New Replacement Batteries

[charlie g]

I am replacing my 2 battereis. They are 3+ yrs old and don't seem to charge fully anymore. I have looked at the "Optima" and the "DieHard" batteries. I am leanning more toward the "DieHard", it has the most CC. Any thoughts?
charlie g

[Andy K]

I would suggest the Optima batteries. I have 2 in my truck and 2 in the Airstream.
They cost more but last much longer. Mine are 6 years old and goin strong.

[87MH]

Originally Posted by charlie g

I am replacing my 2 battereis. I have looked at the "Optima" and the "DieHard" batteries.... Any thoughts?

Follow this link:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...ery-40049.html

There have been many discussions here on the forums - I have a Lifeline in the '78 and am VERY happy with it - I know that the Airstream Factory was installing the Lifeline Group 27 in some of the high end MotorHomes a few years back.

The above mentioned thread contains several links to other discussions.

Batteries are pretty much a "You get what you pay for" purchase.

If you can delay your purchase for a couple of weeks the http://www.airforums.com/forums/f289...lly-39948.html
is coming up soon in San Antonio - even if you could only make it for the open house on Saturday, February 7 you could ask questions in person of people who have renovated multiple systems.

The Vintage Rally is an excellent opportunity to network to people or groups who could help you in person with your future AS questions.

[bryanl]

Your biggest problem will be in trying to understand the hype with actual measure.

The best advice I have seen is to buy your batteries from a retailer you trust and who sells a lot to folks like you and will stand behind what he sells.

Keep in mind that the biggest problem with batteries is the use and maintenance - not the brand or type. The differences that everyone seems to like to argue about are minor compared to the impact of how you take care of what you have.

[cameront120]

I have had nothing but great success with Die Hards in my cars, so I'm going to give one a try in my trailer.

[Lumatic]

Charlie,
I assume you are getting deep cycle batteries.
Marshall

[Mike Leary]

AC Delco "Voyager" deep cycles are the best we've ever used.

[charlie g]

Thanks all for your in-put. I think for my purpos, a Travel Trailer, and the ocasional Boon docking, I am going to get the DieHard Batterys. They seem to have the better size, power, service avalability and price. The DiHard PM-2 with 68 AH rating, 2 for $555., and 3 yr replacement warrenty, installed ain't bad.
Thanks again,
charlie g

[Gene]

$555! Have I been on another planet? I haven't replaced a car battery in a long, long time—I can't remember when, but those last forever (they didn't used to a generation ago). I've never replaced a trailer battery since we've only owned the Safari for a bit more than a year. I thought maybe my batteries weren't too good, but have checked the cells under all sorts of conditions and they're fine. I was kind of hoping they're were going bad so I could get better ones than the cheap ones Airstream installs, but I'm starting to look at this differently.

After reading a bunch of threads, I see a tremendous difference in price between different batteries. It seems the cost/benefit for the most expensive batteries is not very good and there are reasonable arguments for going every sort of way. My present route is to replace bulbs, halogen and incandescent, with LED's. The cheap fixtures in parts of our trailer have incandescent bulbs—they have to go. The fancy ceiling fixtures that are too bright can have the halogens replaced with LED's and in total will be little more than one incandescent bulb in power usage and less blinding. Then we can actually use them.

The worst time for boondocking is the Fall—lights on longer, more furnace, less solar gain (natural and solar panels). That's when the batteries have lasted the shortest time and led me to think the batteries were failing early. One thing I can change now is the bulbs and I'm in the process of doing that. Maybe I can find a wind-up fan for the furnace—that would make a big difference (do not take this sentence seriously). I put a switch into the hot wire on the subwoofer—now I can turn it off and that's one less item drawing some current. My point is, use less power and spend less on batteries. It also helps to not park under trees when you have solar panels.

One thing I learned lately was that my trailer didn't come with a 3-stage charger. I was under the impression all modern converters came that way, but no, Airstream decided to save a few bucks and equip newer ones with chargers designed to overcharge the batteries. If you have a newer trailer, check the model # on your converter and then go to the converter company website and see which type you have. I have a dealer installed solar panel and that does have a 3-stage charger. So long as it's not covered by a lot of snow, it does trickle charge the batteries. If we get a lot of snow and the batteries do run down too much, I can plug it in for several hours to bring them up to a respectable charge. From what I understand, the batteries can be fully charged in less than half a day by plugging to shore power and any more than that wears them down faster.

