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Old 02-02-2012, 10:09 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Wayne&Sam View Post
Can you explain that or point me somewhere that does explain it?

Thanks.
Sorry, did not get back to this post for a while. All I can say is that the other two attempts to explain the issue of Power Factor were reasonable, but I have some issues with what they said exactly, yet cannot do a better job myself. It kinda takes a comprehensive degree in Electrical Engineering and a lot of classes and math to do a complete job of the subject, and I have not had that full background either.

But the shorter answer is that a Honda 1000 ei will put out 1000 watts (short time, long time more like 900 watts) into a resistive load such as a heater or an incandescent light bulb. But because of the issue of power factor, on inductive loads, switching power supplies, and the like, what may seem like a load under 1000 watts, may, to the Inverter in the generator, seem like well over 1000 watts causing it to trip out under overload.

A PD 9260 (60 amp) converter/charger will trip out a Honda 1000 ei. Trust me, I have done it....lol. A PD 9245 (45 amps), will not, again from personal experience. Based on output rating one might say well 60 amps x 12 volts = 720 watts output, and say 10% loss due to conversion the load should be about 800 watts on the input side, and it should not trip the generator out. Again, due to the bugaboo of power factor, I have measured what the generator actually sees as well over what would seem to be 1200 watts.

To much information probably. Lets just leave it to the actual fact that a PD 9245 will run on a Honda 1000 and a PD 9260 will overload it.

Wheew, I quit now.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:13 PM   #44
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OK,
Here is a very simple (perhaps as in stupid) explanation:
If the load has more inductance than capitance , the peak current will lag behind the peak voltage. This retardation of current is a property of inductors. That is a whole other lecture. (it has to do with magic stuff like magnetic fields) If the load is more capacitive, the current peak will lead the voltage peak because of the current inrush to charge the capacitance. The net effect of this is the the peak current and peak voltage do not occur at the same time. The power available is the instantaneous power time the instantaneous voltage. since the peaks do not occur at the same time, the peak power is not the product of peak voltage times peak current. The power factor is a expression of how much difference there is.

Since the generator is goofing off and not paying attention, it still produces power equal to the peak voltage time the peak current.

The difference in the power produced and power used is dissipated as heat in the Load. If the difference if great enough, the load will burn up.

If this is still not clear, watch the entire Harry Potter series. Then you won't care anymore.

Ken
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:24 PM   #45
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Yes, cut cord = no warranty but I took that chance given the high ratings of the DLS 55 here and elsewhere. I guess I could have installed a 110V outlet in the area behind the PS but this project was on the tail end of sealing the rear bumper (3 day job) and I was too lazy to make another trip to the hardware store. Good call though for those who might be about to install a new unit. - Brad
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:33 PM   #46
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Brad, I just completed my retrofit install of my IOTA DLS-55 this afternoon. I called Randy regarding clipping the cord. His suggestion was to sacrifice the female end of a 15-amp extension cord and wire that in as a plug. This is exactly what I did and it was FAR easier than wiring an outlet and helped me save my warranty.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:39 PM   #47
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Thanks Chris. I'll just have to cross my fingers. I've made costlier mistakes!
Brad
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:46 PM   #48
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Yeah, the price of the convertor is not THAT bad, and it obviously comes highly recommended. I think you'll be fine. I was also thinking about your install. I was able to reinstall the top plate of the convertor section of the old 7300; the piece that the top row of cover screws attaches to. Was there a reason that you ended up not using yours?
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:01 AM   #49
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Thumbs up Sounds like this threads on a roll!!

Congrat's to all....

Bob
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:02 AM   #50
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Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westfalia View Post
Yeah, the price of the convertor is not THAT bad, and it obviously comes highly recommended. I think you'll be fine. I was also thinking about your install. I was able to reinstall the top plate of the convertor section of the old 7300; the piece that the top row of cover screws attaches to. Was there a reason that you ended up not using yours?
Chris, none except I threw it away I'll probably fabricate something to replace it when I get bored.

What I carelessly omitted from my posts is how thankful I am for this thread and the forum as a whole. You all lead me to Randy and the Iota as well as so many other great ideas and experiences. I only hope that I can eventually contribute at least a quarter of what I have received in excellent advice, so freely given.

Thanks,

Brad
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:35 AM   #51
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OK,
Here is a very simple (perhaps as in stupid) explanation:
If the load has more inductance than capitance (snip)

Since the generator is goofing off and not paying attention, it still produces power equal to the peak voltage time the peak current.

(snip)

If this is still not clear, watch the entire Harry Potter series. Then you won't care anymore.

Ken
Ken, pretty damn good. The threat of watching the entire Harry Potter series made me say that. Thanks!
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:56 AM   #52
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A slight distraction from a helpful thread

For those of you interested in such things:
The below link points to what I believe to be a schematic diagram for the IQ-4 module in a Iota convector.
If you examine it in detail, you will see some highly sophisticated techniques.

xkcd: Circuit Diagram

Ken
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:05 AM   #53
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Hey, it's got both a Flux Capacitor and magic smoke. I'm impressed.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:08 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by w7ts View Post
For those of you interested in such things:
The below link points to what I believe to be a schematic diagram for the IQ-4 module in a Iota convector.
If you examine it in detail, you will see some highly sophisticated techniques.

xkcd: Circuit Diagram

Ken
I don't know squat about circuitry, but nonetheless highly recommend Ken's link.
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Old 07-27-2012, 12:42 PM   #55
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So it seems a 1000w generator will work with a 9245 converter but not with the 9260. Has anyone tried it with a DLS-55? Will it trip the gen?
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:52 PM   #56
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It depends on the load on the converter. On very rare occasions will you ever load either converter to the max. Especially the 60 amp model. If you are loading it to the max. You are running way too much stuff. IMHO
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