Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-21-2017, 07:44 PM   #43
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
New Borockton , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,256
Images: 21
Also, the sniffers (Lp smoke detectors) can sometimes reset the timer so if you want to rule out any voltage change, pull those fuses for long term storage. Just don't sleep in the Airstream if you do (Why did I have to say that part?)
__________________

__________________
Randy...Converters, Inverters, Trimetric, Surge Protectors, Zamp Solar, AGM Batteries
www.bestconverter.com
68 Overlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2017, 07:46 PM   #44
Rivet Master
 
The Colonel's Avatar
 
2017 25' Flying Cloud
Navarre , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 544
Thx 68. Didn't want to seem paranoid, just wanted some + feedback on installation.
__________________

__________________
The Colonel and Southern Belle
The Colonel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2017, 07:54 PM   #45
4 Rivet Member
 
2014 23' FB Flying Cloud
Park City , Utah
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 457
Question on output

Maybe Randy can chime in here.

I will be installing my 4655 upgrade I got from Bestconverter, but am curious about something.

While I know the voltage starts 14.4 for boost charge, then then down to 13.6 for normal and 13.2 for float mode, what are the accompanying amps?

Is the amperage output higher at boost charging, and drops down as the battery charges? How does amperage play into the whole charging puzzle? For instance, with my two Interstate Group 24s, I have a total of 168 amp hours of storage, so 84 hours useable to avoid draining the batteries more than 50%. So using power in the trailer that draws 8 amps, would give me roughly 10 hours of power.

Is the reverse correct then...that charging at 8 amps output would take 10 hours, 16 amp output would take 5 hours, etc? And in that case, what is the output of the PD4655?

I also am curious about generator output. My Honda EU 2000 puts out 13-16 amps AC, i.e. plugged in as shore power, but what would the converter put out to charge the batteries. It also puts out 8 amps at 12 volts if the DC output is used and hooked directly to the batteries. In that case, I'd be at 10 hours of generator useage to replenish my 50% depleted batteries.

Would it be faster/more efficient to run the generator AC output to the converter to charge the batteries?
__________________
pcskier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2017, 08:23 PM   #46
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
New Borockton , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,256
Images: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasams View Post
I took delivery of a brand spanking new 2017 FC in Aug. We hit the road and have been staying in full hook-up parks the whole time. Guess what? We did some beach boondocking down in Baja and my May 2016 batteries are fried Had to buy a new pair at the Costco in Cabo san Lucas. Now back in the US and am placing my order for the PD 4655 with BestConverter.

Why oh why did AS install that POS Parallax unit? I'd gladly have paid them the $25 difference in the OEM cost
This is how it works...Parallax had them for a LONG time because Parallax makes a decent reliable product, but don't stop reading. Most of you guys aren't replacing them because the failed, but rather because they are failing your batteries often multiple times. Airstream could care less after the warranty period is up. Parallax will make it through the warranty period or they wouldn't use them. That said...

I don't have the exact numbers but I expect most new Airstream buyers are first time RV owners at or nearing retirement age with a little coin in the 401K and want a good trailer. Or a younger couple with some jingle to spend.

This topic does not often come up at the dealership because Joe Public is none the wiser. It comes up 6-12-24 months later when they find you guys and can't understand why they buy expensive batteries every year or two.
Progressive Dynamics and the Boondocker converters know how to extend the life of batteries and the proof is in the sales of the aftermarket upgrades.

Most of the vintage crowd has known this for years and have already upgraded to a modern 3 or 4 stage converter/charger.

I was in Elkhart (not where airstreams are built but you knew that) but where 95 percent of all RVs are built and learned Airstream might have switched to the WFCO brand exclusively. They are the cheapest on the market for OEM. Somebody might be able to confirm as I know some models already use them.