Like everything else on the Forum, batteries do manage to generate a lot of heat sometimes (pun intended) and sorting this out is another intellectual challenge.

Gene

[Mikethefixit]

WHOW $555//// I put in two new Group 27's DP DL 1000 CCA Marine batteries from AUTO ZONE, I know they were not 1/3 of that price and I am confident they will last at least 5 yrs with proper maintaince. The thing is proper maintainence. I check fluid levels once a month and check battery condition weekly. MY batterys are in the basement on a trickle. DO U KNOW WHERE YOUR BATTRIES ARE????

[bibbs]

I got the biggest most expensive batteries that Walmart had. Cost about 100.00 each. I can go about 3 days in the fall on just one. I am happy with that.

Bibbs

[Mexray]

Let me toss some more stuff up against the wall to see if any of it will stick...

I've been in the retail/wholesale battery biz for many, many years...so, here goes some info I hope will be helpful with your choice:

1. You of course need DEEP CYCLE batteries for use in RV's for the accessories...duh! we all know that, right?

2. Ignor, for the most part, the CCA (cold cranking amps @ 0 degrees f.), the CA (cranking amps @ 32 degrees f.), MCA (marine cranking amps - same as CA), etc., etc...we should be interested in the AMP HOUR rating, not the CRANKING rating...

3. The higher the AMP HOUR rating of your deep cycle batteries, the more available 'power' you'll have to run all your accessories while boondocking.

4. I don't recommend the Optima batteries for RV use, as the 10 inch size only has a 55 AMP HOUR rating, much lower than regular Group 24's of the same size...that's due to their circular plate construction.

5. Sealed, AGM batteries are great for RV use, virtually maintenance free, etc., but are more costly than FLOODED CELL types...if you can swing the cost, they are probably the best overall choice...

6. Get the HEAVIEST version of the deep cycle battery that will fit in your application, as a greater weight most often means more plates, and AMP HOURS...

[Gene]

Mexray and any other experts,

There was a mention on another thread about "code" on batteries and I believe it referred to how big a battery in a confined space—my box has about an inch on all sides. It's on the tongue. Other boxes may be in a space in side of the trailer. Does this "code" refer to all boxes, or some? What is it protecting us from? And what does it say?

I am curious how big a set of batteries can fit in the box that comes with my trailer, of course and have little desire to have to change the box, something that seems very difficult.

Gene

[Mexray]

Gene,

I guess your question is not clear to me... many batteries have a Mfg's 'code' stamped into them, to show mfg date and sometimes plate count, etc...but these codes are different for each Mfg, and they don't usually list their codes to anyone but their own dealers, etc.

As to what will fit in your battery box, can't help you much there...don't know the size of the box you have...I believe many later AS's have space for two Group-27 (12 inches long) batteries, either in two separate boxes, or together in one, side-by-side - I'm not a expert on all of AS's various battery configurations...

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Mexray

Gene,

I guess your question is not clear to me

Thanks Mexray. The question made a lot more sense to me when I wrote it than it does today when I read it again.

There was a post on this thread that seemed to say there is some limit based on a "code", a regulation, industry standard or whatever, to how much of the space in the battery box can be used, perhaps requiring how much space there must between the walls and the batteries, or how much clearance at the top. It could have something to do with preventing electrical shorts or dispersing fumes. It may only apply to batteries in a sealed compartment in the trailer rather than in a box on the tongue. If there is a "code", what's the reason? That's what I wanted to know.

Perhaps my 2nd question wasn't phrased well either. My understanding is there are 3 or 4 "series" designations for deep cycle batteries. It starts with the least—24, then comes 27, then I'm unsure. I would think the least capacity, the smaller the battery, but maybe not. I would think the boxes on newer Airstreams would be the same size because it's cheaper to make them that way. But maybe not.

So I'll try to ask better questions:

What do Series 24, Series 27, etc., each mean in terms of ampere hours? Do the numbers mean something else?

Are there standard sizes for each series? I doubt it, but why not ask? Are some brands more compact than others? Is there some way to know how much bigger each level (24, 27, etc.) would be? Does size difference in batteries come in width, depth and/or height?

Has anyone with a 2008 Safari 25' FB SE put in better batteries and, of course, did they fit?

Does anyone know whether battery boxes are the same in recent years, and have any info about what batteries fit besides orginal equipment?

