|
|
02-16-2014, 02:58 PM
|
#1
|
Rivet Master
2006 23' Safari SE
I'm In
, Kentucky
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,251
|
No power to inverter
2006 Safari 23'
My WF-600T inverter had a couple of blown fuses so I removed it, replaced the fuses and now I don't have any 12v input to the inverter. When I removed the positive cable it touched the chassis ground wire and sparked.
I thought it went straight through to the batteries but there must be another fuse or breaker somewhere. I'm a newbie so not sure where to look. The 12v lines go into the wall, just behind the battery box.
Thanks
Rich
|
|
|
02-16-2014, 05:27 PM
|
#2
|
Rivet Master
2006 23' Safari SE
I'm In
, Kentucky
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,251
|
I found a nest of wires, a bus, what looks like some kind of relay, etc. in the left front. There is an access panel under the couch with very limited room. I can see the inverter wires but it's such a tangle that I can't find a fuse or breaker.
If I could get the box that's just under the window, removed, I could have easy access. I 've taken out the screws on the top (4) and the arm that's on the right (2) but I don't see anything else to remove, yet that section won't come out. There is a box that's part of this configuration but there's no fasteners inside of it.
I feel so stupid for touching that wire, a rookie mistake. I should know better. I was so happy that I found those fuses inside the inverter then got careless and touched that hot wire. I'd give anything for that minute of my life to live over again.
Any help would be appreciated. It would be of benefit to know what I'm looking for; bayonet fuse, in-line fuse, breaker... how to take the couch off.... anything.
Thanks,
Rich
|
|
|
02-16-2014, 05:40 PM
|
#3
|
Rivet Master
1969 31' Sovereign
Broken Arrow
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,455
|
You say no 12V to the inverter or is it no 120V out of the inverter.
Most inverters have resettable push button circuit breakers on the output side.
The fuses normally protect the input side for reverse polarity so I wonder if you had swapped out the battery or disconnected for any reason.
Other than that you must have a circuit breaker or fuse in line with the battery and it would probably be close to the battery or could be at the 12VDC fuse panel. Should be a fairly large red wire from the battery.
__________________
Garry
|
|
|
02-16-2014, 05:42 PM
|
#4
|
Rivet Master
2015 30' Classic
2012 28' International
Greensboro
, North Carolina
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,708
|
Rich, there is a very substantial in-line fuse that you've blown. (They cost around $40, BTW). It is located behind a black plastic shield that's located in the box that you can't get to. The heavy positive battery wire goes from your battery to one side of the fuse. Then you have the fuse. On the other side you'll find the red wire that goes to the positive side of your inverter. How do I know this? Well, I replaced my 700 W inverter with a 2000 W model and inadvertently touched the positive to ground. (Accidents happen?) I traced the circuit and found the fuse. NOT easy to get to, and not cheap to replace. Barry
__________________
_________________
"SilverLeaf II" 2015 30' Classic
2019 RAM 2500 Limited 4x4 CC w/6.7L Cummins
ProPride 3P
AIR# 58452
WBCCI # 3430-Unit 21
|
|
|
02-16-2014, 06:31 PM
|
#5
|
Rivet Master
2012 30' International
1997 25' Safari
1967 20' Globetrotter
Burlington
, Ontario
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,499
|
Richw46
My system uses a DC FA 200 Class T fuse that is available from a distributor of Samlex America products and can be seen on their website. There are a few different types available. I have not been able to buy from them direct.
BAB, did you have to go to thicker wire when you went from 700 to 2000 watts on your inverter? Jim
__________________
Jim
|
|
|
02-16-2014, 06:41 PM
|
#6
|
Rivet Master
2015 30' Classic
2012 28' International
Greensboro
, North Carolina
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,708
|
Yup. Not hard to do once I got access to it. I did the rewire at the same time I did a solar install and put in two Lifeline AGM's.
