spend big now on AGM or wait?

[stephenh2]

So, I priced the "blue top" battery today at Sam's Club. It was $155 and the lead acid on the shelf was about $70. I need to replace my original Univolt but am not ready to tackle it yet.

1. Do I wait until I replace the Univolt before buying the high dollar battery and bridge over with a lead acid?

2. Is the blue top a decent value for the money?

thanks,

Stephen

[SafariSS]

I am not sure what others have experienced with the Optima blue tops, but my experience has been not as good as I had hoped. I have always had over the top good luck with the red tops in my cars, even had one go 7 years in my old land cruiser.

My original lead acid group 24s went down in charge quality after they approached 2 years old on my Safari 30 from new. I bought two new blue tops and installed them in 8/08. I sit here now today as I type this in a National Forest campground in colorado and have had my two 115w solar panels charging all day in direct sun, at times I had nearly 20a of charge available (obviously it was only charging around .2 amps once fully charged). At dusk my meter said 12.6, an hour before it said 13.3v. By morning with no furnace use, and only one light on for an hour to read by I will be down to 12.1 or 12.2.

I have maintained these batteries, removed them from the unit when not being used etc. I think after this summer I will go to the large battery that Rich Luhr is using, or maybe even two of those as I camp off the grid mostly and want to maximize my solar panels usability. Not sure if the blue tops are really the best value. I think maybe some group 27s and a good maintenance program would serve you better if you did not want to spend 400 bucks on a battery.

One guys opinion.....

[vswingfield]

I replaced the Univolt on my Excella. The battery upgrades are still in the future. I certainly would not submit an expensive battery to the boat anchor otherwise known as Univolt.

I know they were state of the art at the time, but converters are one area where there has been a lot of progress.

When I do upgrade the batteries, I will go with new lead-acid deep cycle ones the same size. They are good for my purposes and much more affordable.

[Mexray]

Being in the battery sales biz for many years, I would NOT recommend the Optima Blue Top DC battery for your AS....

Reading the label carefully, you'll find the BT only has a 55 Amp hr rating! That flooded cell DC battery you looked at probably had close to an 80 Amp Hr rating - that's for a group-24, 10 inch size - the group-27, 12 inch size has about an 105 Amp Hr rating...

The greater the Amp Hr rating, the longer you can run your 12 volt stuff - kind of an electron 'fuel tank' - greater capacity keeps running longer before needing to be 'refilled/recharged'...

If you get around to deciding on an AGM (MK, Lifeline, etc), completely sealed battery 'investment', check out the regular shaped, rectangular types, as they have much greater capacities than those circular celled Optimas...if in doubt, look at the bottom of an Optima and you'll see all the 'void' areas between the circular cells - there's no battery plates in those voids, hence the lower Amp Hr ratings - a rectangular battery has much more plate area spread across the entire battery case, without any 'voids'...

Hope that helps...Ray

[nti06]

If you have an O'Reilly auto parts nearby, go there and check out their Super Start AGM yellow top battery. Its the same as a Deka intimidator battery.

[bryanl]

The first thing to spend money on is your converter. Upgrade that to one that has an intelligent multiple stage charger and also has a maintenance mode that uses a desulfation technique.

While AGM's are nice batteries, they really aren't cost effective in RV use. They tend to cost twice as much but can only be expected to live maybe 50% longer than a wet cell. They still need a proper, vented, battery compartment. They may need some special attention to charging and float voltages. And they are still lead acid batteries that will suffer greatly if not properly used and maintained.

[nick6930]

Spend the money on a new converter. The intelli-Power with charge wizard was sooo easy to install, less than 15 minutes and done. the 2 two wires from the univolt and plug in, screw done in place and done. Then when finances allow go buy a lifeline AMG, you can drain them dead and charge back again. I have gone 5 days boondocking and no issues I dont even know how long I can go beyond that.

[stephenh2]

Originally Posted by nick6930

Spend the money on a new converter. The intelli-Power with charge wizard was sooo easy to install, less than 15 minutes and done. the 2 two wires from the univolt and plug in, screw done in place and done.

So do I have to remove the fuse panel from the Univolt, or did you just leave the whole thing in place and move the wires? I haven't even begun to look into how to replace it. I am sure I can do it, I just haven't learned how, yet. Maybe there is a thread I can find that gives the details.