Are sealed batteries or AGM's or whatever variety not originally installed, the same size or different than flooded cell batteries of the same series? On this or another thread, Lewster posted that he had to raise the sides of the box and reattach the lid to fit in 6 v. golf cart batteries. Is that generally true of golf cart batteries?

I know this is a lot to ask. I think when we discuss batteries some of possible solutions are impossible given the size of the box unless you want to change the size of the box. I'm not sure I want to go that route unless I am sure the benefit is substantial weighed against the cost of rebuilding the box. I am also concerned about whether there is a safety question related to getting a bigger battery into the existing box.

Another thought is that there are different series and different versions of batteries. Without going through all the permutations of this, there are many questions that can be asked from that fact. For example, does a Series 24 AGM have better ampere hour capacity than a flooded cell Series 24? I was never much good in school at permutations, but there seem to be between 10 and 20 of them, maybe more. So, I think there need to be comparisons based on type of battery and series to have better answers.

On this thread and others, people have their favorite brands (just like tow vehicles), but have there been objective ratings by some magazine or other group? If so, how do we find it?

I am not too concerned with whether I have to put water in a battery or not, but I am concerned with capacity, life time, how well they deal with abuse (some is just going to happen while boondocking and by abuse I meant discharge below 50%). Those are my standards, but other have other concerns.

The result of all this and the many different concerns people have, is one hell of a lot of confusion.

Back to you experts, and thanks for your attempts to educate us (it so much easier to ask questions than answer them).

Gene

[bryanl]

See the page on BCI group size for what the 24, 27 etc mean - essentially these numbers identify only a size and, perhaps, terminal location and type.

There are only a few battery manufacturers and it is a mature industry. That means that brand doesn't count for much. Batteries trade off capacity, longevity, and cost and you choose which 2 of the three you want. If you look at a line card, you'll see this. A good retailer will often have one or two in the line available. See the Trojan T105 vs t145 or the SCS200 vs SCS220 for example.

The result of all this and the many different concerns people have, is one hell of a lot of confusion.

Part of this is because there are so many points of view that are not well founded. Even the sources with a good reputation will often offer platitudes that they contradict in their own data or explanations.There are other factors as well such as the wide variances in typical use profiles and inherent variability in batteries themselves.

As for your use, if you plan on regularly running your batteries flat, don't expect any good lifetime from them no matter what batteries you get. Instead, find a way to add more capacity to your bank or a way to charge them more often.

There is no magic bullet.

[SteveSueMac]

This is an old thread but I didn't want to start a new one on batteries as there are a few hundred threads on batteries already.

I was toying with the idea of upgrading the Paralax to a Progressive Dynamics, 6v golf cart batteries, Solar panels, etc. - but until we retire, we're really only weekend warriors without a ton of boondocking planned.


So until then - I'm thinking we'll keep stuff "as is" and not go crazy on updates we can't maximize.

To that end, I DO need to replace my group 24 Interstates and am assuming if my local RV/Marine dealer sells an "off brand" (non-Intestate) group 24 deep cycle marine battery, that's probably good enough for the purpose described.

Can anyone confirm/disconfirm that assumption? Both local dealers tell me they stopped selling Interstates because they're too expensive.

Thanks!

[DKB_SATX]

I've had good luck (in my low-tech Argosy with LED lights) with O'Reilly's group 24. That was what was in the trailer when I bought it, and that battery (now more than 5 years old) is in my project trailer as a placeholder, I put the newer one on the 24' trailer I travel with. Of course, a week after I bought it I realized that Costco sells one at an even better price ($85ish if I recall correctly) and that nice Costco service level is included with that one. I boondock a fair amount, I can go 2 nights with furnace use, 4 nights without if I stretch it. This is with a single Group24, but no 12v needed for my fridge or water heater so I'm just running lights, water pump and fan.

[Rich W]

My Ranger bass boat came with Deka deep cycle trolling motor batteries and I've always had very good service out of them, always replaced with Deka. You can order them from Lowes hardware. They will ship free to the store.

You can read up on the company, still privately owned.
East Penn Manufacturing – The world's largest single site, family-owned lead-acid battery manufacturer
East Penn Manufacturing.
A private, family-owned company operating
the largest single-site, lead-acid battery
manufacturing facility in the world.

[lewster]

Be careful when buying a 'marine deep cycle' battery. These are essentially hybrids and are not true deep cycle units, as they are called on to perform double duty as a marine engine starter AND a deep cycle for lights, nav. equipment, etc.

Look for a true DEEP CYCLE battery for RV use.