Finally, we do send a lot converters to Airtstream dealerships for customers that won't take delivery unless its upgraded before signing the final papers so that is an option but they usually won't pay for it unless it's a deal breaker.
__________________
Randy...Converters, Inverters, Trimetric, Surge Protectors, Zamp Solar, AGM Batteries
www.bestconverter.com
68 Overlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2017, 08:36 PM   #47
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
New Borockton , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,256
Images: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcskier View Post
Maybe Randy can chime in here.

I will be installing my 4655 upgrade I got from Bestconverter, but am curious about something.

While I know the voltage starts 14.4 for boost charge, then then down to 13.6 for normal and 13.2 for float mode, what are the accompanying amps?

Is the amperage output higher at boost charging, and drops down as the battery charges? How does amperage play into the whole charging puzzle? For instance, with my two Interstate Group 24s, I have a total of 168 amp hours of storage, so 84 hours useable to avoid draining the batteries more than 50%. So using power in the trailer that draws 8 amps, would give me roughly 10 hours of power.

Is the reverse correct then...that charging at 8 amps output would take 10 hours, 16 amp output would take 5 hours, etc? And in that case, what is the output of the PD4655?

I also am curious about generator output. My Honda EU 2000 puts out 13-16 amps AC, i.e. plugged in as shore power, but what would the converter put out to charge the batteries. It also puts out 8 amps at 12 volts if the DC output is used and hooked directly to the batteries. In that case, I'd be at 10 hours of generator useage to replenish my 50% depleted batteries.

Would it be faster/more efficient to run the generator AC output to the converter to charge the batteries?
The boss is your battery's internal resistance. As they charge, they resist as they near full charge. The 4655 has 55 amps ready to go, less any other DC loads since it's shared.

Voltage is the force that attempts to overcome and force amps/current into your batteries. This is why I don't recommend big is always better. Sometimes you won't realize the higher amp output in smaller battery banks. 55 Amps is normally fine for up to 2-4 batteries unless you bring them way down like you're not supposed to anyway.

Your EU 2000 will run that converter fine and you will see faster charging using it as a power supply for your converter than using the DC part of the generator. The converter will have the ability to put out ALL of its output. Unless somthing has changed, I'd ignore its DC charging function and use your converter instead. It's a better charge profile anyway.
__________________
Randy...Converters, Inverters, Trimetric, Surge Protectors, Zamp Solar, AGM Batteries
www.bestconverter.com
68 Overlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2017, 08:41 PM   #48
4 Rivet Member
 
2014 23' FB Flying Cloud
Park City , Utah
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 457
Randy--UGH! Did I get the wrong converter?

OK, massively confused here!

I ordered a PD4635. This is because I have a Flying Cloud 23 FB. The trailer is in storage, so I looked at the manual, which referred to Parallax 7300, and the wiring schematic for the 23 FB states "30A Main Circuit."

So in looking at the options on Bestconverter.com, it shows the PD4635 as being 35 amps, and the 4655 being 55 amps. So I ordered the 4635.

While I visited the trailer the other day, I took a photo of the power center just for the heck of it to double check. The one I have is the Parallax Model 7355, 55 Amp model. Why would there be a 55 amp model in a 30 amp trailer? Does Airstream just use one model that covers both 30 amp and larger 50 amp trailers, so it's overkill on the 30 amp trailers but also covers the 50 amp trailers?

In any case...according to the cross-reference chart on Bestconverter.com, the PD4655 is the replacement for the Parallax 7355. Do I need to return the 4635 and replace with a 7355? (It's still in the box).

Boy do I feel dumb but I figured since I had a 30 amp trailer I had a 30 amp converter And THANKS for answer to previous question re: direct generator charging vs Generator feeding the inverter. Good to know!

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0248.jpg
Views:	58
Size:	266.2 KB
ID:	281865
__________________
pcskier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2017, 09:26 PM   #49
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
New Borockton , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,256
Images: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcskier View Post
OK, massively confused here!

