Trimetric vs Magnum with remote

[KJRitchie]

I've notice you early adopters have the lithiums that are built up from individual cells. I've seen lithiums packaged like lead/acid battery form factor with built in BMS. They could be moved like normal batteries. This form factor will be what I think the RV industry will use when lithiums become options.

Progressive Dynamics now has lithium chargers that are reasonably priced ($200-$300). Just need a solar controller that can't be set up to charge lithiums that have reasonably priced.

Kelvin

[BoldAdventure]

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

I've notice you early adopters have the lithiums that are built up from individual cells. I've seen lithiums packaged like lead/acid battery form factor with built in BMS. They could be moved like normal batteries. This form factor will be what I think the RV industry will use when lithiums become options.

Progressive Dynamics now has lithium chargers that are reasonably priced ($200-$300). Just need a solar controller that can't be set up to charge lithiums that have reasonably priced.

Kelvin

I wouldn't make the assumption that we are early adopters, this tech is pretty advanced. And has been used in both the EV and Marine applications for awhile.

Early adopters would of been in 2011 like when Technomadia installed generation 1 lithiums from Elite. Mine are generation 3.

And also, I highly doubt the industry will move to the style of battery you mention outside of maybe starting batteries. Large banks are best built of out of individual prismatic cells with a single BMS. And just so you are aware, the batteries you mention, are individual prismatic cells encased in a standard battery case.

If you notice, some of those offers are still in the same price range, and in some ways a bit more expensive.
Smart Battery® | 12V Lithium Ion Batteries for RV Marine and Automotive

18650 cells haven't really reduced in price in the last 5 yrs, so I wouldn't get your hopes up too much on the prismatic cells either.

Last point, if one cell fails in my system, I can replace it. If one cell in that enclosed system fails, guess what you're out your $1K and chucking the whole thing.

$155 < $1K easy math.

Re converters - I'm not making a sales pitch here for a certain Oregon company obviously or a certain brand of very expensive "American made" converters, but yes there are a lot of li-ion converters on the market already. More than you named.

The hobbyist community is very large for lithium, with a lot more information shared on than the sales material usually posted as information here.

My Blue Sky is programmable and charges my lithiums just fine. If you can adjust the voltages you'll be fine. Don't need a "lithium" specific charge controller.

Cheers.

[KJRitchie]

So you have disconnected your batteries from the converter/charger and rely on solar only for battery charging.

Kelvin

[KJRitchie]

I'm investigating whether or not to replace me PD4655 with a Magnum MMS 1012 1000w inverter/charger. I can't justify the 2000w due to price and my current battery capacity.

I'm also planning on 200w solar on the roof. Probably going with an AM Solar package that includes the Blue Sky monitor panel and the Blue Sky solar charge controller. It also seems I will need to have the Magnum remote panel, RC 50, to monitor and set up the Magnum inverter charger. So with the two remotes do most use the Blue Sky to monitor the battery and just use the Magnum remote to monitor the inverter useage and battery charge set up without the Magnum battery monitor kit?

The refrigerator circuit seems to be a shared circuit so how is the fridge isolated from the inverter? Do you just keep the fridge on manual and switch to AC when on shore power and LP when off shore power or is there a way to isolate the fridge circuit from the inverter? I'm sure I'd forgot to switch the fridge over one day and end up with dead batteries.

Kelvin

[switz]

We did not order the factory inverter when we built the Classic. When all the 120Vac wiring was customized for the Magnum MS-2812, Tri-Star solar charge controller and 600 amp-hour battery system, every outlet both inside and outside of the trailer and appliance that uses 120Vac has access to the inverted power.

Our 23D came with the 1000 watt factory inverter. We discarded it when the hybrid Magnum MSH-3012 was installed and the 120Vac electric circuit breaker panel was replaced during the the complete re-wiring so every outlet in and outside of the coach is powered through the Magnum by either shore power or inverted battery sourced power.

[TheCabin]

Switz,

What breaker panel did you use to replace the factory installed?

