Multi meter-Understanding the differences

[bickp]

First time post, hoping not to embarrass myself. 2019 FC 30' Twin to be built in early October. Have been reading daily for several months.

Electric dryer heating stopped at home this week. After reading/viewing troubleshooting videos, much of the initial troubleshooting starts with some electrical checks. Sounds like a great excuse to update my 40 year old tester.

Searched the forum for "multimeter" and learned about the Klein, Fluke, Harbor Freight and decided on the HD $39 kit.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-To...9149/204367271

Of Course when I got there I saw the Electrical Maintenance and Test Kit

https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/c...e-and-test-kit

They can't put together a package that includes everything, so wondering which would be the consensus as I start to build my AS toolbox.

[DKB_SATX]

Well, someone is always going to come along and tell you that you should've bought what they did instead of what you did, so it might as well be me.

I've always liked Fluke meters, mainly for the fact that I've only ever had 2 Fluke meters, I still have those 2, they work perfectly and one of them I inherited. However, I wanted to measure DC amps without rewiring and I found the Southwire 21050T at Lowe's for $85 a year or so ago. It measures DC amps with the clamp (as well as AC) and it has found a home in the forward compartment of the Flying Cloud (since there's a Fluke in the truck toolbox and a Fluke in the house toolbag.) It's not as intuitive to USE as the Fluke, but it's been useful to be able to track DC current draws from time to time.

[vintagemotor]

If you have not had extensive training in electrical testing and repair, DO NOT ATTEMPT ANYTHING YOU READ ON THIS SITE.
Electricity is extremely dangerous and will kill you if you do not know exactly what you are doing.
Yes even 12V can kill you, or set your Airstream on fire!

[knunut]

Read "Vintagemotor's" Reply

[alano]

Originally Posted by bickp

First time post, hoping not to embarrass myself. 2019 FC 30' Twin to be built in early October. Have been reading daily for several months.

Electric dryer heating stopped at home this week. After reading/viewing troubleshooting videos, much of the initial troubleshooting starts with some electrical checks. Sounds like a great excuse to update my 40 year old tester.

Searched the forum for "multimeter" and learned about the Klein, Fluke, Harbor Freight and decided on the HD $39 kit.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-To...9149/204367271

Of Course when I got there I saw the Electrical Maintenance and Test Kit

https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/c...e-and-test-kit

They can't put together a package that includes everything, so wondering which would be the consensus as I start to build my AS toolbox.

This looks perfectly adequate for debugging most issues for light use. I personally prefer Fluke DVMs, but for $39 you can't go wrong.

Not sure why vintagemotor threw in the warning (he scared the crap out of me). The OP is replacing a 40 year old tester, so he's not a neophyte.

[A W Warn]

Originally Posted by bickp

First time post, hoping not to embarrass myself. 2019 FC 30' Twin to be built in early October. Have been reading daily for several months.

Electric dryer heating stopped at home this week. After reading/viewing troubleshooting videos, much of the initial troubleshooting starts with some electrical checks. Sounds like a great excuse to update my 40 year old tester.

Searched the forum for "multimeter" and learned about the Klein, Fluke, Harbor Freight and decided on the HD $39 kit.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-To...9149/204367271

Of Course when I got there I saw the Electrical Maintenance and Test Kit

https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/c...e-and-test-kit

They can't put together a package that includes everything, so wondering which would be the consensus as I start to build my AS toolbox.

The HD kit you purchased is better than what I have used for years. What I have did everything I need, to test the electrical systems on my Airstream and/or around the house and/or on my vehicles. If I need more specialized tools, then I need more a specialized/tech person than me.

My old multi-meters both just stopped working just last week. I like what you purchased, so I might get the same. Thank you for your post.

[turk123]

Originally Posted by vintagemotor

If you have not had extensive training in electrical testing and repair, DO NOT ATTEMPT ANYTHING YOU READ ON THIS SITE.
Electricity is extremely dangerous and will kill you if you do not know exactly what you are doing.
Yes even 12V can kill you, or set your Airstream on fire!

