Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-03-2012, 08:12 AM   #43
4 Rivet Member
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Eureka , California
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 321
"Don't these ATS switch's have to be UL certified for home, marine or rv use?"
=========
Parts installed that are not considered user serviceable, or parts of the user's function, are not normally subject to UL approval. I think the ATS is an embed.
__________________

__________________
redwoodguy is offline  
Old 07-03-2012, 08:44 AM   #44
3 Rivet Member
Commercial Member
 
Greg@AirLA's Avatar
 
1960 24' Tradewind
Riverside , United States
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 112
http://www.parallaxpower.com/ATS/ATS...20BULLETIN.pdf
I believe this is the transfer switch used.
Greg
__________________

__________________
Greg Paulsen
Greg@AirLA is offline  
Old 07-03-2012, 08:47 AM   #45
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by redwoodguy View Post
"Don't these ATS switch's have to be UL certified for home, marine or rv use?"
=========
Parts installed that are not considered user serviceable, or parts of the user's function, are not normally subject to UL approval. I think the ATS is an embed.
UMMM....?

Are there any safety standards that transfer switches must meet?

The National Electrical Code requires that all manual and automatic transfer switches be UL-1008 listed by Underwriters Laboratories, and carry the UL-1008 label. This is in annex A of the 2002 National Electrical Code.

If a transfer switch meets this tough safety standard, and has been certified by Underwriters Laboratories, it will carry the UL-1008 label. This label will clearly say one of the following:

UL LISTED AUTOMATIC TRANSFER SWITCH FOR EMERGENCY SYSTEMS

UL LISTED AUTOMATIC TRANSFER SWITCH FOR USE IN OPTIONAL STANDBY SYSTEMS

UL LISTED TRANSFER AND BYPASS-ISOLATION SWITCH

UL LISTED NON-AUTOMATIC TRANSFER SWITCH

All ASCO transfer switches are UL listed for their intended application.

I see that the P-lax ATS is listed as ETL compliant.


Bob
__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline  
Old 07-03-2012, 09:01 AM   #46
4 Rivet Member
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Eureka , California
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg@AirLA View Post
http://www.parallaxpower.com/ATS/ATS...20BULLETIN.pdf
I believe this is the transfer switch used.
Greg
OIC, it is a stand alone box, not an embedded switch.
__________________
redwoodguy is offline  
Old 07-03-2012, 11:03 AM   #47
3 Rivet Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 104
Images: 3
Thank you very much for the continued updates.

From the literature Parallax Power claims it will handle 30A continuous with 40A spikes. This is obviously not the case for me or others I suspect. My specifics are electric hot water mode, AC on and wife using curling iron. Without warning the trailer AC just pops off and everything is dead without tripping a breaker. This happened both with 30A shore power as well as 50A shore power. The ATS is failing during normal usage and I bet not at 30 amps continuous when it pops. If the switch will hold a 40A spike it should trip the breaker at the trailer and then at the shore box, which this has never happened. I could not get the shore connection to work again but thankfully the generator connection worked with a 20 amp feed. I would never design to the working load in this case. If it were me I would design to working load plus 50% say 45A with another 25% surge say 56A, but that is me.

This is stupid engineering and/or quality issues.

I would not accept the same replacement from Airstream and do believe strongly that a manual switch should be installed period.
__________________
mtntime is offline  
Old 07-03-2012, 12:02 PM   #48
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Nowhere , Somewhere
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,417
Blog Entries: 2
How many amps do the water heater, curling iron, and air pull if all at once. Overloaded? Jim
__________________
avionstream is offline  
Old 07-03-2012, 12:45 PM   #49
3 Rivet Member
Commercial Member
 
Greg@AirLA's Avatar
 
1960 24' Tradewind
Riverside , United States
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 112
The schematics say 12a for water heater, 16a for air, 2.7a refrigerator (30.7 so far) up to 8a for converter....curling iron ? 1000 watts about 9a.

Greg
__________________
Greg Paulsen
Greg@AirLA is offline  
Old 07-03-2012, 01:25 PM   #50
3 Rivet Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 104
Images: 3


Greg, Thanks for the numbers. Puts things in perspective.