I ordered a PD4635. This is because I have a Flying Cloud 23 FB. The trailer is in storage, so I looked at the manual, which referred to Parallax 7300, and the wiring schematic for the 23 FB states "30A Main Circuit."

So in looking at the options on Bestconverter.com, it shows the PD4635 as being 35 amps, and the 4655 being 55 amps. So I ordered the 4635.

While I visited the trailer the other day, I took a photo of the power center just for the heck of it to double check. The one I have is the Parallax Model 7355, 55 Amp model. Why would there be a 55 amp model in a 30 amp trailer? Does Airstream just use one model that covers both 30 amp and larger 50 amp trailers, so it's overkill on the 30 amp trailers but also covers the 50 amp trailers?

In any case...according to the cross-reference chart on Bestconverter.com, the PD4655 is the replacement for the Parallax 7355. Do I need to return the 4635 and replace with a 7355? (It's still in the box).

Boy do I feel dumb but I figured since I had a 30 amp trailer I had a 30 amp converter And THANKS for answer to previous question re: direct generator charging vs Generator feeding the inverter. Good to know!

Attachment 281865
Don't feel dumb, it happens all the time. Converters are rated in their DC amp output, not the AC input which is eaither 30 or 50 amp service.
I'd exchange it and frankly wish we didn't even have to fool with the 4635 or 4645 but FOR SOME REASON they want to confuse the people. A 55 amp converter is fine for one or 4 batteries. In 15 years I've had exactly 0 people wish they had a smaller than 55 amp unit but that's not to say the 35 won't keep up.
__________________
Randy...Converters, Inverters, Trimetric, Surge Protectors, Zamp Solar, AGM Batteries
www.bestconverter.com
68 Overlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2017, 09:58 PM   #50
4 Rivet Member
 
2014 23' FB Flying Cloud
Park City , Utah
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68 Overlander View Post
Don't feel dumb, it happens all the time. Converters are rated in their DC amp output, not the AC input which is eaither 30 or 50 amp service.
I'd exchange it and frankly wish we didn't even have to fool with the 4635 or 4645 but FOR SOME REASON they want to confuse the people. A 55 amp converter is fine for one or 4 batteries. In 15 years I've had exactly 0 people wish they had a smaller than 55 amp unit but that's not to say the 35 won't keep up.
AHHHH that makes sense AC input rating vs. DC output.

I sent you an email to Bestconverter.com and your gmail address about this, I definitely want to do the exchange. Let me know the process, I guess I ship mine back then you can ship out a new one I after pay the difference plus shipping on the new one. I also will add the pendant, seems convenient to select boost charge when topping off with the genny. Thanks, I'll wait for a reply back on email with shipping instructions...just need correct address.

Peter K
__________________
pcskier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2017, 10:57 PM   #51
4 Rivet Member
 
2014 23' FB Flying Cloud
Park City , Utah
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 457
Parallax 8300 (replacement for 7300) is 3-stage?

I am replacing my Parallax 7355 with a PD4655, but am still always researching...probably more than I should. Parallax has replaced the 7355 with the 8355 series, and the description on their web site state:

'The 8355 is a 30 Amp Power Center with a three stage 55 Amp Converter Charger'

Do we assume they have finally upgraded to a 3-stage system, or was the 7355 3-stage as well--but I'm understanding something incorrectly? Everything I've every read on the forum states that the Parallax 7300 series was a "one--stage" unit (which to me means it was either "on" or "off".) And would 'cook' the batteries because it was 'on' too much. (That's the simple way I inferred it)

Any illumination on this?

