Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-07-2010, 01:26 PM   #1
1337stream
 
worksology's Avatar
 
2007 27' International CCD FB
Manhattan , Kansas
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 89
Replacing Parallax converter with Xantrex Inverter/Charger

Starting from the factory-installed electrical system (2007 27' International), I'm planning a series of upgrades (new batteries, solar, genset, etc), but the first project is to replace the Parallax 7355 converter with an inverter/charger (I/C), likely one from Xantrex.

My goal is to have ALL the 110V outlets fed by this new inverter. The A/C circuit, however, I'd like to leave on shore-power only. If I understand it correctly, this should be pretty simple by just installing a new breaker box BEFORE the I/C -- one 30A circuit to feed the A/C and another to feed the I/C. Then the IC's 12V output will go to the existing 12V fuse panel, and the 110V output will feed the existing 110V breaker box. Bada bing?

So:

1) Where's a good place to install this new breaker box? Could I do it on the floor BEHIND where the converter is now? It will be largely inaccessible is the only problem.

2) It looks to me like a lot of the I/C units are BIGGER than the converter, and may be difficult/impossible to install in the same spot. Where would be a better place? Or should I look into redoing the whole Power Center for a more custom fit?

3) Is there any reason to install any other components, or replace anything else in the current system? 12V fuse board? 110V breakers? Everything looks & works good as is.

Okay, so which I/C?

I've got my eyes on a Xantrex, since they seem well-reviewed and their prices are competitive. I will be powering an iMac computer, LG LED TV, AppleTV, variety of computer components, recharging phones/iPods, and _possibly_ printing from time-to-time. I don't EXPECT to exceed 1000W of continuous power use, but I wouldn't mind some cushion, either. I've only been looking at pure sine wave units, since MOST of these devices may have negative effects on MSW power.

As far as Xantrex is concerned, that leaves me with two options:

1) Prosine 2.0
2) Freedom SW 2000

I'm not really sure what's so functionally different about these two. The first is a good 3" shorter than the second, so I'd think it might actually fit in the space below the Power Center.

Sorry I'm so verbose. Any thoughts?
__________________

__________________
Josh
worksology is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 02:31 PM   #2
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
it appears some of the terminology is mangled...

or at least confusing.

the p'lax is a charger/converter and can be swapped for another brand/model.

xan'rx used to have a compatible product line but NO LONGER does...

they do still offer inverters.

a current reasonable charger/converter brand is progressive dynamics, they make the intellichrger line.

just to muddy the water more...

IF solar is anticipated, a solar (dc2dc) charger/converter will also be needed.

now what's the question?



cheers
2air'
__________________

__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 02:46 PM   #3
1 Rivet Member
 
Ventura , California
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5
What I did was install a switching relay from WFO available from Best Converter. This way, all the outlets can be powered by an inverter and when shore power is plugged in it switches to that. You need a BIG inverter to power everything, which will drain your batteries in a hurry. I just used the circuit containing the TV so I could power that and a couple of other outlets that are on the circuit.
__________________
rpcarlson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 02:48 PM   #4
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
oh yeah inverters...

having ALL of the 115v outlets connected is a nice idea, but why?

one could quicky and unintentionally drain the batteries.

so having just a few connected means THINKING b4hand, not a bad thing.

inverters aren't 100% efficient and CONSUME juice, unless turned OFF.

so don't upsize too much beyond need.

have u calculated HOW QUICKLY 1000 watts will deplete 2 grp 27 batteries?

are u planning to have 4 or mor batteries?

lastly most new campers grossly over estimate how much livin will be...

OFF the grid.

IF much time is actually spent boondocking...

WATER is the primary limitation, especially with children in the equation.

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 03:11 PM   #5
Rivet Master
 
DaveFL's Avatar
 
2000 31' Land Yacht
2000 Land Yacht 30(31') , Inverness, between the Withlachochee River and the Gulf of Mexico, Fl
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,297
Images: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
have u calculated HOW QUICKLY 1000 watts will deplete 2 grp 27 batteries?

IF much time is actually spent boondocking...

WATER is the primary limitation, especially with children in the equation.

cheers
2air'
Your 1000 watts is at 120v while the battery is 12v so you have to have 10000 watts at 12v plus conversion loss.

With extra water supply you need more waste tankage as more places don't want black or even grey water on the ground.

