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01-09-2009, 02:32 PM
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#1
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2 Rivet Member
2001 31' Excella
Bluffton
, South Carolina
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 62
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New battery watering systems?
I have to replace a set of group 27 batteries, but I am looking into adding a watering system, like the Qwik Fill, to service the batteries. It's a little expensive ($60), but it will allow me to water the batteries through out the year without having to un-connect and remove, water and re-install each time. But then, I'm upgrading the charging system to a 3-stage to stop boiling the batteries dry too!
The fill system is hand pumped from a water source, into the battery cap that has a float stop that only allows it to fill to the top of the fill line. It runs in parallel, so each cell get the water until it's full. The fill lines could be routed into my battery boxes from inside, so I could add water at any point while I'm in the AS.
Has anyone had experience with this system?
__________________
Fred Bartlett
30' S/O 01 Excella, maple floors in Galley, HA Hitch, Hyd. Disc Brakes, P3 Controller, SS Kit. Bk Splash, LED RL's, 2K/Tri Fuel Gen's & RV on TT
04 Chevy HD, CC, D/A, Curt Magnum V Rec., Full Amsoil Syn.,Dual Filters, ARE, MX Topper with lift Gate Door, Bed Rug, TPS & Bk.up Camera.
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01-09-2009, 04:59 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1957 22' Caravanner
Port Hadlock
, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 864
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No experience with it on a trailer, but I've got it on our sailboat. I run 4 golf cart batteries and access is tough. I've had the quick fill for 6 months or so and really like it. I have the one fill line running up to a locker where I can drop it in my water container and pump it. Works just fine.
cheers,
steve
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01-09-2009, 11:47 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,369
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Not needed?
Hi, I think you sort-of answered your own question. If your batteries need water that much, or that often, then they are cooked, overcharged, or bad.
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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01-10-2009, 06:00 AM
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#4
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Site Team
2002 25' Safari
Dewey
, Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 15,615
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It sounds like an interesting solution to the problem of watering the batteries. I would be concerned that any of the floats could fail and either flood or dry a cell. A simpler, but more costly solution would be to replace the batteries with AGMs. That would eliminate the need to ever add water.
__________________
Richard
Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
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01-10-2009, 06:31 AM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2009 27' FB Flying Cloud
1982 31' International
1991 35' Airstream 350
Jay
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azflycaster
It sounds like an interesting solution to the problem of watering the batteries. I would be concerned that any of the floats could fail and either flood or dry a cell. A simpler, but more costly solution would be to replace the batteries with AGMs. That would eliminate the need to ever add water.
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I agree with the AGM solution. I spent the money and love them. They last longer, and no water to add.
__________________
Jeff & Cindy
'09 27FB Flying Cloud;'82 31 International
'91 350 LE MH; '21 Interstate 24GT
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01-10-2009, 06:37 AM
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#6
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Rivet Master
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbearsailor
No experience with it on a trailer, but I've got it on our sailboat. I run 4 golf cart batteries and access is tough.
cheers,
steve
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Steve,
I'm curious.
Where and how do you mount batteries on a sailboat? Are they on gimbals to prevent spillage?
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01-10-2009, 08:24 AM
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#7
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2 Rivet Member
2001 31' Excella
Bluffton
, South Carolina
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 62
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Thanks for the input, but the AGM solution is good but expensive. The flooded cell are cheap but require lots of maintenance and watering is one I can solve,plus the 3 stage charger to keep them charged up. I'll let you know if I can get the 5-7 years out of this new set of batteries. I think I'll also use a battery monitor and a battery circuit switch to isolate the batteries in storage. Is this good money chasing a bad battery?????????
I think the watering system is best for coaches that use large, multi batteries that have poor access, like sailboats. I think this product started in the marine industry and has overlapped into other markets. I saw them used for many years in watering large electric batteries hi-lows in manufacturing.
I have several months to think this one out before the AS is unthawed in the spring.
__________________
Fred Bartlett
30' S/O 01 Excella, maple floors in Galley, HA Hitch, Hyd. Disc Brakes, P3 Controller, SS Kit. Bk Splash, LED RL's, 2K/Tri Fuel Gen's & RV on TT
04 Chevy HD, CC, D/A, Curt Magnum V Rec., Full Amsoil Syn.,Dual Filters, ARE, MX Topper with lift Gate Door, Bed Rug, TPS & Bk.up Camera.
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01-10-2009, 08:51 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2011 34' Classic
Westchester Cty.NY
, / Miami FL
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,122
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is it ok for the vent/fillers to vent into the trailer?
__________________
Ricky
2012 F150 Super Crew 5-1/2' bed Ecoboost 4x4 3.73 elec. lock diff. Propride hitch
give life. kidney & pancreas transplant 9/9/06
Ingrid-my unofficial '"World's Oldest Streamer" 1909-2008 R.I.P.
