cells either.

Last point, if one cell fails in my system, I can replace it. If one cell in that enclosed system fails, guess what you're out your $1K and chucking the whole thing.

$155 < $1K easy math.

Re converters - I'm not making a sales pitch here for a certain Oregon company obviously or a certain brand of very expensive "American made" converters, but yes there are a lot of li-ion converters on the market already. More than you named.

The hobbyist community is very large for lithium, with a lot more information shared on than the sales material usually posted as information here.

My Blue Sky is programmable and charges my lithiums just fine. If you can adjust the voltages you'll be fine. Don't need a "lithium" specific charge controller.

Cheers.
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Old 01-07-2016, 11:24 PM   #23
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So you have disconnected your batteries from the converter/charger and rely on solar only for battery charging.

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Old 04-04-2016, 10:29 AM   #24
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I'm investigating whether or not to replace me PD4655 with a Magnum MMS 1012 1000w inverter/charger. I can't justify the 2000w due to price and my current battery capacity.

I'm also planning on 200w solar on the roof. Probably going with an AM Solar package that includes the Blue Sky monitor panel and the Blue Sky solar charge controller. It also seems I will need to have the Magnum remote panel, RC 50, to monitor and set up the Magnum inverter charger. So with the two remotes do most use the Blue Sky to monitor the battery and just use the Magnum remote to monitor the inverter useage and battery charge set up without the Magnum battery monitor kit?

The refrigerator circuit seems to be a shared circuit so how is the fridge isolated from the inverter? Do you just keep the fridge on manual and switch to AC when on shore power and LP when off shore power or is there a way to isolate the fridge circuit from the inverter? I'm sure I'd forgot to switch the fridge over one day and end up with dead batteries.

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Old 04-04-2016, 10:52 AM   #25
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We did not order the factory inverter when we built the Classic. When all the 120Vac wiring was customized for the Magnum MS-2812, Tri-Star solar charge controller and 600 amp-hour battery system, every outlet both inside and outside of the trailer and appliance that uses 120Vac has access to the inverted power.

Our 23D came with the 1000 watt factory inverter. We discarded it when the hybrid Magnum MSH-3012 was installed and the 120Vac electric circuit breaker panel was replaced during the the complete re-wiring so every outlet in and outside of the coach is powered through the Magnum by either shore power or inverted battery sourced power.
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Old 04-04-2016, 11:00 AM   #26
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Switz,

What breaker panel did you use to replace the factory installed?
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Old 04-04-2016, 11:08 AM   #27
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On my trailer the only appliances that have a dedicated circuit are the AC and water heater. Everything else shares a circuit. Was that a complicated and expensive job to rewire.

I forgot in my previous post to include the water heater 120v to be separate from inverted power.

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Old 04-04-2016, 12:12 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJRitchie View Post
I'm investigating whether or not to replace me PD4655 with a Magnum MMS 1012 1000w inverter/charger. I can't justify the 2000w due to price and my current battery capacity.

I'm also planning on 200w solar on the roof. Probably going with an AM Solar package that includes the Blue Sky monitor panel and the Blue Sky solar charge controller. It also seems I will need to have the Magnum remote panel, RC 50, to monitor and set up the Magnum inverter charger. So with the two remotes do most use the Blue Sky to monitor the battery and just use the Magnum remote to monitor the inverter useage and battery charge set up without the Magnum battery monitor kit?

The refrigerator circuit seems to be a shared circuit so how is the fridge isolated from the inverter? Do you just keep the fridge on manual and switch to AC when on shore power and LP when off shore power or is there a way to isolate the fridge circuit from the inverter? I'm sure I'd forgot to switch the fridge over one day and end up with dead batteries.

Kelvin
You'll find yourself monitoring the batteries on the Magnum and monitoring your solar on the Blue Sky. This is pretty much my preferred view. I like seeing how much the solar is pulling in and how much the controller is boosting the current.

On the magnum I can see all the power being used.
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