I used heart 2500 watt on the boat, but it was just for microwave, tv but more importantly it had the ability to be a 100 amp 12v charger that could run of the generator a/c.
__________________
DaveFL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 03:48 PM   #6
1337stream
 
worksology's Avatar
 
2007 27' International CCD FB
Manhattan , Kansas
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
it appears some of the terminology is mangled...or at least confusing.
I'm sorry, where ya not keeping up?

I think it's pretty simple: I want to replace our OEM converter/charger with an inverter/charger. The latter will do 3-stage charging better than the converter's simple 1-stage charging, and will provide the ABILITY to run 110V devices from the batteries WHEN needed.

Sure, a full 1000W load will drain our current batteries in no time flat, but I'm not suggesting we'll use such a load for extended periods, nor on a single pair of Group 27s. (Project Upgrade Battery Bank is status: Future).

Having ALL the outlets wired & ready for inverted power avoids thinking ahead, yes, but it also avoids keeping track of which outlets are powered whichaway, and I like both sides of that equation. The complexity associated with making bad decisions ahead of time (choosing which circuits to power and then CHANGING my mind) outweighs the complexity of simple power management when boondocking. (I'll UNPLUG devices if I need a firm reminder). Moreover, I just don't see a reason not to. YMMV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
now what's the question?
Well, it certainly wasn't "I'm stupid. Do I need an inverter?" or "What unrelated things will be necessary when/if I add solar?"

How about: Anyone have thoughts on those Xantrex I/Cs? They're spec'd almost exactly the same, cost roughly the same, but the Freedom is MUCH bigger.

Are there better I/C options? I don't suspect I'll ever need 2000W, even if our battery bank allowed it, so I think these two Xantrex units might be over-spec'd, but I'm having a hard time finding more reasonable alternatives.

Does my wiring plan sound right? Add a new breaker panel which becomes the "main panel", with 2 circuits: A/C & Inverter, and then use the current "main panel" as the inverter-distribution panel. Any ideas on where to install these two new items? Does anyone happen to know the available clearance once the Parallax converter is removed?
__________________
Josh
worksology is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 04:36 PM   #7
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFL View Post
...With extra water supply you need more waste tankage...
agreed, which is why the reference is just "water" and meant to encompass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by worksology View Post
...How about: Anyone have thoughts on those Xantrex I/Cs?...?
yeah, i vote for option #3...

the RVseriesGS...

after all it's got RV in da'name.
________

have you posted or read on the rvnet forum or escapee-z forums?

lots more folk on both/either site with experience making tweaks like this

and with many more techsperts posting details.

almost anything is possible and been disclosed on those 2 sites.

keep at it!

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 04:43 PM   #8
Rivet Master
 
mello mike's Avatar
 
1958 26' Overlander
Mesa , Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,742
Images: 53
Hi Josh,
I did this upgrade to my '72 Sovereign last March. I replaced my old converter/charger with a Xantrex Freedom 10 (1000W) Inverter/Charger. All of my 120v inlets are wired to my inverter and it works terrific. This install should involve the installation of another fuse box. My inverter input is wired to the old fuse panel (along with the A/C), while the new fuse box houses my 120v inlets. I have two Size 27 batteries and they are more than sufficient to run my electronics (satellite receiver, DVD player, and LCD TV). We don't have a microwave in our Sovereign so we don't need to worry about socking it to the batteries.

I bought my Xantrex Freedom 10 for about $400 bucks and it has a built in relay to switch over to shore power when it senses this input. A fine unit and very easy to install.

My Blog has more details and pics of the installation.
__________________
1958 Overlander
2011 Wolf Creek 850N TC
2011 Ford F-250 Crewcab (6.2L), 3.73RE

WBCCI #5661/AIR #5661/TAC # AZ-6
4CU 1st VP

My '58 Overlander Restoration and Travel Blog:
http://mellomikesairstreams.blogspot.com/
mello mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 04:55 PM   #9
1337stream
 
worksology's Avatar
 
2007 27' International CCD FB
Manhattan , Kansas
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
i vote for option #3... the RVseriesGS...
I do like that one a lot, actually. It's got some great features. But its modified-sine-wave output is why I've dismissed it completely. If I was on-board with MSW, I'd have a LOT more options to peruse, but I've kinda limited my focus to true sine wave because of the nature of the devices I'll be using. I'm quite open to being convinced otherwise.
__________________
Josh
worksology is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 05:02 PM   #10
1337stream
 
worksology's Avatar
 
2007 27' International CCD FB
Manhattan , Kansas
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mello mike View Post
I did this upgrade to my '72 Sovereign last March. I replaced my old converter/charger with a Xantrex Freedom 10 (1000W) Inverter/Charger.
I've seen your posts and they've been very helpful. I'm sure I'll be reading them again & again once I get ready to do the work. Thanks for the update, glad it's working so well for you.

