Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-07-2010, 06:48 PM   #29
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Arrow

Not really...just a quick way to isolate the batteries when stored for long periods.

Helps prevent deadness...

I just disconnect neg cables...
__________________

__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 07:12 AM   #30
Fuil-Timers
 
DreamStreamr's Avatar

 
2005 25' International CCD
Everywhere , North America
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 631
Images: 38
Send a message via Skype™ to DreamStreamr
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post

The big draw back with the two 6 volt batteries in series is when one quits, your done. When batteries are in parallel, when one quits, you remove it, and you still have a source of power.

"IF" 2 six volt batteries was a better deal than two 12 volt batteries, Airstream would have switched to that many years ago.

The odds of power failure with 2 six volt batteries in series, is "TWICE" that of 12 volt batteries in parallel.

Twelve volt batteries are easily found, not so any more with 6 volt batteries.

Go to Costco, and see how many of each they have on display.

Lastly, more than likely a battery will fail when on a trip. With the 6 volts, your done, no matter what you do. Now your trip has a problem, because you will have to search for 2 batteries.

With the 12 volts, remove the bad one, and replace it when you get around to it, perhaps not until you get back home.

The only test equipment needed for the 12 volt battery setup, is a cheap volt meter.

Andy
I'm not saying Airstream Co should do 6v batteries on new units. But I will stand up for 6v being the better choice for most everyone who can fit them in.

A pair of 6v batteries provide us an awesome improvement in available amp hours and resiliency -- we can draw them way down and they just come back to full strength just fine. First cost was little higher than a pair of 12v, weight is almost fifty percent higher than 12v, and size (for our 6v 225a/h batteries) is a little taller than 12v.

With all due respect, Airstream Co does what's a better deal for Airstream Co. Airstream Co works to a lowest common denominator for its market. They are obliged to, in a big way, to stay in business. We find examples of this scrimping in a lot of things, including the foam mattress, foam in cushions, bimetallic thermostat, single step in lieu of double step (on CCD 22 and many others).

Two 12v batteries are cheaper than two 6v and yes, 12v are available most everywhere. We might not find 6v in Tehachapi or Needles, Ca, or many other places. But we'll always have alternatives, if one of the 6v batteries happens to fail.

My family's 6v cars, a "few" decades ago, were 6v elec systems and used single 6v battery. Maintenance was higher than on nowadays 12v no/low maintenance batteries. But, failure was rare. We're not driving around waiting for 6v batteries to fail on our trailer, either. If it does we can deal with it easily.

If we lose a 6v battery we can go to any local store for a pair of 12 batteries, just like anyone else. It's not like the choice of 6v batteries commits us to some irrevocable path. Just pull the 6v batteries, slip in the 12v ones, and change the jumpers so we're in parallel instead of series.

Whether someone loses a 12v or a 6v battery from a pair, should they not seriously consider replacing the pair and not just the failed one? We've read many places, the new battery and the "good" used one will not work together seamlessly.

Regardless, in the unlikely event we lose one 6v battery or the pair of 6v batteries, we can be back in business as quickly as any RV with 12v batteries.

Just one man's opinion,

Jim
__________________

__________________
Living the Dream

Jim Cocke,
International President
WBCCI Wally Byam Airstream Club
dreamstreamr.com
dreamstreamr.wordpress.com
DreamStreamr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 08:28 AM   #31
3 Rivet Member
 
hshovic's Avatar
 
2007 25' Safari FB SE
Bozeman , Montana
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 222
Images: 20
Results on upgrading batteries: voltage and capacity, 6 v batteries, and performance.

Yes, voltage is only one parameter, but I use it with temperature and battery documentation to estimate remaining charge. See http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...age-46718.html

Also, I installed two 6V batteries two years ago. See http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...tml#post514373.

They have held up fine, and produce enough juice for the job. Last fall I had them load tested (careful of hernia when removing them) and they were up to speed. For another performance check, see http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/performance-report-battery-upgrade-one-year-ago-47574.html
__________________
Hank
WBCCI 1489 AIR 20708
2015 Chevy 3/4 ton 4 x 4 gas; 2007 Safari FB SE
"Its better to light just one candle than to curse the darkness,
Unless you're blinded by the light..."
hshovic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 03:17 PM   #32
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Jim

Parallel batteries are the same as light bulbs.

When a bulb fails in your home, you know ehich one it is. If they were in series, you would have to test every bulb to find the bad one.

That was the same for Christmas tree lights, years ago.

Contrary to opinion, if a 12 volt battery that's a part of a pair fails, it can easily be identified, and removed from the circuit, and life continues on. No need to stop what your doing, and go chase down another one.

With 6 volt batteries, when one fails, your out of business, period.

The myth of 6 volt batteries being better, is total hog wash.

The auto industry changed because 12 volt operation, costs less money to create.

The wire is smaller, and the alternator is half the size.