Put down that "C" battery before you touch both ends and kill yourself!!

[vintagemotor]

Originally Posted by alano

This looks perfectly adequate for debugging most issues for light use. I personally prefer Fluke DVMs, but for $39 you can't go wrong.

Not sure why vintagemotor threw in the warning (he scared the crap out of me). The OP is replacing a 40 year old tester, so he's not a neophyte.

Sorry if I came on a little strong, but wanted to point out the need for safety. I have "re-fixed" a large amount of scary repairs in the electrical department and as Airstream raises the technical nature of these beautiful vessels, the electrical systems become more and more complex. We now add high wattage solar, inverters, instant hot water, and don't get me started on the Firefly or Alde!!! These systems become more dangerous to the everyday DIYer.

In a nutshell, become as educated as possible, and follow all safety precautions, buy quality tools and testing equipment (doesn't have to be expensive, just quality), and enjoy working on your AS, and in the OP's case his home electric dryer which is most likely 240V so please be careful!

[rmkrum]

Most people are fairly cautious around 120 volt AC power. I do note that 12 volt systems in Airstreams can be at least as dangerous in the flash burn area.

The issue is that 12 volt battery systems are quite capable of generating a lot of sparks, flash, and melted tools due to the high current capacity of the batteries (especially big golf cart batteries) and inadequate protective devices.

I don't know about more modern Airstreams, but my 2007 DID NOT come with any sort of a cutoff switch or a fuse at the positive post of the battery. There is nothing besides the wire to limit current in case something shorts out to ground or the shell or frame of the Airstream. Heat, smoke and flames will surely follow a short circuit in the battery leads.

Yes, I'm fixing this as fast as I can. Marine-rated fuses, a battery cutoff switch, a solar panel and controller isolation switch and the like are all going in ASAP. Even though I know what I'm doing, I'd rather not leave stuff to chance...one fumble with a tool in the wrong place will not be fun, but it will be interesting in the Spockian sense...one raised eyebrow and all.

[bickp]

Originally Posted by vintagemotor

If you have not had extensive training in electrical testing and repair, DO NOT ATTEMPT ANYTHING YOU READ ON THIS SITE.
Electricity is extremely dangerous and will kill you if you do not know exactly what you are doing.
Yes even 12V can kill you, or set your Airstream on fire!

Thanks V: I totally agree with you which is why I asked the question. Nobody knows my shortcomings better than I!!

That said, I have been building my retirement home for the last 18 years on the shores of Lake Mich and had a professional install my service panel. I have wired the entire house so I have some experience. But every step of the way was with book in hand because I understand the need to do it right. By the way, the house passed electrical inspection with flying colors.

But to the matter at hand. I am really concerned about the AS. Inverters, converters, none of this stuff was part of my building project so I'm starting a new learning phase and want to do it right.
As I read the spec's of the two kits (links on original post), there was a lack of consistency. Since I'm new to the DC world I was just looking for some personal knowledge about how to start my AS tool kit. Trust me, I will always err on the side of safety. That's one reason it's taken 18 years on the house project before moving to the next.

[vintagemotor]

Originally Posted by bickp

Thanks V: I totally agree with you which is why I asked the question. Nobody knows my shortcomings better than I!!

That said, I have been building my retirement home for the last 18 years on the shores of Lake Mich and had a professional install my service panel. I have wired the entire house so I have some experience. But every step of the way was with book in hand because I understand the need to do it right. By the way, the house passed electrical inspection with flying colors.

But to the matter at hand. I am really concerned about the AS. Inverters, converters, none of this stuff was part of my building project so I'm starting a new learning phase and want to do it right.
As I read the spec's of the two kits (links on original post), there was a lack of consistency. Since I'm new to the DC world I was just looking for some personal knowledge about how to start my AS tool kit. Trust me, I will always err on the side of safety. That's one reason it's taken 18 years on the house project before moving to the next.