Have you had any issues with the modified-sine wave output? Any distortion on the TV?
__________________
Josh
worksology is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 05:04 PM   #11
Rivet Master
 
mello mike's Avatar
 
1958 26' Overlander
Mesa , Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,742
Images: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by worksology View Post
Have you had any issues with the modified-sine wave output? Any distortion on the TV?
Nope, none whatsoever.
__________________
1958 Overlander
2011 Wolf Creek 850N TC
2011 Ford F-250 Crewcab (6.2L), 3.73RE

WBCCI #5661/AIR #5661/TAC # AZ-6
4CU 1st VP

My '58 Overlander Restoration and Travel Blog:
http://mellomikesairstreams.blogspot.com/
mello mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 05:17 PM   #12
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
clearly, pure sine wave is more desirable.

but this gets back to what, when and how used.

with big loads my genset is ON and is very very clean (the eu/inverter series from hon')

everything i might plug INTO an outlet has it's own brick for conversion/cleaning juice...

that includes the tv/puters and so on.

nothing used takes OVER ~150 watts so using small 'device specific' inverters has worked without issues, or gadget failure.

this involves a decision branch (bigger central inverter vs 2-3 small ones) much like 6v vs 12v or gas vs diesel or meat vs veggies...

my approach was "try it" using the lower cost/less UProoting approach first then switch to plan B when needed.

so far plan b is still not needed OR cost effective.
________

but u are planning to use a higher draw AC only computer and that means bigger inverter/more cells and so on...

(the new imacz have no external brick, but still convert to dc voltage i think)

or as my cab driver/spiritual leader/podiatrist sez...

"everyone travels a different path to the same place"

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2010, 03:32 PM   #13
3 Rivet Member
 
1986 25' Sovereign
Plant City , Florida
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
clearly, pure sine wave is more desirable.

but this gets back to what, when and how used.

with big loads my genset is ON and is very very clean (the eu/inverter series from hon')

everything i might plug INTO an outlet has it's own brick for conversion/cleaning juice...

that includes the tv/puters and so on.

nothing used takes OVER ~150 watts so using small 'device specific' inverters has worked without issues, or gadget failure.

this involves a decision branch (bigger central inverter vs 2-3 small ones) much like 6v vs 12v or gas vs diesel or meat vs veggies...

my approach was "try it" using the lower cost/less UProoting approach first then switch to plan B when needed.

so far plan b is still not needed OR cost effective.
________

but u are planning to use a higher draw AC only computer and that means bigger inverter/more cells and so on...

(the new imacz have no external brick, but still convert to dc voltage i think)

or as my cab driver/spiritual leader/podiatrist sez...

"everyone travels a different path to the same place"

cheers
2air'
I know this is an old thread but I thought it might be helpful to some. Wouldn't a capacitor help clean this AC power up? This could be a cheap solution if the modified sine wave causes issues for some?
__________________
ck21084 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 03:56 PM   #14
4 Rivet Member
 
Zigidachs's Avatar
 
2011 30' Classic
West Linn , Oregon
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 283
Images: 1
Inverter/ converter

Just found this post. The stock inverter in the AS is the Parallax 7400 but is not a pure sine wave unit. I just spoke with a rep from the company and he didn't even know if the unit was a MSW!!??? Apparently it is a only 2 stage converter.

Lifeline stated that the Parallax is "ok" with their AGM batteries, but the PD ( Progressive Dynamics) units "would be better".

In our fifth wheel we had a Prosine 2.0--great unit but we also had a lot of battery power. Didn't need that much. Like most, we overestimated our use.

Another option is the Magnum Energy product line---PSW, 1000W, and a FOUR stage converter, which is best for AGM batteries.
__________________

__________________
Zigidachs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
charger, electrical, inverter, upgrade, xantrex


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Xantrex Converter/Charger 68 Overlander Commercial Listings 6 07-25-2012 08:01 PM
Converter fan noise - parallax vs others Jammer Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 4 05-11-2010 08:59 PM
My Xantrex Freedom 10 Inverter-Charger Installation mello mike Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 2 03-22-2010 04:04 PM
Parallax Converter Replacement with Xantrex SilverGate Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 18 10-03-2009 08:49 AM
Parallax charger with temp control Pacerized Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 2 04-21-2007 07:16 PM





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.
Modal Click