prices of Magnum MS2812 2800W Inverter with 125 Amp Charger

[CA_Tallguy]

Yes, I agree with lewster. There is a lot to wire and strategy and goals to consider since a unit like this ties together the AC and DC systems quite a bit. As lewster says, most people don't want to hook up all their AC power outlets and devices to an inverter and the battery bank so they can make sure there are not any extra drains on the system than necessary when you are trying to conserve power. But these booster units contemplate running things like the air conditioner through it when normally that would be split aside to only have power when shore or generator power is available. Breaking out a sub panel might be all that is needed but I'm not sure.

I have not thought through all these issues yet and it may be a bit hard for me to fully figure out as I am so DC power focused right now. I have solar and I don't use a generator. As I said previously, I almost never use my charger/converter as the solar handles my DC needs pretty well even while I have access to shore power.

I've browsed the manuals for these similar boosting charger/inverter units and they do have some features to try to keep the draw down, such as "search" mode where it pulses current looking for a load. I think a setting can make it so things like microwave clocks and such don't trigger the inverter. But the search mode itself consumes about 7 watts which I think is more than half an amp at 12 volts. That's a big chunk of power out of my solar! (I get around 7 to 12 amps during daylight hours.) So I am pretty sure that I wouldn't want that search mode running all the time so I would need to make sure I could turn that off and on at will. Or that I could unplug the whole unit when I want and not lose settings and such.

I've got 100 questions like that that I need to explore before going for something like these units.

I would also be getting a generator if I do go down this road as my goal would be to have more AC current luxury while on the road. But at the same time, I have the solar and I want to make sure that it gets MORE usage with a charger/inverter system and generator, not less. My gut is telling me that they may take precedence over solar unless the system is thought out carefully.

[LFC]

When camping....If you have a generator to plug your shore line into whats the need for an inverter ?


And what good is an inverter without a generator ?

na da

[lewster]

Originally Posted by LFC

When camping....If you have a generator to plug your shore line into whats the need for an inverter ?


And what good is an inverter without a generator ?

na da

Inverters take the place of a generator for many 120VAC loads and can all but eliminate the need for a generator for just about everything but the roof A/C unit. You don't need a generator to have an inverter, but you surely need an appropriately sized solar array and battery bank to satisfy your energy demands.

Don't confuse and inverter/charger with a converter/charger. Both units need shore power (or generator power) to use the charging sections to keep your batteries charged.

A converter will create 12VDC from shore power to charge your batteries and power your trailer's 12VDC loads.

An inverter/charger will also provide for charging your batteries from shore power, but it is wired into your 120VAC distribution system to use your 12VDC battery power when off-grid to supply selected 120VAC outlets in the trailer with a specified amount of 120VAC house current. No generator required to do this last feature. It actually replaced the generator, but like I stated above, you then need a solar charging system to keep your batteries full.

WHY? Some folks don't like generators and don't need A/C, so they install solar and inverters to provide for their 120VAC needs when off-grid.......things like a microwave, TV watching and charging of electronic devices.

CA_Tallguy, You can turn a Magnum inverter totally off so there are no parasitic loads by either using the on/off button and setting the load search to 'off' in the ME-RC remote, or setting the search high enough so the inverter does not search for loads below a certain threshold.

[LFC]

A 12 volt system without a constant charge is not going to last very long when trying to convert 12 volts to 110 volts out of a car sized battery....what 5 minutes ?

An inverter in a camping trailer without the use of a generator is about like teats on a boar hog....

but a generator with a camping trailer plugged into it iz like teats on a sow hog....

[Skater]

Originally Posted by LFC

A 12 volt system without a constant charge is not going to last very long when trying to convert 12 volts to 110 volts.

That depends on what you're running off of it and for how long, and what kind of battery capacity you have. If you're not interested in a topic, you don't have to post about it to explain your disinterest.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by LFC

A 12 volt system without a constant charge is not going to last very long when trying to convert 12 volts to 110 volts out of a car sized battery....what 5 minutes ?