__________________
_________________
"SilverLeaf II" 2015 30' Classic
2019 RAM 2500 Limited 4x4 CC w/6.7L Cummins
ProPride 3P
AIR# 58452
WBCCI # 3430-Unit 21
|
|
|
02-16-2014, 06:51 PM
|
#7
|
Rivet Master
2006 23' Safari SE
I'm In
, Kentucky
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,251
|
Well rats!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BAB
Rich, there is a very substantial in-line fuse that you've blown. (They cost around $40, BTW). It is located behind a black plastic shield that's located in the box that you can't get to. The heavy positive battery wire goes from your battery to one side of the fuse. Then you have the fuse. On the other side you'll find the red wire that goes to the positive side of your inverter. How do I know this? Well, I replaced my 700 W inverter with a 2000 W model and inadvertently touched the positive to ground. (Accidents happen?) I traced the circuit and found the fuse. NOT easy to get to, and not cheap to replace. Barry
|
Of course it's expensive . This is day 1 with our airstream (towed it home last night) and I feel so stupid for doing something like this. I was being careful (or so I thought) and that wire was stiff, fingers cold and it just takes a second.
Previous owner said she ran a vacuum on that circuit. I did a search and found that inverter has 2 internal 35 amp fuses. Sure enough, they were blown. I replaced the fuses and put it all together again and found no power coming in.
If I could get that storage box out it wouldn't be too bad. The wife is all over my case for taking everything apart on the first day. I'm just not having a good start on this adventure.
Thanks for the reply and information. I'll look for the box tomorrow, although I think I know what you're talking about. I have no clue as to how I can get to it without removing the storage box.
Rich
|
|
|
02-16-2014, 06:52 PM
|
#8
|
Rivet Master
2012 30' International
1997 25' Safari
1967 20' Globetrotter
Burlington
, Ontario
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,499
|
No power to inverter
BAB,
Thank you. My system is put together with #4 awg wire so the capacity is limited. It originally had a 1500 w inverter but I changed it to 2000, but retained the smaller fuse to go with the original #4 awg wire. Hope it's ok. Jim
__________________
Jim
|
|
|
02-16-2014, 06:55 PM
|
#9
|
Rivet Master
2006 23' Safari SE
I'm In
, Kentucky
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,251
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by garry
You say no 12V to the inverter or is it no 120V out of the inverter.
Most inverters have resettable push button circuit breakers on the output side.
The fuses normally protect the input side for reverse polarity so I wonder if you had swapped out the battery or disconnected for any reason.
Other than that you must have a circuit breaker or fuse in line with the battery and it would probably be close to the battery or could be at the 12VDC fuse panel. Should be a fairly large red wire from the battery.
|
Thanks for the reply Gary. It's the 12v line input. Input voltage was the first thing I checked. When disconnecting it I touched it to the ground wire. I'm REALLY sorry I did that. I knew I blew a fuse, just not where it is. I have my work cut out for me.
Rich
|
|
|
02-16-2014, 08:06 PM
|
#10
|
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Flower
BAB,
Thank you. My system is put together with #4 awg wire so the capacity is limited. It originally had a 1500 w inverter but I changed it to 2000, but retained the smaller fuse to go with the original #4 awg wire. Hope it's ok. Jim
|
Jim,
4AWG cable to a 2000 watt inverter…..really? IMHO, IT IS NOT OK! The Magnum manual specifies 2/0 cable for wire runs up to 5' between the battery and inverter, and 4/0 up to 10' runs. These are coupled thru a 300 amp class 'T' fuse, located no more than 18" from the batteries (per NEC).
2/0 is the MINIMUM cable size that I use, even with a 1000 watt inverter.
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
|
|
|
02-16-2014, 08:37 PM
|
#11
|
Rivet Master
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill
, Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,014
|
Guess it depends on the size of fuse installed. Hope they are sized to protect the wire.
|
|
|
02-16-2014, 09:05 PM
|
#12
|
Rivet Master
2006 23' Safari SE
I'm In
, Kentucky
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,251
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Flower
Richw46
My system uses a DC FA 200 Class T fuse that is available from a distributor of Samlex America products and can be seen on their website. There are a few different types available. I have not been able to buy from them direct.
