Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-02-2012, 01:52 AM   #29
2 Rivet Member
 
donabston's Avatar
 
2012 25' FB International
Baton Rouge , Louisiana
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Oh, and I labeled the wires in the ATS 1 through 6 to help put it back together for the service department to verify the problem.

Don
__________________

__________________
donabston is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 02:49 AM   #30
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
lewster's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples, FL , Hood River, OR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by donabston View Post
My 2012 International 25' FB has two points of entry for shore power. One on the normal curb side of the trailer, and the other on the front, driver's side of the trailer. Just behind the propane bottles. The "inlets" are identical and will accept power from either generators or shore power. I was told that the front "inlet" was placed there as a convenience for generators in pickup beds.

The Auto Transfer Switch (ATS) is a safety item to keep you from introducing two separate power sources to the trailer systems. Great idea if it works properly. The ATS is inside a metal box that is located on the back of the converter (under bed in my case). To pull out the converter you have to remove the four front screws, and in my case, raise the bed and remove the wood cover over the converter. The cables are bulky and have to be manuevered. All power OFF, of course. When the converter is pulled out the ATS cover can be removed with one screw then pull up. The actual switch is the circuit board with the clear plastic-covered relay. Where this relay contacts the circuit board is the problem. With power on the blade contacts to the board arc, indicating poor soldering or design.

This area is where you do your bypassing of the ATS, and basically convert your
trailer to one inlet. If you work backward from the black and white leads to the main breaker you will see how to do it. My side "inlet" orange cable was labeled "M".

I am going to start working this problem with Airstream on Monday. The biggest hassle will be getting me and the part together somewhere in the lower 48. I do think a simple manual selector switch would have been a better option considering the movement the converter experiences. I'll keep everybody informed of my progress. Don't worry the bypass works great, but of course for this much money I want it to work as designed. Several minor items in my trailer to be corrected also.

Don
Thanks Don,

That's what I thought, but wanted to be sure about the connections. When an ATS (automatic transfer switch) fails in a motor home, I have to do the by-pass and wire the shore cord input to the ATS directly to the breakers via the ATS output cord while disabling the generator, as some large MoHos have automatic generator start functions that would cause an open end line to energize. This is tricky in 50 amp units and requires aluminum splice blocks and lots of insulation (you just can't wire nut a 50 amp cord together).

I can see the convenience of having the second plug at the front of the trailer for your truck mounted genny, but I would bet that inferior, Chinese ATS components are to blame in this situation. I have a recommendation for you (and the others having similar problems), but you will NOT get Airstream to pay for it (mine is US made), since you are still under warranty and they will offer you the same stuff that you have now (I would use stronger words here, but this is a family channel!)

Since I stand behind every service call that I perform, I choose the best components from the market place. Most of my work is usually past the original warranty period, so the owner or their third party extended warranty company are footing the bill. They don't want recurring problems either, so I generally get them the good stuff....AND IT WORKS!

Let me know if you need the information.

Thanks! and good luck with the Airstream fix.
__________________

__________________
Lew Farber...ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician...RVIA Certified Master Tech ...AM Solar Authorized Installation Center...AIRSTREAM Solar & Electrical Specialist...Micro Air 'Easy Start' Sales and Installations
lewster is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 05:31 AM   #31
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Thumbs down Nice try Airstream....

I guess we must be very careful what we ask for.....

Airstream took a good idea and botched it with another poor quality product and or install. Very sad really, this is definitely not a small concern, 'lectricty is something most, including me are very wary of.......can be 'kinda dangerous too.

Do I ass-u-me correctly the the new models do NOT have the coiled permanent power cord.

Bob
__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 06:01 AM   #32
Rivet Master
 
richinny's Avatar
 
2011 34' Classic
Westchester Cty.NY , / Miami FL
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
I guess we must be very careful what we ask for.....

Do I ass-u-me correctly the the new models do NOT have the coiled permanent power cord.