An inverter in a camping trailer without the use of a generator is about like teats on a boar hog....

but a generator with a camping trailer plugged into it iz like teats on a sow hog....

A decent-quality inverter's load on the battery depends on what it's powering. It's about watts and watt-hours, not volts.

I use a 600W inverter to power my CPAP when boondocking, because it was cheaper to buy a decent inverter than to buy a new CPAP with a 12v input. A group24 would run it for 10 hours or so, but I use an AGM so I can charge it inside. I don't have solar, so I do use a generator, but if I lived someplace with nicer weather than Texas in the summer, I'd have solar instead.

PS: The CPAP doesn't use anywhere near 600W, even with the humidifier running, that was just the best deal I found for efficiency vs. capacity vs. price.

[CA_Tallguy]

The main reason we are discussing these particular inverters is that they can BOOST current from a generator so you can use a smaller one to start and run an air conditioner. For this purpose, these inverters are only supplying big power for a few seconds during starting. Then, after running, the used power from the batteries is replenished from the generator or another source. We're not talking about running an AC off of batteries for long periods of time.

[LFC]

Originally Posted by Skater

That depends on what you're running off of it and for how long, and what kind of battery capacity you have. If you're not interested in a topic, you don't have to post about it to explain your disinterest.

The reason I posted was to hopefully save someone from wasting their money....the last truck I had came with a power inverter it would hardly run a skill saw with the engine running......and would do nothing without the engine running.

Trying to get 110 volts out of 12 volt car batteries is senseless.

[LFC]

Originally Posted by CA_Tallguy

The main reason we are discussing these particular inverters is that they can BOOST current from a generator so you can use a smaller one to start and run an air conditioner. For this purpose, these inverters are only supplying big power for a few seconds during starting. Then, after running, the used power from the batteries is replenished from the generator or another source. We're not talking about running an AC off of batteries for long periods of time.

At the prices you guys are talking wouldn't it be a better (more economical) investment to just buy a generator big enough to run the AC ?

[lewster]

Originally Posted by LFC

The reason I posted was to hopefully save someone from wasting their money....the last truck I had came with a power inverter it would hardly run a skill saw with the engine running......and would do nothing without the engine running.

Trying to get 110 volts out of 12 volt car batteries is senseless.

Some folks feel that adding larger battery banks, sizable inverters and solar charging systems is NOT a waste of money but rather an investment in their trailers that is both an environmental statement and a way to get clean, quiet power on demand without being connected to the grid or having to carry additional flammable liquids and heavy power generation equipment.

And contrary to your experience, a properly designed, sized and installed solar charging system with appropriate battery bank (a car battery is NOT the proper type of battery for this usage as it is a starting battery and NOT a deep cycle battery) and quality inverter can produce way more 120VAC power than you would think.

I can run virtually any corded power tool from my service van that I wish, including a 1800 watt heat gun, from my 500 watt solar array, 300 amp/hour Lifeline battery bank and Magnum MS-2812 inverter/charger. My batteries have never gone below 12.5VDC with extended usage of these tools and recharge rapidly on a sunny day.

I install these systems professionally, and I have more work than I can handle while I am in the NorthWest this summer, so it would seem to me that you are perhaps in a minority, especially among Airstream owners.

You also never specify the parameters of your inverter system that came with your last truck. How about giving us some accurate details from which to make an intelligent discussion........rather than posting your opinion that is perhaps based on your experience with inferior components installed in a less than ideal situation.

And just for the record; AC refers to 120VAC residential power and A/C refers to the RV air conditioner commonly found on the roof of Airstreams and other RVs. Let's not confuse this dichotomy.