BAB, did you have to go to thicker wire when you went from 700 to 2000 watts on your inverter? Jim
|
Thanks, Jim. I checked with the previous owner and he said he took the couch apart a while back, to have it recovered. He says it has to be taken apart box by box. I guess once I get everything out I'll have access to the fuse. I see donrowe.com web site stocks the one you referenced, for $35
|
|
|
02-17-2014, 05:31 AM
|
#13
|
Rivet Master
2012 30' International
1997 25' Safari
1967 20' Globetrotter
Burlington
, Ontario
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,499
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
Jim,
4AWG cable to a 2000 watt inverter…..really? IMHO, IT IS NOT OK! The Magnum manual specifies 2/0 cable for wire runs up to 5' between the battery and inverter, and 4/0 up to 10' runs. These are coupled thru a 300 amp class 'T' fuse, located no more than 18" from the batteries (per NEC).
2/0 is the MINIMUM cable size that I use, even with a 1000 watt inverter.
|
Thanks Lewster. Is it correct to assume that this applies to all +& - wires on the battery side of the inverter, including the wires connecting the 4 batteries? Jim
__________________
Jim
|
|
|
02-17-2014, 10:05 AM
|
#14
|
Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Flower
Is it correct to assume that this applies to all +& - wires on the battery side of the inverter, including the wires connecting the 4 batteries?
|
Current in equals current out. Same wire gauge throughout, unless you really want the smaller wires to get hot due to increased resistance.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
|
|
|
02-17-2014, 02:43 PM
|
#15
|
Rivet Master
2012 30' International
1997 25' Safari
1967 20' Globetrotter
Burlington
, Ontario
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,499
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist
Current in equals current out. Same wire gauge throughout, unless you really want the smaller wires to get hot due to increased resistance.
|
Thanks for helping. Since the Airstream came with 4 awg on the battery side of things and the Samlex manual suggests 150 amp fuse for 4 awg, perhaps I should just put in a 150 amp fuse and if it blows, reduce my ac needs. In other words, even though I have a 2000 watt inverter, don't use more than 1000 watts. I am trying to convince myself that I can avoid rewiring the Airstream by just ensuring that the wiring is still protected. Jim
PS "current in equals current out" another dah moment for me. Thanks for reminding me to remember something that I once new but had obviously forgotten? No shaking your head, Lewster.
__________________
Jim
|
|
|
02-17-2014, 04:17 PM
|
#16
|
Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Flower
PS "current in equals current out" another dah moment for me. Thanks for reminding me to remember something that I once new but had obviously forgotten? No shaking your head, Lewster.
|
Well, it is a gross simplification, and doesn't account for voltage drop over distance or other losses. Entropy does still apply, after all, so current in equals current out isn't exactly true. But when laying out circuits, best to assume that it is true and use the same wire gauge throughout the circuit.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
|
|
|
02-17-2014, 06:02 PM
|
#17
|
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
|
One of the beauties of DIY is that you can get away with things like under sizing wire, making loads of resistance generating connections, and using the wrong size fuses. If I did stiff like that, or even hinted at it……. my a$$ would be gra$$
IMHO, spending a few bucks more for the proper gauge wiring makes a lot of sense, especially when your peace of mind and physical well-being may be at stake.
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
|
|
|
02-17-2014, 06:41 PM
|
#18
|
Rivet Master
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill
, Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,014
|
Most manufactures of inverters recommend not loading the inverter to more than 80% of the rated capacity. Especially if that load is constant.
Even if the #4 wire is THWN-2 it is only rated at 95 amps which equates to 1140 watts at 12 volts.
Not much point in using a 2,000 watt inverter.
Whereas THWN 2/0 wire is rated at 175 amps. That's 2,100 watt capacity.
How much trouble is it to pull in new wire?
|
|
|
02-17-2014, 07:33 PM
|
#19
|
Rivet Master
2012 30' International
1997 25' Safari
1967 20' Globetrotter
Burlington
, Ontario
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,499
|
OK. Now I'm frightened. The Samlex manual says to use 2x#2 awg wire along with a 300 Amp DC-FA-300 fuse. I know what the fuse is but I don't understand the wire requirement. Are they saying to use THHN 2/0 gauge? If they are, I will do that. Jim
__________________
Jim
|
|
|
02-17-2014, 07:50 PM
|
#20
|
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Flower
OK. Now I'm frightened. The Samlex manual says to use 2x#2 awg wire along with a 300 Amp DC-FA-300 fuse. I know what the fuse is but I don't understand the wire requirement. Are they saying to use THHN 2/0 gauge? If they are, I will do that. Jim
|
I prefer class K welding cable. Use it exclusively!
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|