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05-01-2018, 06:16 PM
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#1
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Rivet Master
2004 30' Classic
Johnson City
, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 591
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Stay away from Magnum MMS-1012 inverter chargers
Purchased Magnum MMS-1012-G inverter charger on April 13, 2016. On April 19, 2018, while operating in normal charger mode - no inverter operating - the device started sizzling and smoke appeared. We were doing nothing to the electrical system when it failed.
First, the Magnum inverter is unreliable, as it only lasted 6 days beyond the 2-year warranty. It was in an open space with plenty of ventilation - since the cabinet is not even enclosed yet. Used the inverter several times to recharge our Apple laptop - no other loads. Trailer is on a Progressive Dynamics EMS-PT50X Portable EMS-PT50X RV surge protector. Nothing else in our trailer or home has any power problems.
Second, the Magnum inverter has a ridiculous repair cost. After calling Magnum for repair service, I took the unit to Texas Mobile Power, which Magnum identified as their local repair service. Troubleshooting identified that the AC and FET board smoked. Repair price:
Replacement board = $519
Labor = $125
Tax = $53.13
Total = $697.12
Can speak highly of Texas Mobile Power. They are super responsive. Could repair the unit in a single day.
My original MMS 1012-G purchase price was $849 plus $210 for advanced remote control - $1059 total - purchased via Amazon. Repair is 82% of new price.
Third, I called Magnum customer service technical support. The representative confirmed that repairing a Magnum RV inverter often costs more than buying a new one. He quoted the FET board at near $700. He said that is a common failure on the smaller units.
My conclusion is to stay away from any Magnum product. The original cost is far too high given the unreliable design, short warranty, and terrible repair costs. By design and policy, Magnum inverters have a throw-away repair product.
Am replacing the charging function with a Sterling Power Pro Charge Ultra, 12V x 60A battery charger with a 5 year warranty. This is the most installed yacht-size marine charger in the world and supports up to 3 different batteries simultaneously. Has 11 pre-programmed battery charge curves, including LiPO4, GEL, AGM, Calcium, and Flooded Lead Acid Batteries. Cost is $520 with remote control.
Am replacing the inverter with a Xantrex 806-1210 PROwatt SW 1000, $285 plus transfer switch and remote control. Total $372.
My new system total cost is $167 less than the Magnum.
Expensive lesson learned. Wish the best for other Magnum owners.
73/gus
__________________
Gus - KR4K : Mary - K5MCL
2004 30ft. Classic
2017 Infiniti QX80 Limited
ProPride 3P/Prodigy P3
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05-03-2018, 09:47 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2011 22' Sport
Portland
, Oregon
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 657
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Thanks for the feedback, I just sent this to a buddy who is spec'ing a power system out for a mobile food service truck and had been looking at this very exact Magnum. He is now swayed that Victron is worth the cost difference since failures would cause loss of $$, and a few days of being offline would more than have paid for any savings.
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05-04-2018, 06:38 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2008 25' Classic
Full Time
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,309
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I've had mine, not the G model, for almost two years. What I don't like about the 1012 is the AC transfer is only 15 amps. The beochure for this model stated 20 amps but the specs in the user manual shows 15 amps Tripped the internal breaker one day when I ad a ceramic heater running then turned on the microwave when we were on shore power. Thinking of swapping it out with a Magnum MS 2000 (30 amp transfer)since I have the ME-RC monitor. Will also look into a separate charger and separate inverter configuration too.
Kelvin
__________________
2008 Classic 25fb "Silver Mistress"
2015 Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins. Crew Cab, 4x4, Silver
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05-05-2018, 07:26 AM
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#4
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 19,977
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Just my experience....
Our Zantrex converter 'upgrade' failed on it's first use, leaving us with charge by 2000i for 14 daze. 👎😡👎
Bob
🇱🇷
__________________
"You don't know where you've been until you leave, enjoy life" RLC
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05-05-2018, 08:05 AM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2007 31' Classic
Gulf Breeze
, Florida
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 500
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I have a Magnum 3000 Watt inverter charger and am very happy with it.
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06-21-2018, 12:33 AM
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#6
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3 Rivet Member
Middletown
, Maryland
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJRitchie
I've had mine, not the G model, for almost two years. What I don't like about the 1012 is the AC transfer is only 15 amps. The beochure for this model stated 20 amps but the specs in the user manual shows 15 amps Tripped the internal breaker one day when I ad a ceramic heater running then turned on the microwave when we were on shore power. Thinking of swapping it out with a Magnum MS 2000 (30 amp transfer)since I have the ME-RC monitor. Will also look into a separate charger and separate inverter configuration too.