[LFC]

Originally Posted by lewster

I can run virtually any corded power tool from my service van that I wish, including a 1800 watt heat gun, from my 500 watt solar array, 300 amp/hour Lifeline battery bank and Magnum MS-2812 inverter/charger. My batteries have never gone below 12.5VDC with extended usage of these tools and recharge rapidly on a sunny day.

I install these systems professionally, and I have more work than I can handle while I am in the NorthWest this summer, so it would seem to me that you are perhaps in a minority, especially among Airstream owners.

I don't doubt you can from a "service van"....last I looked we were talking camping trailers.

Lets keep it simple....one has a gasoline engine the other doesn't.

[matthorr]

Originally Posted by lewster

Actually, adding a large inverter/ charger for both AC and DC use does require quite a bit of re-wiring. The smallest wire I use for battery to inverter runs is 2/0 with 4/0 for runs over 5'. They also need the proper size of Class T fuse and fuse block.

Then you need to run an ' in loop' and and an 'out loop' to and from the inverter for 120VAC, plus a couple of 30 amp breakers. Not to mention the re- wire of the existing breaker box's 30 amp 120 VAC input, all 10/3 cabling minimum, depending on the length of the wire runs.

Nothing really difficult, but you surely need to know what is going where of you will have one mess on your hands !

I hadn't considered yet needing to "up size" the existing wire runs for just the inverter, but I have read that it's required for solar. It's going to take some strategy planning to figure out what to do when to get to the final goal.

In general, I thought the inverters were designed to take the place of the converter, but route the AC shore power through the inverter on the way to the AC panel with the necessary extra breakers already in the inverter. Adding the hybrid inverter shouldn't be much different than adding a non-hybrid in how it is connected, no? They both tie AC and DC systems together but the hybrid does some "magic" inside the box.

[LFC]

Originally Posted by lewster

I install these systems professionally, and I have more work than I can handle while I am in the NorthWest this summer, so it would seem to me that you are perhaps in a minority, especially among Airstream owners.

You also never specify the parameters of your inverter system that came with your last truck. How about giving us some accurate details from which to make an intelligent discussion........rather than posting your opinion that is perhaps based on your experience with inferior components installed in a less than ideal situation.

And just for the record; AC refers to 120VAC residential power and A/C refers to the RV air conditioner commonly found on the roof of Airstreams and other RVs. Let's not confuse this dichotomy.

I think everyone that owns an Airstream knew what I was referring to when I said AC.....my inverter was factory installed.

Sorry I interrupted your sales meeting....

Here's a free tip......You might do better in the Motorhome section those guys have gas motors capable of putting out lots of voltage.

[matthorr]

Originally Posted by LFC

At the prices you guys are talking wouldn't it be a better (more economical) investment to just buy a generator big enough to run the AC ?

Yes - more economical. Better - depends. I have a generator that can barely start the AC, but no more (yamaha 2400iSHC). A hybrid inverter could keep me from overloading it when I try and use anything else while keeping the generator size small. And solar for boondocking so I don't have to pull out the generator unless I need A/C.

For me, I want solar and an inverter anyway. The hybrid would be a convenience - keep the small generator and not overload it as often. And insurance to not trip a weak campground breaker and come back to a hot trailer because the A/C (and AC) quit.

[LFC]

It's pretty common knowledge that it takes a minimum of 3000 watts to run an AC unit.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by LFC

It's pretty common knowledge that it takes a minimum of 3000 watts to run an AC unit.

Guess I'm just lucky then, because I can run my Coleman rooftop AC (but nothing else at the same time) on 2500 watts, which is the output of my Onan propane generator.

[lewster]

Originally Posted by LFC

I think everyone that owns an Airstream knew what I was referring to when I said AC.....my inverter was factory installed.

Sorry I interrupted your sales meeting....

Here's a free tip......You might do better in the Motorhome section those guys have gas motors capable of putting out lots of voltage.

Thank you for your 'informative and unsolicited' comment! If you have read anything I have said in my 4200 posts, I DO NOT commercialize any of my statements! Sales have no part of my postings on this Forum.