There is plenty of talk today, with all the 12 volt gadgets that have been added to cars, to change to 24 volts. That again, will reduce manufacturing costs.

When that day comes about, I don't think too many owners will want to put 12 volt batteries in series.

The six volt setup does not offer one single advantage over 12 volts, but does offer many disadvantages.

But, to each his own choices and inconveniences.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 09:30 PM   #33
Fuil-Timers
 
DreamStreamr's Avatar

 
2005 25' International CCD
Everywhere , North America
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 631
Images: 38
Send a message via Skype™ to DreamStreamr
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
The myth of 6 volt batteries being better, is total hog wash.

The six volt setup does not offer one single advantage over 12 volts, but does offer many disadvantages.

But, to each his own choices and inconveniences.
Andy
Andy,
I don't have your breadth of knowledge and wealth of experience. I'm merely a young traveler who worked on cars and machines over the past 42 years. I know my work experience doesn't apply to trailers and doesn't compare with yours.

I've experienced failures on three 12v batteries on two Airstreams in the past five years, had a great time with a hugely expensive 8D AGM on one trailer, and have had two years on this pair of golf cart batteries.

I can happily report zero inconveniences with these two 6v batteries. Monthly I look at the water level, and have added at least a quart of water in the past year. I check and, as needed, tighten the terminals. These batteries produce gaseous discharge (and they're in an outdoor and vented battery box).

Let's see, I must be missing something . . . Nope, that's it. Well, they do weigh more.

Oh yeah, that's the other inconvenience, they weigh more. And you already know what that means -- they're plates are much heavier. But wait, that's a good thing, isn't it? Yeah, they're rated 225 amp/hours for a pair compared to the 12v grp 24's 170 amp/hours per pair.

And they're made for deeper discharge with full recovery. For the very same reason this works on golf carts, where the batteries are capable of running to under 11 volts and still recovering fully, it works for RVs.

Wire size is irrelevant in this argument because the primary line voltage is the same for our system whether from series-paired 6v batteries or a pair of paralleled 12v batteries. We're not running primary wire to the trailer on 6v, it's still a 12v primary run.

Maybe our experience is not the norm, I cannot say. I'll leave that discussion to others. This is our experience based upon one pair of 225 amp/hr 6v golf cart batteries on a well-utilized 25' Airstream trailer.

All this, Andy, is neither myth, nor hogwash. It is all completely true.
__________________
Living the Dream

Jim Cocke,
International President
WBCCI Wally Byam Airstream Club
dreamstreamr.com
dreamstreamr.wordpress.com
DreamStreamr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 10:10 PM   #34
Moderator
 
HiHoAgRV's Avatar

 
1991 34' Excella
1963 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Central , Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,326
Images: 29
Blog Entries: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
...Batteries are made up of a series of 2 volt cells...A 6 volt battery has 3 and a 12 volt has 6 cells. There is nothing that can be done to alter that...The odds of power failure with 2 six volt batteries in series, is "TWICE" that of 12 volt batteries in parallel.
...
Andy
I beg to differ but your logic escapes me on the 2x chance of failure for 6V systems. Actually a double 12V system has 2x the number of cells so logic suggests it has 2x the chance of failure...plus a failed 12V will usually cause the charger to boil the remaining GOOD battery...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
...."IF" 2 six volt batteries was a better deal than two 12 volt batteries, Airstream would have switched to that many years ago....

Andy
Once again, this is probably not a technical decision but an inventory driven decision since they would have to increase the battery holder size (height) for the 6v dual option PLUS stock 6v batteries for the rare time when an enlightened customer ordered double capacity.
__________________
Hi Ho Silver RV! Vernon, Sarah, Mac the Border Collie -
A honkin' long 34' named AlumaTherapy http://www.airforums.com/forums/f205...num-54749.html
and a 26' '63 Overlander, Dolly http://www.airforums.com/forums/f109...ome-71609.html
HiHoAgRV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 10:29 PM   #35
4 Rivet Member
 
1962 28' Ambassador
1962 30' Sovereign
Currently Looking...
Webster Groves , Missouri
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV View Post
I beg to differ but your logic escapes me on the 2x chance of failure for 6V systems. Actually a double 12V system has 2x the number of cells so logic suggests it has 2x the chance of failure...plus a failed 12V will usually cause the charger to boil the remaining GOOD battery...