Kelvin
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Kelvin,
We have the MS2000 and it is a very nice unit.
I have all shore/genset power going thru it and then to our 30A main breaker. That way we can run whatever we want (assuming enough battery power).
We use it to run a coffee maker; 1,825 watt microwave; 1,850 watt hair dryer, and many smaller loads. It barely gets warm.
IMO, the 1012 is simply to small (physically).
We paid about $1,320 for the MS2000.
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06-21-2018, 12:37 AM
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#7
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3 Rivet Member
Middletown
, Maryland
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS
Our Zantrex converter 'upgrade' failed on it's first use, leaving us with charge by 2000i for 14 daze. 👎😡👎
Bob
🇱🇷
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I would avoid Xantrex, at least most models. They are essentially disposable outside of warranty.
Better to pay more up front for Magnum Energy (or some other reliable unit).
Again, I think the 1012 may be too small. I'm referring to the full-size Magnum inverters with built-in ventilation fans.
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06-21-2018, 12:39 AM
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#8
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3 Rivet Member
Middletown
, Maryland
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trumpetguy
I have a Magnum 3000 Watt inverter charger and am very happy with it.
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Magnum has earned a very good reputation.
IDK much about the 1012. It may be their attempt to compete with Xantrex and other less expensive competitors.
Their full-size units are all but bulletproof.
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06-21-2018, 12:43 AM
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#9
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3 Rivet Member
Middletown
, Maryland
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJRitchie
I've had mine, not the G model, for almost two years. What I don't like about the 1012 is the AC transfer is only 15 amps. The beochure for this model stated 20 amps but the specs in the user manual shows 15 amps Tripped the internal breaker one day when I ad a ceramic heater running then turned on the microwave when we were on shore power. Thinking of swapping it out with a Magnum MS 2000 (30 amp transfer)since I have the ME-RC monitor. Will also look into a separate charger and separate inverter configuration too.
Kelvin
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I was surprised to see the 15A output breaker.
The transfer switch (ATS) is rated for 20A continuous, and the input breaker is 20A.
Our MS2000 has 30A breakers and a 30A ATS.
I can't imagine why Magnum would use a 15A breaker on the output.
It seems like the 1012 isn't their best effort.
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06-21-2018, 12:48 AM
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#10
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3 Rivet Member
Middletown
, Maryland
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gklott
Purchased Magnum MMS-1012-G inverter charger on April 13, 2016. On April 19, 2018, while operating in normal charger mode - no inverter operating - the device started sizzling and smoke appeared. We were doing nothing to the electrical system when it failed.
First, the Magnum inverter is unreliable, as it only lasted 6 days beyond the 2-year warranty. It was in an open space with plenty of ventilation - since the cabinet is not even enclosed yet. Used the inverter several times to recharge our Apple laptop - no other loads. Trailer is on a Progressive Dynamics EMS-PT50X Portable EMS-PT50X RV surge protector. Nothing else in our trailer or home has any power problems.
Second, the Magnum inverter has a ridiculous repair cost. After calling Magnum for repair service, I took the unit to Texas Mobile Power, which Magnum identified as their local repair service. Troubleshooting identified that the AC and FET board smoked. Repair price:
Replacement board = $519
Labor = $125
Tax = $53.13
Total = $697.12
Can speak highly of Texas Mobile Power. They are super responsive. Could repair the unit in a single day.
My original MMS 1012-G purchase price was $849 plus $210 for advanced remote control - $1059 total - purchased via Amazon. Repair is 82% of new price.
Third, I called Magnum customer service technical support. The representative confirmed that repairing a Magnum RV inverter often costs more than buying a new one. He quoted the FET board at near $700. He said that is a common failure on the smaller units.
My conclusion is to stay away from any Magnum product. The original cost is far too high given the unreliable design, short warranty, and terrible repair costs. By design and policy, Magnum inverters have a throw-away repair product.
Am replacing the charging function with a Sterling Power Pro Charge Ultra, 12V x 60A battery charger with a 5 year warranty. This is the most installed yacht-size marine charger in the world and supports up to 3 different batteries simultaneously. Has 11 pre-programmed battery charge curves, including LiPO4, GEL, AGM, Calcium, and Flooded Lead Acid Batteries. Cost is $520 with remote control.