Bob
you are correct.
__________________
Ricky
2012 F150 Super Crew 5-1/2' bed Ecoboost 4x4 3.73 elec. lock diff. Propride hitch
give life. kidney & pancreas transplant 9/9/06
Ingrid-my unofficial '"World's Oldest Streamer" 1909-2008 R.I.P.
richinny is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 08:51 AM   #33
3 Rivet Member
 
jkcru's Avatar
 
2010 28' Flying Cloud
Escondido , California
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 195
I had the same problem in my 2010 flying Cloud and after replacing one X-fer switch ( which is stand alone) attached to the inverter I discovered the front plug was poorly wired and the connections were loose. Not an easy fix as the wires were barly long enough to acess. I discovered the problem by checking both inlets (AC) front failed, side ok.
__________________
jkcru is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 09:55 AM   #34
4 Rivet Member
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Eureka , California
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 321
Lewster--

So it sounds here like you ALREADY know of a superior part that can be installed in place of the AS part. THAT is exactly and precisely the kind of information I want to assemble and document in the Airstream Up-engineering Group.

Taking a proactive approach and replacing these BEFORE they fail on your vacation when you least want it to fail, is a sensible step that many people are going to want to take.

I also think it would make sense to devise a proper manual switch solution. Power relays are really only needed here for convenience. Even the best relay has high failure rates compared to manual switches. If someone offered me a choice, I'd go for the manual switch every time. I do NOT want to load my trailer up with failure prone devices just for such really minor convenience.
__________________
redwoodguy is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 10:06 AM   #35
2 Rivet Member
 
Mifair's Avatar
 
2011 27 FB International
Keswick , Ontario
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 64
Does anyone know if the ATS is the same device used in model years 2010, 2011, 2012. The problems seem to be described around the 2012 model year. I wonder if anyone from Airstream monitors the forums.
__________________
Mifair is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 11:04 AM   #36
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
lewster's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples, FL , Hood River, OR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by redwoodguy View Post
Lewster--

So it sounds here like you ALREADY know of a superior part that can be installed in place of the AS part. THAT is exactly and precisely the kind of information I want to assemble and document in the Airstream Up-engineering Group.

Taking a proactive approach and replacing these BEFORE they fail on your vacation when you least want it to fail, is a sensible step that many people are going to want to take.

I also think it would make sense to devise a proper manual switch solution. Power relays are really only needed here for convenience. Even the best relay has high failure rates compared to manual switches. If someone offered me a choice, I'd go for the manual switch every time. I do NOT want to load my trailer up with failure prone devices just for such really minor convenience.
IMHO, for an RV like an Airstream, the simplest (is that a word?....it is now!) way to set up a dual input shore/generator option is to have one inlet only.....WHAT'S THIS? you say...........

Eliminate the front inlet plug and the ATS and BUY A LONGER POWER CORD FOR YOUR GENERATOR. If you want generator power, simply unplug the shore cord from the power post and plug it into your generator using a proper extension if required for length. nothing could be simpler!

If you must use the existing design, there is a quality US made transfer switch available that has very good reliability. PM me if you need the info.

Also, if you have an inverter that has an internal transfer switch, that is another topic, as the job of that transfer switch is to change between incoming shore power (when present) to power your inverter circuits and then to the battery-powered inverter when no shore power is present so these same inverter circuits can be used with no shore power available. Kind of like apples and oranges.......well sort of anyway......maybe apples and kumquats
__________________
Lew Farber...ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician...RVIA Certified Master Tech ...AM Solar Authorized Installation Center...AIRSTREAM Solar & Electrical Specialist...Micro Air 'Easy Start' Sales and Installations
lewster is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 11:05 AM   #37
4 Rivet Member
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Eureka , California
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mifair View Post
Does anyone know if the ATS is the same device used in model years 2010, 2011, 2012. The problems seem to be described around the 2012 model year. I wonder if anyone from Airstream monitors the forums.
Look at the post that is 2 above yours. His unit is a 2010.
__________________
redwoodguy is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 03:57 PM   #38
3 Rivet Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 104
Images: 3
Don,

We just got back trip cut by 4 days. Oh well Fourth with the kids now.

Thank you for the detailed description. I am not content with just having the factory putting the same thing back in, NO WAY. Please let us know what you work out with Airstream? In the meantime Lew do you have a suggestion for an upgrade? I do not see the need for an automatic transfer switch without an onboard generator. If you plug it in and no power you know you need to switch it, right? I know from other comments the converter needs to be upgraded/replaced which I was planning on doing when the new Solar goes in but I guess I will just do it now. I believe the IOTA DLS-55/IQ4 has been suggested? This trailer was a dream for 20+ years that if needed I will re-engineer it from one end to the other. What other choice do I really have? This is the second time in three trips that we have had a major problem with our brand new unit. I won’t mention all the other short comings. All my wife keeps asking is why did we sell our old Trailbay by R Vision. It is really getting old! We have been planning a west coast trip for our 25 anniversary and she is telling me no way now.