The schematics say 12a for water heater, 16a for air, 2.7a refrigerator up to 8a for converter.. (38.7 so far)!!! curling iron ? 1000 watts about 9A for a grand possible total of 47.7A

So the designed normal operating load on shore power is 38.7A!

I must say I am quite surprised as this has been normal trailer life (electric hot water, electric fridge, converter, Air Con, and blow dryer or curling iron) for us for over twenty years with 4 different trailers. I would have never thought to add it all up because it has never caused a problem. The only time we have had a problem is when someone would microwave with everything else on and then it would just trip one of the smaller breakers not the main, certainly not shutting the whole trailer down.

It must also be normal for the other users who are having the same exact issue.

If this is the case then the ATS should be rated for 50A not 30A or otherwise work under normal/usual operating conditions.
__________________
mtntime is offline  
Old 07-03-2012, 01:56 PM   #51
Rivet Master
 
2005 19' Safari
GLENDALE , AZ
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,441
In our travels, we have found that most older campgrounds only have 20 amp or 30 amp service. I think this limitation has been around for a long time, and most people recognize that they can't use all of their electric appliances simultaneously. We just calculate how much load the devices use and turn some things off before turning others on. (It's not a big deal to turn the air conditioner to FAN before using the microwave or hair dryer, neither of which will be in use for more than a few minutes.)

I'm not sure this is a design deficiency on Airstream's part; it's just a matter of practicality. Airstream has no control over the amperage provided by campgrounds.

It appears that some of your problems could be addressed by switching some appliances to propane. Is there a reason you don't wish to use propane for the water heater and refrigerator?

With the exception of cold weather camping in sub-freezing weather, a 30-pound propane tank lasts us over a year in normal use (approximately 4-6 weeks use per year). That would reduce your current draw by 14.7 amps; plus, you could temporarily switch the air conditioner to FAN when using other high current devices.

Just another opinion and comment...

Note: It's not surprising that this problem also occurs when connected to 50 amp service. I don't think your Airstream is rated for more than 30 amps; so the circuit breakers are just protecting from overload, as designed.
__________________
Phoenix is offline  
Old 07-03-2012, 01:57 PM   #52
2 Rivet Member
 
Mifair's Avatar
 
2011 27 FB International
Keswick , Ontario
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 64
Are we saying we have to manually watch the current draw otherwise its not the breaker that will necessarily trip but that the ATS could fry.
How enlightening, if this is true.
__________________
Mifair is offline  
Old 07-03-2012, 02:23 PM   #53
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Nowhere , Somewhere
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,417
Blog Entries: 2
That many amps would probably over load almost any rv. 30 amp service means 30 amp service, anything over is pushing it. Also campground amperage can vary from minute to minute, especially during high air use. Whst happens when two 50 amp MHS come in and use their four ac units and a clothes dryer. Good chance your amperage will drop. Just bad luck. Jim
__________________
avionstream is offline  
Old 07-03-2012, 02:24 PM   #54
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Nowhere , Somewhere
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,417
Blog Entries: 2
Also the operating load is 30 amp more than likely. 47 amps. Jim
__________________
avionstream is offline  
Old 07-03-2012, 02:29 PM   #55
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,716
Yes it has always been necessary to think about power use when camping with any camper or power source. New factor in the thinking for Airstream is the electric/propane water heater combination now standard which draws 12 amps.

When the A/C is used it may be best to switch it to propane water heat "manually". Any plug-in appliance that provides heat will draw relatively high amperage. If campground voltage is low, everything draws higher amperage, and this is more likely in hot weather with lots of A/C usage.

It's not clear yet whether the new transfer switch is faulty or the first in line to fail when the circuit is overloaded, it comes in front of trailer circuit breaker protection. We used ours for six months steady now with electric water heat and transfer switch in line, but no A/C, with no problems. We did use an electric space heater, primarily at night. I do monitor campground voltage, when first plugging in and occasionally after that.

doug k
__________________
dkottum is offline  
Old 07-03-2012, 02:42 PM   #56
2 Rivet Member
 
Mifair's Avatar
 
2011 27 FB International
Keswick , Ontario
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 64
This is another reason to have a surge guard to also cutoff power in low voltage conditions.
__________________

__________________
Mifair is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.