Am replacing the inverter with a Xantrex 806-1210 PROwatt SW 1000, $285 plus transfer switch and remote control. Total $372.
My new system total cost is $167 less than the Magnum.
Expensive lesson learned. Wish the best for other Magnum owners.
73/gus
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I'm very disappointed to hear that Magnum wouldn't give you a little "customer courtesy" since you were only 6 days outside the warranty period.
That shortsightedness is going to end up costing them much more than they saved by blowing you off.
One would like to think businesses would be smarter than that -- especially these days where you aren't just telling your friends and family, you're letting hundreds if not thousands of people know how they treated you.
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06-22-2018, 10:05 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
New Borockton
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sajohnson
I'm very disappointed to hear that Magnum wouldn't give you a little "customer courtesy" since you were only 6 days outside the warranty period.
That shortsightedness is going to end up costing them much more than they saved by blowing you off.
One would like to think businesses would be smarter than that -- especially these days where you aren't just telling your friends and family, you're letting hundreds if not thousands of people know how they treated you.
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We carried the Magnums for about a year. After that we dropped them. Just could not get support. Not saying they don't work when they do, just not worth the time.
__________________
Randy...Converters, Inverters, Trimetric, Surge Protectors, Zamp, Smartplug, AGM Batts
888-828-1893
Bestconverter.com
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06-22-2018, 10:56 PM
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#12
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3 Rivet Member
Middletown
, Maryland
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68 Overlander
We carried the Magnums for about a year. After that we dropped them. Just could not get support. Not saying they don't work when they do, just not worth the time.
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I'm sorry to hear that.
Our MS2000 has been trouble-free so far (maybe 5 years now). Hopefully it'll hang in there for several more years.
We have two (2) Trace DR2424 inverters here at our house for backup power. They are 20 years old and still working. IIRC, Magnum Energy was formed by some former Trace employees when Trace was purchased by Xantrex.
Trace had an excellent rep -- they were used on yachts, high-end diesel pushers, and in emergency vehicles.
My impression was that Magnum carried on that tradition.
The MS2000 seems very well made, and the manual is top-notch.
That said, I have called Magnum a couple times -- just to ask a few questions or get some info (nothing adversarial) -- and I have to say that neither conversation was pleasant.
It seems they may be better at building inverters (with the possible exception of the 1012) than they are at customer service.
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07-17-2018, 03:15 PM
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#13
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Wolfwhistle
Margaritaville
, Banana Republic
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 705
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My MS-2012 PSW worked flawlessly for over 4 years. With its highly programmable feature set, 100 amp charger and 3300W peak capacity, I can not say enough good things about it. The smaller inverters don't seem to be near the quality as the larger models. I am thinking about going with a 1000W on the "new" 23FB, but Magnum might not be the best choice. A 2000W is IMO way to heavy and large for what I have now.
WW
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07-17-2018, 07:26 PM
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#14
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3 Rivet Member
Middletown
, Maryland
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfwhistle
My MS-2012 PSW worked flawlessly for over 4 years. With its highly programmable feature set, 100 amp charger and 3300W peak capacity, I can not say enough good things about it. The smaller inverters don't seem to be near the quality as the larger models. I am thinking about going with a 1000W on the "new" 23FB, but Magnum might not be the best choice. A 2000W is IMO way to heavy and large for what I have now.
WW
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You're absolutely right about the size and weight.
We have the MS2000 (almost identical to the MS-2012).
For those who don't know, it weighs over 40 lbs and the case is big -- approx 14x13x7" (others, incl 2012, are 8" tall).
In our case it was relatively easy to install because our View has a large storage compartment under the bed that is accessible from outside the coach. The floor of the compartment is at a height that made it convenient to do the wiring.
I chose that size inverter (2000W) because we wanted to be able to run pretty much anything (within reason) -- even larger loads like a coffee maker; microwave; hair dryer, etc.
As Wolfwhistle mentioned, it also has a very nice 'smart' battery charger that will put out 100A and charge almost any type of battery we're likely to use. That allowed us to save the money we would have spent on a better 'converter/charger', which was a nice bonus.
Finally, the internal 30A transfer switch allowed me to wire it so the entire coach has 120V power all the time. The instant we turn the genset off or disconnect from shore power, the inverter takes over.