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01-10-2009, 09:51 AM
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#9
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Rivet Master
1957 22' Caravanner
Port Hadlock
, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane
Steve,
I'm curious.
Where and how do you mount batteries on a sailboat? Are they on gimbals to prevent spillage?
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Hi Mark,
No they're not gimballed. Normal heel isn't enough to cause spillage issues. Main concern is just strength of the battery box to keep them from moving. Ours are mounted in one big box, aft of the engine, just under the cockpit. That fill system really works well for me. The batteries don't use a lot of water, but they do use water. When they're hard to get to, I just don't check them as often as I should.
cheers,
steve
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01-10-2009, 12:08 PM
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#10
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2 Rivet Member
2001 31' Excella
Bluffton
, South Carolina
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 62
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Ricky, I don't think they vent through the fill tube, but it's a good question to ask the manufacture about, as he's right here in Michigan.
__________________
Fred Bartlett
30' S/O 01 Excella, maple floors in Galley, HA Hitch, Hyd. Disc Brakes, P3 Controller, SS Kit. Bk Splash, LED RL's, 2K/Tri Fuel Gen's & RV on TT
04 Chevy HD, CC, D/A, Curt Magnum V Rec., Full Amsoil Syn.,Dual Filters, ARE, MX Topper with lift Gate Door, Bed Rug, TPS & Bk.up Camera.
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01-10-2009, 12:20 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richinny
is it ok for the vent/fillers to vent into the trailer?
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I think the hydrogen explosion issue is waaay overstated. In normal use, you don't produce that much. The problem comes when you have a dead battery and you've hooked up another vehicle--the charging rate is very high in the first minute or so and the area under the hood is confined, plus you get a spark right at the point where you remove the jump cable. So if you've hooked up right to the battery terminal, the spark is in just the right place.
These three conditions just don't usually happen in an RV. There's almost zero explosion danger inside an RV in normal charge/discharge operations and there is no physiological danger from the gas.
You really have to work hard to blow the top off an battery, yet people seem to do it several times a year. Murphy is very proud...
Zep
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11-18-2010, 09:39 AM
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#12
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2 Rivet Member
2001 31' Excella
Bluffton
, South Carolina
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 62
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No water needed for batteries after two years of use!
I replaced the battery burner in my AS after the first set of batteries went bad, with the new 4 stage converter, I haven't needed to add any water to the new set of batteries in two years. A big change after having to water the batteries three to four times a year with the old converter. So, I'm no longer looking into watering systems now that I have a good charging system in the AS. And I'm hopping that the new batteries will last a few more years too.
For storage, I use a good trickle charger to keep them alive without charging. This may be the best of battery maintenance!??
__________________
Fred Bartlett
30' S/O 01 Excella, maple floors in Galley, HA Hitch, Hyd. Disc Brakes, P3 Controller, SS Kit. Bk Splash, LED RL's, 2K/Tri Fuel Gen's & RV on TT
04 Chevy HD, CC, D/A, Curt Magnum V Rec., Full Amsoil Syn.,Dual Filters, ARE, MX Topper with lift Gate Door, Bed Rug, TPS & Bk.up Camera.
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11-18-2010, 11:48 AM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1976 25' Tradewind
.
, Maine to Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 621
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Whoa, Nelly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
I think the hydrogen explosion issue is waaay overstated. In normal use, you don't produce that much. The problem comes when you have a dead battery and you've hooked up another vehicle--the charging rate is very high in the first minute or so and the area under the hood is confined, plus you get a spark right at the point where you remove the jump cable. So if you've hooked up right to the battery terminal, the spark is in just the right place.
These three conditions just don't usually happen in an RV. There's almost zero explosion danger inside an RV in normal charge/discharge operations and there is no physiological danger from the gas.
You really have to work hard to blow the top off an battery, yet people seem to do it several times a year. Murphy is very proud...
Zep
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Zep,
I grew up with a guy who lost his vision because a battery blew up in his face.
He was legally blind though he could see a little, could not drive though.
Never got into the particulars about how stupid he was, just know there is some danger.
R
__________________
"Talk is cheap, Airstreams are expensive," Wally Byam.
25' Tradewind
'18 Promaster 1500 High Roof
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11-18-2010, 01:26 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
2016 28' Pendleton
Currently Looking...
Scottsdale
, Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 840
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Hi from Ga. . . can't find info on these automatic watering deals. I have 4 batteries and manually watching water levels is gonna get tedious. OK,OK, I know, I'm not the smartest guy here, but maybe someone could point me in the right direction ? ? please ?, thanks and regards, Craig
__________________
WBCCI 2851,4CU
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11-18-2010, 03:09 PM
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#15
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4 Rivet Member
2002 31' Classic
Houston
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
I think the hydrogen explosion issue is waaay overstated. In normal use, you don't produce that much. The problem comes when you have a dead battery and you've hooked up another vehicle--the charging rate is very high in the first minute or so and the area under the hood is confined, plus you get a spark right at the point where you remove the jump cable. So if you've hooked up right to the battery terminal, the spark is in just the right place.