Thanks everyone for the input. I think for now I will take the less expensive battery. The battery in there now is completely dead or I would just go ahead and put in the new controller. I need a battery just to check out all of the systems and get me up and running. I sure don't want to risk an expensive battery on the Univolt.

Thanks,
Stephen

[TouringDan]

Stephen

I agree completely with Ray and Stephen. You can buy a new intellegent converter and two marine batteries for about the same price of two blue top batteries. It is a no brainer. contact www.bestconverters.com.

Dan

[TouringDan]

Stephen

Sorry, I meant that I completely agree with Ray and Nick. My univolt was completely separate from my 12 volt panel, so I just removed the old univolt and replaced it with the Intellegent converter. There is lots of help here on how to replace your specific univolt on your Airstream.

Dan

[stephenh2]

Okay, so I can get this:

PD9280R 80A Intelli-Power Electronic Power Converter - Shipped for $229.

Is 80 amps acceptible for my '74 Sovereign or do I need to buy something smaller? This is a lot less money that I thought I would have to spend.

Stephen

[vswingfield]

Originally Posted by stephenh2

Okay, so I can get this:

PD9280R 80A Intelli-Power Electronic Power Converter - Shipped for $229.

Is 80 amps acceptible for my '74 Sovereign or do I need to buy something smaller? This is a lot less money that I thought I would have to spend.

Stephen

You could go with something smaller, like a 70 amp one. The original Univolt in my Excella was a 70 amp unit. I went with one of the 80 amp Inteli-Power converters and have been pleased, but you need to be aware that the AC power plug on the 9280s will not fit the plug in your Airstream without an adapter or changing the outlet.

There is some discussion of this and photos of the installation, including the adapter I used, at http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...0-a-57567.html. I got mine at BestConverter.com, and it included the Remote Pendant, also in the photos. If the price you quoted doesn't include the Remote Pendant, you probably will want to get one.

Also, Randy at BestConverter is 68 Overlander here on the forums. He's a great source of help and advice.

[TouringDan]

Stephen

I only have one battery, so I installed a 45 amp converter. 80 amps sounds about right for 2 batteries, but I am really not sure of how converters are sized. Other electrical types on this forum can help with the sizing.

Dan

[bryanl]

you will need to remove the fuse panel and mount it appropriately elsewhere. You may also have an indicator light lead or some such to ignore. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

As for size, you should only charge a pair of batteries at about 40 amps so a converter with more than that really isn't necessary unless you have a lot of DC loads that you need to use when in the first phase of battery charging.

[TouringDan]

Stephen

I guess I would lean toward replacing the converter with the same size as your original univolt. If this is 70 amps then you can get a 70 amp 9200 series Progressive Dynamics Converter from Best Converters for about $203 including the remote pendant. This is about $50 less than the 80 amp model plus it is lighter and smaller.

I am curious why AS would install a 70 amp converter, when Byanl says that anything over 40 amps could be harmful (did I misinterpret something?). Normally the manufacturer's tend to go on the adequate (cheap) side whenever possible.

Dan

[Davern1]

I just removed the three Blue Top optimas in my trailer a couple of weeks ago. My results were similiar to SafariSS. Very weak. I replaced all three with Lifelines which is a huge improvement. There is a place in Texas that has by far the best price on the Lifelines. I can find it tomorrow when I get home from this trip.

[Mexray]

Davern1...here's another way to look at it...

BT Optima = 55 AH

Lifeline GP-24 = 80 AH

You'd have to add another BT for a total of (4) batteries to get about the same AH capacity as your three new Lifelines...!

Optima's are good batteries, don't get me wrong, they're just not suited for RV deep cycle (house) use due to their limited AH rating...IMHO!

Ray

[stephenh2]

Well, I ordered the 9270 from www.bestconverter.com today. I ordered a new fuse block with it, too. I decided not to risk any new battery on the old Univolt, and certainly not a new flat screen tv or dvd player on it. We like our gadgets and to protect them I'll change out the converter and buy a decent flooded deep cycle for the time being. I'll learn what I can about care and maintnance of a 12v system before I spend the big bucks on a battery.

Thanks for the input, I'll be back to this subject if I have any questions on replacing the Univolt.

Stephen

[vswingfield]

I think you did the right thing(s), Stephen.

I'll be watching your progress.

[Lumatic]

Some new converters work better with AGMs than others. Code says AGM batteries need venting. Personally I don't.