YOU ARE AWESOME! Book in hand is always the best way to go, I do the same even after years of experience.
You are opening a box of worms when you talk about converters/inverters/solar here so be ready. Read everything and take in all opinions with a grain of salt, we all know the best way, (even when we don't), I am no way an expert of everything, just a lifelong student of everything!

As for your DC toolkit:
1- AC/DC multi meter with audio tone for continuity, Fluke is the best.
2- Midtronics PBT-200 battery tester (carbon pile load testers are Dead)
3- Assortment of replacement fuses
And if you want to get real fancy, a Power Probe III to test and apply +/- to circuits.

And of course remember that for the first 2 years, the AS warranty will pay for everything that might go wrong, just be sure to visit your nearest 5-Rivet dealer to be assured the same service that Wally would have performed!

Now go get that AS!

[SSquared]

I encourage you to look for a clamp-type meter that can measure DC current with the clamp, not just AC (the Klein CL100 you linked to only does AC). That is useful for things like testing the current draw for the brakes on each individual wheel and monitoring the trailer total DC draw while you are chasing a mystery load.

Also, some (many?) meters that measure DC current via wire connections through the body of the meter can only measure up to 10 amps. That isn't enough for the breakaway switch current on a two-axle trailer, or the charge current from a 160-watt solar panel. The clamp-on meters go much higher.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by SSquared

I encourage you to look for a clamp-type meter that can measure DC current with the clamp, not just AC (the Klein CL100 you linked to only does AC). That is useful for things like testing the current draw for the brakes on each individual wheel and monitoring the trailer total DC draw while you are chasing a mystery load.

Also, some (many?) meters that measure DC current via wire connections through the body of the meter can only measure up to 10 amps. That isn't enough for the breakaway switch current on a two-axle trailer, or the charge current from a 160-watt solar panel. The clamp-on meters go much higher.

The Southwire 21050T I mentioned earlier (about $85 at Lowe's, available many other places I'm sure) is good for this. It's not as intuitive to operate as a Fluke, but the Flukes that do it cost 3x as much. Up to 400A.

[bickp]

Your replies give me something to google about as I start to build the tool kit. Lots more questions to come, but I'll do searches before posting. Have been through the 2018 owners manual once. Now that the 19 manual is on the AS site, I'm going through that as well.

Shopping list underway. Checklists on the horizon!

Thanks everyone.

[SilverHouseDreams]

Originally Posted by vintagemotor

Sorry if I came on a little strong, but wanted to point out the need for safety. I have "re-fixed" a large amount of scary repairs in the electrical department

Should we all start talking about the “re-fixing” we’ve done from “certified” electricians? I have a pretty long list, thankfully none of them burned my house down but could easily have...and this was by “experienced” and well regarded “professionals”.

[RandyNH]

Originally Posted by vintagemotor

Sorry if I came on a little strong, but wanted to point out the need for safety.

And with that, my sister broke her ankle last week, stepping off her trailers bottom step.
DON'T DO IT, STAY OUT, SELL IT NOW.
As long as your buying new, as indicated earlier, if you have solar especially, get one with a clamp that measures DC amps. Works wonders for finding bad grounding issues..

[Caffeinated]

Originally Posted by vintagemotor

If you have not had extensive training in electrical testing and repair, DO NOT ATTEMPT ANYTHING YOU READ ON THIS SITE.
Electricity is extremely dangerous and will kill you if you do not know exactly what you are doing.

This is just crazy talk. Yes electricity can kill. But Anyone with a basic knowledge of electricity can do simple repairs on their airstream or home if they follow basic safety procedures.

What are simple repairs? Installing a new wall plug on your home, or a light fixture. Installing a new converter. (hopefully a easy replacement slide in module) replacing your batteries. Installing a marine cutoff switch for your batteries. Replacing a TV or radio. All of that is relatively easy, and to say people will die if they do it is rediculous.

Basic safety precautions? Unplug your trailer, or if working on your house, find the circuit breaker that controls the circuit you are working on and turn it off. Disconnect your batteries. And you are good to go.

Mike