And let me add a 'free tip' of my own. Engines, whether gas or diesel, have no bearing at all on this conversation or thread! I don't know, nor do I care where you are coming from with that remark.

And a bit of information for you also: the majority of solar and inverter systems that do I install are on Airstream TRAILERS, NOT motor homes.

[switz]

The challenge is to design the solar array to replenish the used battery energy in a reasonable amount of time.

We are looking to use at least four Lifeline 6Vdc 300-amp hour batteries at 93 pounds each. One can rapidly use up the trailer payload and create a tremendous amount of tongue weight by adding six or eight of these model batteries to create a truly self sufficient trailer unit without needing generator input when off grid.

So use a pencil to figure all these parameteres out with a knowledgable installer or solar system designer and then decide if the pen can sign that large solar system cost check or one would rather use a generator instead.

[CA_Tallguy]

Originally Posted by matthorr

I hadn't considered yet needing to "up size" the existing wire runs for just the inverter, but I have read that it's required for solar. It's going to take some strategy planning to figure out what to do when to get to the final goal.

In general, I thought the inverters were designed to take the place of the converter, but route the AC shore power through the inverter on the way to the AC panel with the necessary extra breakers already in the inverter. Adding the hybrid inverter shouldn't be much different than adding a non-hybrid in how it is connected, no? They both tie AC and DC systems together but the hybrid does some "magic" inside the box.

The biggest difference is in how these units tie AC and DC together more on the consumption side, and since you say you are not going to upgrade batteries at first, you really need to understand exactly how that is going to work. Right now for me, I only enable my AC inverter at very specific times and connected directly to very specific loads when I don't have shore power so there is no extraneous draw on the DC system.

I'm not sure about the wiring and placement for electrical components in your trailer, but in general, you need very thick wiring from the inverter/charger to your battery bank as the inverter can pull a LOT of current very, very quickly out of the batteries. It will not be able to work at the specified capacity without. Heavy welding cable is a good option for this wiring run. It is likely that you may need even heavier cable than you have now for your converter (which only needs heavy enough cable for the charging amps in a converter only configuration).

Also, I believe that this unit is generally going to be the first stop of your incoming shore power cable, though perhaps that isn't required. It has a number of AC input transfer switching capability which is why I think it is contemplated to be first. Wiring runs for AC current are more flexible as you can run AC for longer distances without voltage drops and current becoming as much of an issue as it is with DC. But my shore power connection is in the back and converter is in front.

Then you have the AC output from the unit which needs to feed your regular AC panel or an AC sub panel. My AC panel is towards the rear of the trailer while my converter is in the front.

One other consideration is that I believe these devices are not supposed to be mounted directly in the same space as batteries since batteries can put off explosive gasses. In my trailer, I would probably want to make some changes to isolate the batteries and this unit if I were to place it where my (mostly unused) converter is now.

I am guessing that most installs will also have the remote so there is also the wiring for that.

Probably more to consider as well but this is just from the top of my head.

[CA_Tallguy]

Originally Posted by switz

The challenge is to design the solar array to replenish the used battery energy in a reasonable amount of time.

We are looking to use at least four Lifeline 6Vdc 300-amp hour batteries at 93 pounds each. One can rapidly use up the trailer payload and create a tremendous amount of tongue weight by adding six or eight of these model batteries to create a truly self sufficient trailer unit without needing generator input when off grid.

So use a pencil to figure all these parameteres out with a knowledgable installer or solar system designer and then decide if the pen can sign that large solar system cost check or one would rather use a generator instead.

One thing I've been coming across lately is people converting to Lithium batteries (LiFePO4?). I don't know much about this yet but apparently they are like 1/2 to 1/3 the weight of other batteries AND you can use more of the amp hours out of them without damaging them. Very, very expensive but huge game change in stored energy options if these claims are true (but at a $$$ price)