Once again, this is probably not a technical decision but an inventory driven decision since they would have to increase the battery holder size (height) for the 6v dual option PLUS stock 6v batteries for the rare time when an enlightened customer ordered double capacity.
Excuse me ... but if you loose 1 12 volt battery your system is reduced ... if you loose 1 6 volt battery your system is kaput! Everything else is academic ...
__________________
Xbob2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 10:34 PM   #36
Well Preserved

 
1993 21' Sovereign
Colfax , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 20,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xbob2 View Post
Excuse me ... but if you loose 1 12 volt battery your system is reduced ... if you loose 1 6 volt battery your system is kaput! Everything else is academic ...
True, but the way of the world says you will figure out you have a bad 12 volt battery after the second one is also roasted.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 10:42 PM   #37
4 Rivet Member
 
1962 28' Ambassador
1962 30' Sovereign
Currently Looking...
Webster Groves , Missouri
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63 View Post
True, but the way of the world says you will figure out you have a bad 12 volt battery after the second one is also roasted.
You are way more experienced than me and I bow to your expertise ... but how does your statement invalidate my statement? Just askin' ...
__________________
Xbob2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 10:44 PM   #38
Moderator
 
HiHoAgRV's Avatar

 
1991 34' Excella
1963 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Central , Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,326
Images: 29
Blog Entries: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xbob2 View Post
Excuse me ... Everything else is academic ...
I guess this is where academia and experience diverge...my point was I've never lost 1 of the 12V batteries in a 2 battery system. I have lost several sets of 12 volt batteries when 1 failed and the charging system jumps into the 'i dunno know what to do' mode and fried the other.

Just one guys experience...

Having said that...
I'm stuck with multiple 12V's since the 6's are too tall for my boxes. But I do fully expect for a full system failure when 1 battery decides to 'exit stage left'...I've never had the advantage of a reduced capacity mode failure
__________________
Hi Ho Silver RV! Vernon, Sarah, Mac the Border Collie -
A honkin' long 34' named AlumaTherapy http://www.airforums.com/forums/f205...num-54749.html
and a 26' '63 Overlander, Dolly http://www.airforums.com/forums/f109...ome-71609.html
HiHoAgRV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 10:46 PM   #39
4 Rivet Member
 
1962 28' Ambassador
1962 30' Sovereign
Currently Looking...
Webster Groves , Missouri
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV View Post
I guess this is where academia and experience diverge...my point was I've never lost 1 of the 12V batteries in a 2 battery system. I have lost several sets of 12 volt batteries when 1 failed and the charging system jumps into the 'i dunno know what to do' mode and fried the other.

Just one guys experience...
So ... the point is? 6 volt is better, 12 volt is better ... please explain.
Are you trying to say that no matter what the system all batteries go down at the same time?
__________________
Xbob2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 10:58 PM   #40
Moderator
 
HiHoAgRV's Avatar

 
1991 34' Excella
1963 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Central , Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,326
Images: 29
Blog Entries: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xbob2 View Post
So ... the point is? 6 volt is better, 12 volt is better ... please explain.
Ahhh, the root question...
My experiece suggests that the proper answer is 'the dual 12V is not better...' so don't let that be your decision maker

I have used both styles and when something has gone bad, my entire system has failed. Choosing a dual 12v so 1 of the 2 will let ya limp by hasn't worked for me.

There is nothing like the morning smell of sulfur around the battery box$$$$$
__________________
Hi Ho Silver RV! Vernon, Sarah, Mac the Border Collie -
A honkin' long 34' named AlumaTherapy http://www.airforums.com/forums/f205...num-54749.html
and a 26' '63 Overlander, Dolly http://www.airforums.com/forums/f109...ome-71609.html
HiHoAgRV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 11:12 PM   #41
Chief Chili Cook
 
newroswell's Avatar
 
2010 30' Flying Cloud
Bakersfield , California
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 738
Think of all the golf carts in the world. They're used outside in cold weather and scorching heat from the time the sun comes up - to dark, carrying ungrateful golfers, up and down hills. Then they're put away for a charge overnight only to start the whole thing again at sunrise, EVERY day of the week. Golf cart battery's have evolved to serve this type of environment and they hope to grow up to serve in an RV where life is easy for them.
__________________
newroswell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 11:16 PM   #42
4 Rivet Member
 
1962 28' Ambassador
1962 30' Sovereign
Currently Looking...
Webster Groves , Missouri
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV View Post
Ahhh, the root question...
My experiece suggests that the proper answer is 'the dual 12V is not better...' so don't let that be your decision maker

I have used both styles and when something has gone bad, my entire system has failed. Choosing a dual 12v so 1 of the 2 will let ya limp by hasn't worked for me.

There is nothing like the morning smell of sulfur around the battery box$$$$$
Thank you. Your experience is a help for those of us who don't have the "milage". SO ... lose 1, 6 volt, system hosed ... lose 1, 12 volt, system "probably hosed" ... would that be an accurate summary?
Bob
__________________

__________________
Xbob2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
tired tires Pop Rivet Classic Motorhomes 6 09-03-2006 10:00 PM
Tired 1975 Trade Wind rwnash Member Introductions 3 05-26-2006 06:38 AM
MY Sick 310 JMChrystie Our Community 3 03-07-2004 03:53 PM
I must be sick ? Bfrank Airstream Motorhome Forums 14 08-14-2002 03:30 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.