I need to stop trying to become an expert...and just frigging go camping.
__________________
pcskier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2017, 06:04 AM   #52
GLCMRANGER - Sue
 
2016 25' International
Littlestown , Pennsylvania
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 118
Its NOT! I replaced my 8355 with the PD4655. Call Randy at Best Converter to verify. He'll probably respond here on the forum.
__________________
glcmranger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2017, 02:33 PM   #53
4 Rivet Member
 
2014 23' FB Flying Cloud
Park City , Utah
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by glcmranger View Post
Its NOT! I replaced my 8355 with the PD4655. Call Randy at Best Converter to verify. He'll probably respond here on the forum.
I've been convinced enough to install a pd4655 but am just really curious about what is "3 stage" about the Parallax 8355. Their site has limited technical info.
__________________
pcskier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2017, 09:23 PM   #54
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
New Borockton , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,256
Images: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcskier View Post
I've been convinced enough to install a pd4655 but am just really curious about what is "3 stage" about the Parallax 8355. Their site has limited technical info.
It's not, period. I heard they might start calling it one but it's not. They flow through my warehouse everyday to those that want them but it's not a 3 stage. It's a single stage. When they want to get serious about a multi stage, I will be there but they just won't listen. I've know Marty Redd, their lead tech for at least 12 years and his pitch is always about how the converter doesn't know what it's connected to, the battery or the DC system. Nothing is going to change soon, the engineers are not RV people, they are power supply people. They have it all figured out apparently with their marketing but still don't make one. I have dozens or hundresd of them in my warehouse of all models and they are single stage. They sell to people that just insist on what was in there stock. Some Airstream but a bunch of ole Magnetek since Parallax bought them years ago and it translates over on their web and ours.
__________________
Randy...Converters, Inverters, Trimetric, Surge Protectors, Zamp Solar, AGM Batteries
www.bestconverter.com
68 Overlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2017, 10:45 PM   #55
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
New Borockton , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,256
Images: 21
Geez, I sound like a salesman up there but guys, it's just what works. I'm trying my best to make it best I can and come up with the best solutions. Everybody has an opinion but I can only learn more from you guys if you will keep telling me what you want in a $200 converter/charger. I can certainly provide a $500-1000 charger that doesn't make sense unless you live to be 150. If you are sold on temp compensation, I have 11 years on my Lifelines (outside) in Idaho with a standard converter. You can't sell me with the chemistry claims you read for a travel trailer battery unless its free and even the data is not there. Just theory. I'd rather have a 4 stage unless I was storing in Greenland ha. Same with MPPT solar controllers on most Rvs. Been through it enough times but value opinions.
__________________
Randy...Converters, Inverters, Trimetric, Surge Protectors, Zamp Solar, AGM Batteries
www.bestconverter.com
68 Overlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2017, 11:55 PM   #56
4 Rivet Member
 
2014 23' FB Flying Cloud
Park City , Utah
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68 Overlander View Post
Geez, I sound like a salesman up there but guys, it's just what works. I'm trying my best to make it best I can and come up with the best solutions. Everybody has an opinion but I can only learn more from you guys if you will keep telling me what you want in a $200 converter/charger. I can certainly provide a $500-1000 charger that doesn't make sense unless you live to be 150. If you are sold on temp compensation, I have 11 years on my Lifelines (outside) in Idaho with a standard converter. You can't sell me with the chemistry claims you read for a travel trailer battery unless its free and even the data is not there. Just theory. I'd rather have a 4 stage unless I was storing in Greenland ha. Same with MPPT solar controllers on most Rvs. Been through it enough times but value opinions.
We probably drive you nuts! Gonna put in the PD4655 when I get it from you next week and just forget about all this and obsess about something else! (Which will probably be adding the Trimetric monitor!) Then solar but I'll hassle Lewster with that ��
__________________

__________________
pcskier is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Progressive Dynamics 4655 (PD4655) noise waldosgone Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 46 05-15-2017 10:35 PM
Progressive Dynamics PD4655 Converter/Charger thinairflyer Airstream Classifieds 0 04-23-2016 05:42 PM
charge rate of PD4655 grizbear Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 11 05-04-2015 01:29 PM
PD4655 Converter Questions RubyDog Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 7 02-27-2015 05:25 AM
PD4655 Converter No. 13 Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 80 10-17-2014 11:44 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by



Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.