[KJRitchie]

On my trailer the only appliances that have a dedicated circuit are the AC and water heater. Everything else shares a circuit. Was that a complicated and expensive job to rewire.

I forgot in my previous post to include the water heater 120v to be separate from inverted power.

Kelvin

[BoldAdventure]

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

I'm investigating whether or not to replace me PD4655 with a Magnum MMS 1012 1000w inverter/charger. I can't justify the 2000w due to price and my current battery capacity.

I'm also planning on 200w solar on the roof. Probably going with an AM Solar package that includes the Blue Sky monitor panel and the Blue Sky solar charge controller. It also seems I will need to have the Magnum remote panel, RC 50, to monitor and set up the Magnum inverter charger. So with the two remotes do most use the Blue Sky to monitor the battery and just use the Magnum remote to monitor the inverter useage and battery charge set up without the Magnum battery monitor kit?

The refrigerator circuit seems to be a shared circuit so how is the fridge isolated from the inverter? Do you just keep the fridge on manual and switch to AC when on shore power and LP when off shore power or is there a way to isolate the fridge circuit from the inverter? I'm sure I'd forgot to switch the fridge over one day and end up with dead batteries.

Kelvin

You'll find yourself monitoring the batteries on the Magnum and monitoring your solar on the Blue Sky. This is pretty much my preferred view. I like seeing how much the solar is pulling in and how much the controller is boosting the current.

On the magnum I can see all the power being used.

[youngpeck]

Kelvin, what is your "current battery capacity"?

Sounds like I'm considering an installation like yours--200 (or 300) watts on the roof, and the AM Solar items you listed. We will have two 6-volt Lifeline GPL-6CT batteries (300 amp-hours), a marine fridge, and a ceramic heater. Interior is gutted right now and we're starting on the wiring, so can run dedicated circuits here and there. Biggest draw on an inverter will be a small microwave.

And I'm wondering if I might need to step up to the 2000-watt Magnum.

[KJRitchie]

Originally Posted by youngpeck

Kelvin, what is your "current battery capacity"?

Sounds like I'm considering an installation like yours--200 (or 300) watts on the roof, and the AM Solar items you listed. We will have two 6-volt Lifeline GPL-6CT batteries (300 amp-hours), a marine fridge, and a ceramic heater. Interior is gutted right now and we're starting on the wiring, so can run dedicated circuits here and there. Biggest draw on an inverter will be a small microwave.

And I'm wondering if I might need to step up to the 2000-watt Magnum.

I'm planning on upgrading to 2 6v GPL-4CT 220ah total. My power needs will be to power the TV, charge laptops only. The only appliance I could see in the future is a juicer.

I wouldn't be able to lift the 6CT being 90lbs each. I'll have to venture to lithium for higher capacity.

Kelvin

[switz]

We put is a new 30 amp main breaker box in the 23D before the Magnum but after the real automatic transfer switch that selects the original power inlet or the added one on the front for the generator which is propane powered off the grill outlet. We then put in a six circuit box from Home Depot with no main since we had that elsewhere.

We removed the 120Vac six gallon water heater and replaced it with a Truma AquaGo comfort that is propane powered with 12Vdc control circuitry. We added outlets in the closets, rear storage area and on the back of the trailer as well as in the toe space that serves as the cold air return for the furnace under the sofa. The air conditioner breaker is always one at the end of the breakers so one side is in free are versus being sandwiched between two breakers. The air conditioner breaker tends to run the warmest of any breaker in either trailer because they almost running continuously in hot weather..

[lewster]

I try not to use the separate sub-panels as I find them bulky and cumbersome. Here is what I use for my Magnum whole trailer wiring. They have a split bus and encompass both main and sub panel functions and come on 30 amp or 50 amp service. Also a more centralized, cleaner installation. They occupy the space of the old converter and fuse block.

[KJRitchie]

Who makes that panel?

How difficult is it to isolate the fridge 120v and the microwave since they each share a separate circuit with wall outlets.

Is it more costly to do that than just to run 3 new wall outlets from a standalone inverter like Airstream does.