Done:

Redesigned front dinette area so the table drops down without having to remove all the cushions to do so.

New custom Verlo twin mattresses and wider support decking.

Aluminum LPG tanks with gauges and electric senders (can monitor both tanks with the I Series monitor).

Separate antifreeze holding tank and changeover valve. We live in CO and are constantly needing to winterize.

To do:

New transfer switch upgrade or manual switch design.

IOTA DLX-55/IQ4 converter.

Solar to be installed local by RVSolarStore.com

Leaning toward the full size Atwood 15k BTU RV A/C with heat pump. Current one does not cool above 80-85 outside and sounds like a jet engine taking off.

I Series Tank Monitoring. Factory system never worked from day one.

Atwood tankless hot water as soon as I hear it is working well in the field.

A/V replacement. The factory setup is pitiful.

New wheels and real tires. Already lost one of the Marathons at less than 5k.

A host of little things.
__________________
mtntime is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 05:10 PM   #39
4 Rivet Member
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Eureka , California
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Collimare View Post
Don,

This trailer was a dream for 20+ years that if needed I will re-engineer it from one end to the other.

A host of little things.
This new thread may be of interest to you Collimare: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f44/...ler-93188.html
__________________
redwoodguy is offline  
Old 07-03-2012, 01:33 AM   #40
2 Rivet Member
 
donabston's Avatar
 
2012 25' FB International
Baton Rouge , Louisiana
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 33
Monday update: Put a call in to the Airstream customer service phone recorder this morning per the info on their website. Also came across a dealer technician who is helping out his sales guys. He was very well aware of the ATS problem and has replaced some himself. At about 4
__________________
donabston is offline  
Old 07-03-2012, 01:47 AM   #41
2 Rivet Member
 
donabston's Avatar
 
2012 25' FB International
Baton Rouge , Louisiana
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 33
oops...at 4:30 pm I received a call from Randy @ Airstream. He was very pleasant and eager to help. First he is checking into a deadbolt I need for the planned dealer visit this Friday. While there they will evaluate and write up the ATS. Once I have an "official" diagnosis I will be able to have the replacement converter/ATS sent to a rendezvous with me later in the month. Getting the part is 90% of the battle; installation only takes about 3-4 hours.

One fellow airstreamer today suggested a marine store for a manual switch; he said the heavy-duty selector switches are common on boats. I may have to look into this someday since that ATS is right below my butt when sleeping (if it can fail "all off", can it fail "all on" ?). You know, now that I think about it this trailer does look like a big toaster.

Will update....Don
__________________
donabston is offline  
Old 07-03-2012, 04:52 AM   #42
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
I guess we must be very careful what we ask for.....

Airstream took a good idea and botched it with another poor quality product and or install. Very sad really, this is definitely not a small concern, 'lectricty is something most, including me are very wary of.......can be 'kinda dangerous too.

Do I ass-u-me correctly the the new models do NOT have the coiled permanent power cord.

Bob
Quote:
Originally Posted by donabston View Post
oops...at 4:30 pm I received a call from Randy @ Airstream. He was very pleasant and eager to help. First he is checking into a deadbolt I need for the planned dealer visit this Friday. While there they will evaluate and write up the ATS. Once I have an "official" diagnosis I will be able to have the replacement converter/ATS sent to a rendezvous with me later in the month. Getting the part is 90% of the battle; installation only takes about 3-4 hours.

One fellow airstreamer today suggested a marine store for a manual switch; he said the heavy-duty selector switches are common on boats. I may have to look into this someday since that ATS is right below my butt when sleeping (if it can fail "all off", can it fail "all on" ?). You know, now that I think about it this trailer does look like a big toaster.

Will update....Don
This last post got me thinking about my previous....

Don't these ATS switch's have to be UL certified for home, marine or rv use?

'Kinda leans me more towards the install angle, sump'n ain't rite.

Bob
__________________

__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.