These three conditions just don't usually happen in an RV. There's almost zero explosion danger inside an RV in normal charge/discharge operations and there is no physiological danger from the gas.
You really have to work hard to blow the top off an battery, yet people seem to do it several times a year. Murphy is very proud...
Zep
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My neighbor attempted to start his Buick several years ago while I was outside. I heard what sounded like an M-80 going off and walked over to him as he exited the Buick. There were vapors coming out from under his hood. We lifted his hood and found the top of the battery blown off and acid all over the engine compartment. He had not been working on the car or charging the car; he had just gotten into it to run an errand. So it can happen without apparant cause at any time.
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11-18-2010, 06:11 PM
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#16
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Rivet Master
1957 22' Caravanner
Port Hadlock
, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamblinManGa
Hi from Ga. . . can't find info on these automatic watering deals. I have 4 batteries and manually watching water levels is gonna get tedious. OK,OK, I know, I'm not the smartest guy here, but maybe someone could point me in the right direction ? ? please ?, thanks and regards, Craig
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Flow-rite RV Battery filling systems, Quick Fill, Qwikfill, profill, pro-fill, battery water level Camping World - Flow-rite RV Battery filling systems, Quick Fill, Qwikfill, profill, pro-fill, battery water level - Product - Camping World
-steve
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11-18-2010, 10:06 PM
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#17
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2 Rivet Member
2016 25' Flying Cloud
2010 20' Flying Cloud
Los Gatos
, California
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 70
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I agree with Fred's last post in this thread. Once you have installed a smart charger, your batteries won't be using much water. The batteries use up their water when continually charged above 13.4 volts. The smart chargers provide a "float" charge around 13.2 to 13.6 volts
TerryC
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11-18-2010, 11:51 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
1978 28' Ambassador
Morada
, California
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,584
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Most major automotive Battery Mfg's these days have converted to Calcium alloy lead battery plates (as opposed to traditional antimony alloy plates)in most all their products that we typically see on suppliers shelves...
The Calcium alloy was first mass produced in Delco's line of 'maintenance free', side post batteries for GMC vehicles, many years ago...now just about everyone uses this type plate alloy, but using cast plates, not expanded metal plates as Delco uses...
The Calcium alloy lead plate begins to 'gas' at a higher charging voltage, allowing for a great reduction in water vapor loss, along with a special labyrinth cell venting system that does a better job of condensing vapors that are then returned into the cells as a liquid...
Now, if you have a modern 3-stage converter/charger that lowers the charging voltage into a 'float' mode as the battery is fully charged - coupled with modern Calcium alloy lead plates - your ultimate 'water loss' will be much less than we been accustomed too in years past...
Sure there are exceptions, when a cell fails, etc...but by in large, when today's deep cycle batteries are charged and 'floated' properly, you will get years of service life with little water loss...
Self watering systems have their place, in instances where the batteries are cycled often, such as off-grid, battery systems that are deeply discharged between cycles, golf carts, etc...BUT, most RV installations don't see such heavy cycling, and won't require much distilled water at all - IF - maintained properly as noted above with proper modern equipment...
BTW...the 'alloy' is added to the lead used for battery plates (grids) for strength - pure lead sponge grids work best, but aren't strong enough to take the abuse as the plates contract and expand during normal life...
Interestingly, there are some specialty mfg'd batteries that use pure lead sponge for their grids - these batteries perform very well, are of the 'sealed' type, but are quite a bit more expensive due to the increased amount labor required during the specialized manufacturing process...
Ray
__________________
Ray & Pat; Morada, CA
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11-25-2010, 04:58 PM
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#19
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65th Anniversary CLIPPER
1996 36' Clipper Bus
Tub City
, British Columbia
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,309
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Battery Water
From past experience I have found that a once a year battery inspection is all my batteries need.
At that time I remove all chassis/house batteries, wash and hose out the battery compartment, clean and polish posts and cables, repair anything looking needy, and rotate the battery positions (4 x T105's)(2 x HD chassis) inside out. I sample and record, in my maintenance log, each cell with a battery hydrometer.
On reinstallation, I apply terminal GEL to the posts, anti seize to the hold downs, and know that all is well for another year.
I used to do it twice a year, but that proved not to be necessary.
Record everything in your maintenance records for future reference.
If you don't look at these tasks from a preventive maintenance view, they are sure to cause an unexpected crisis when it is most inconvenient.
On another note:
Changing from regular deep cycle to gel batteries may require a change in alternator output setting as the gel require a higher VOLTAGE to charge properly. I have not researched this at length, so will leave it to the experts on this forum to elaborate.
Dave
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