I'd prefer to allow all the wall outlets to be inverted when not on shore power rather then 2 or 3 dedicated. Just have the AC, water heater, fridge 120v and microwave available on shore power only.

Kelvin

[KJRitchie]

Originally Posted by lewster

No,

The smaller Magnum MMS-1012 is only a 1000 watt inverter/charger and does not have the power to energize all of your trailer's outlets. Remember that it only has a 1000 watt output, or 8.3 amps @ 120VAC.

You would need the larger MS-2012 for that application.

So if you are only running the wall outlets off this inverter, and have isolated the fridge 120v, water heater, microwave, and AC, wont this work?You have to make sure an appliance or combination of appliances running together will draw no more than 1000 watts. So computer recharging, running an LED TV, running a blender, juicer or coffee maker should run on this system and with some of the above running together like TV and coffee maker.

Kelvin

[switz]

Once the inner skin is installed, the typical way to change wiring is from below running wires in conduit in the banana wrap areas. Thus the concept becomes in a non-factory inverter Airstream to energize every outlet from a new new and capable inverter of 2,000 watts or more. Then the microwave, or a hair dryer could be run briefly off of the battery bank or pass through the 30 amps from shore power.

Installing the Magnum hybrid MSH-3012 gives one access to 3,000 watts of power from the battery bank, and if using a single 2,000 watt Honda generator (or equivalent) to run equipment, the Magnum can take the necessary surge power from the battery bank to start one air conditioner and the one generator can continue to run it. Power would be borrowed at every cycle of the thermostat.

In the case of our 23D with the factory 1,000 watt inverter, the factory inverter was discarded and replaced with the Magnum MSH-3012. The three factory inverter outlets were reconnected under the dinette to another blank circuit breaker in the new circuit breaker box which is powered via the Magnum from either shore power (or the generator) or the 300 amp-hour lithium battery bank.

[BoldAdventure]

They're right Kelvin! Bigger is better. You need 10,000 WATTS!

Not sure how I've lived for a year using 600 watts full time off grid. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

For you, that 1000 watts is too little to power even 1 outlet.

[lewster]

I NEVER go thru the floor or have to remove the belly pan. Way too invasive!! This is what my wire chases look like when completed. Everything runs inside the trailer…………….

The first shows the wire in a front bedroom; 2 runs of 6/3 marine cable and several communication cables to the remotes.

The second shows the finished product. Every time I use this custom aluminum wire chase, the owners say it looks far superior to the grey vinyl 1/4 round molding that Airstream uses and want all of the floor/wall junctions to be done this way.

[KJRitchie]

That is very clean.

I checked the owners manual and it appears my microwave is on a dedicated 20amp circuit as is the A/C and water heater. The converter is shared with the bedroom outlets. It doesn't show which circuit the fridge 120v is on but I'm guessing its the circuit with GFI, Galley,Lavatory, Exterior outlet, Dinette lounge. So I'm assuming from the fuse panel the first outlet is the lavatory, then the kitchen outlet, then the wire goes under the subfloor chase to the fridge then terminates to the rear dinette outlet.

Looks like the only cable run needed is for the fridge 120v if I want to put the non-invertible devices on a separate panel without going with an inverter/charger (A/C, water heater, converter, microwave).

This may not be needed as I will probably just install a 300w to 1000w inverter to one outlet on the fridge/TV wall. I can plug in the TV, laptop charger and a small appliance there.

This owner used a 5 pole cam switch to manual switch fused devices between shore and inverter
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...ry-106585.html

Kelvin

[KJRitchie]

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

Who makes that panel?

Kelvin

Looks like the Progressive Dynamics PD5500 on top and the Progressive Dynamic PD6000 DC panel below all trimmed out with a nice cosmetic face plate. Nice.

Kelvin

[Troutboy]

Does anyone know where you can purchase the panels shown in Lewster's post #32? The PD5500, if I Wanted the 30/30 dual, do you order a special unit, or do you just configure it differently with the breakers?
Thx!