Needless to say, as with many mods, it isn't absolutely necessary -- just nice to have. We got tired of not being able to run the microwave, coffee maker, etc, due to generator restrictions.
Wolfwhistle, I'm not familiar with the 23FB, are you you thinking there is not a good mounting location for it?
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07-18-2018, 08:16 AM
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#15
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Wolfwhistle
Margaritaville
, Banana Republic
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sajohnson
Wolfwhistle, I'm not familiar with the 23FB, are you you thinking there is not a good mounting location for it?
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The mystery is how much work to access under belly to / from Power Center. Shouldn't be too hard to get from batteries to under bed platform. I have a good pair of 230Ah FLA that I am going to install (actually have 4, but at 65# each, 2's the limit). To do that I have to space the battery compartment lid up a couple of inches. But, the width and depth are okay.
If one was to go to LiFeP04, they could fit into the wardrobe and all the stuff would be close. I would rather use what I have for now and keep the batteries on the A-frame.
Thx
WW
__________________
Is taking it all with you, really getting away from it all?
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07-18-2018, 04:17 PM
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#16
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3 Rivet Member
Middletown
, Maryland
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfwhistle
The mystery is how much work to access under belly to / from Power Center. Shouldn't be too hard to get from batteries to under bed platform. I have a good pair of 230Ah FLA that I am going to install (actually have 4, but at 65# each, 2's the limit). To do that I have to space the battery compartment lid up a couple of inches. But, the width and depth are okay.
If one was to go to LiFeP04, they could fit into the wardrobe and all the stuff would be close. I would rather use what I have for now and keep the batteries on the A-frame.
Thx
WW
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Sounds good to me.
I'd love to have lithium batteries but just can't justify the cost.
We also have 2 Crown FLA (GC) batteries. They are oversize, taller, and 260Ah each. I'd add 2 more but we're already a bit over the GVWR.
I looked at the diagram. Are you saying you're considering installing the MS2012 under the bed, or are you going with something else?
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07-20-2018, 06:57 PM
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#17
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Wolfwhistle
Margaritaville
, Banana Republic
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 705
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I am debating inverter size. If a ladies hair dryer can run on 1000w that might be the size. I see no reason for the microwave, since if it was up to me, I would ditch it for more storage or a larger fridge. A television can run on 300w and with USBs no need for inverter. I might wait for the need then act.
WW
__________________
Is taking it all with you, really getting away from it all?
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07-20-2018, 08:46 PM
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#18
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3 Rivet Member
Middletown
, Maryland
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfwhistle
I am debating inverter size. If a ladies hair dryer can run on 1000w that might be the size. I see no reason for the microwave, since if it was up to me, I would ditch it for more storage or a larger fridge. A television can run on 300w and with USBs no need for inverter. I might wait for the need then act.
WW
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A hair dryer on low heat might be under 1,000 watts, I'm not sure.
<Later>
In the interest of science, I just measured how many watts DW's hair dryer uses on various settings.
With the fan speed on LOW:
* No heat = ~150W
* Low heat = ~500W
* High heat = ~900W
With the fan on HIGH:
* No heat = ~250W
* Low heat = ~1,000W
* High heat = ~1,750W
If yours is similar it looks like you'll be OK if the fan is left on "low".
As for the microwave, I know many people say they don't use it. We have a lot of frozen food and/or leftovers so we use the microwave quite a bit. Ours takes more power than most (1,825W) but chances are that yours takes over 1,000W.
Depending upon the type of TV, some take as little as 15W.
I'm not sure what you mean by, "...with USBs no need for inverter".
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07-22-2018, 05:47 AM
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#19
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Wolfwhistle
Margaritaville
, Banana Republic
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 705
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Great information SAJ. I picked up a Kill A Watt to test things. Not only can you see instant values / current but also the use over a period of time. You can see how much a freezer uses over a week, for example.
What I meant about USB ports. These are absent from the older 23FB, but I already have 3 to add.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
These don't need 120 vac, obviously. Same with any kind of 12 vdc plug in type. One thing I need 120 vac to charge is my old laptop. I would use my 300 W Samlex PSW.
Something I found that allows you to bring 120vac sockets outside of a space (for these plug in inverters) that also has USB ports. I need to see if they will charge Apple, haven't done that yet.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The logical place for these small inverters is under the bed platform, but I my concern is cooling fan running / noise. I need to research more.
WW
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Is taking it all with you, really getting away from it all?
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