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Old 06-11-2016, 11:25 AM   #29
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We just bought a 59 Flying Cloud with no battery system so are installing one and would like to use lithium batteries, probably 400 AH, and are also trying to figure out where to buy them. AM Solar seems to be completely sold out. Since we are building the system from scratch, is there any advantage to using the "drop in " batteries sold by Smart and Stark versus the more cellular looking ones sold by EPS? We are also installing solar cells and are having a repair shop do the installation. Any thoughts appreciated as we are new to all of this! Thanks
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Old 06-11-2016, 09:03 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Driftin Di View Post
We just bought a 59 Flying Cloud with no battery system so are installing one and would like to use lithium batteries, probably 400 AH, and are also trying to figure out where to buy them. AM Solar seems to be completely sold out. Since we are building the system from scratch, is there any advantage to using the "drop in " batteries sold by Smart and Stark versus the more cellular looking ones sold by EPS? We are also installing solar cells and are having a repair shop do the installation. Any thoughts appreciated as we are new to all of this! Thanks

The new Victron lithiums are 'on the water' and the first lot is expected in 2-3 weeks. These are a premium cell with an excellent monitoring system including a low temperature cut-off.

Maybe worth the wait??


Lew Farber
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Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
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Lifeline AGM Batteries**Magnum Inverters***Victron Energy Components
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Old 07-26-2016, 08:36 PM   #31
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Lithium batteries – where to buy?

UPDATE!!!

Our next Victron lithium shipment is on the way via motor freight. We expect delivery on or about Aug. 2.
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Old 09-05-2016, 01:03 AM   #32
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Lithium charge voltage

Lithium Iron Phosphate in theory are 3.65 volts per cell and fully charges a 4 cell pack is 14.6 volts.

I have used the Calb cells for a year now charging a 100 amp/hour 4 cell pack at that voltage.
I just had a cell go bad, but they are in an aluminum box in my tow vehicle and it has been over 100 degrees this summer.

The big challenge with the Calb cells is cell balancing which I critical with lithium batteries.
I have these micro boards that go across the cells to balance them, all feed back to a control board. Then a custom fabricated aluminum battery box, grommets, 400 amp breaker, etc. A lot of work for a 14.6 volt/100 aH pack.

I have also used a Battery Tender lithium battery which has the cell balancer built in, an easier to manage package.

I think we will see more Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries come to market in the next year or two.

The chargers in this industry are relatively basic when it comes to lithium.

I fly carbon fiber model planes as a hobby and use lithium cobalt batteries in those, like a Tesla.
They are charged to 4.20 volts per cell, much higher energy density than Lithium Iron Phosphate, and much higher discharge rates. My charger made in the UK balances during charging to 0.01 volts per cell.

Some have fabricated their own battery packs using that technology which is the Panasonic 18650 battery.

I have yet to see an RV fully powered by 18650 batteries. The challenge, they can get hot and catch on fire. In high performance model planes we discharge at 50-100C. The key to a Tesla is the cell management and cooling technology to enhance reliability.

I have talked with Progressive Dynamics about their charge board and it is set up for a 14.6 volt lithium pack.

I now want to run a 48 volt pack which is actually 16 cells of 3.65 volts or 58.4 volts fully charged.

I bought a Outback Power Flex Max 80 so I can program each phase of the charge cycle to .1 volts.

Dan






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The PD-9100L charges the LiPo batteries at 14.6VDC……………..much higher than the 14.2 VDC that 'we' (AM Solar) have found top be optimal after extensive testing of a variety of different cells. . No mention of the 'float or 'silent' voltage after that batteries are fully charged either. That might be one of the advantages of being 'took expensive'……as anything we sell or use has been through the ringer, literally and figuratively! Just be careful out there and remember…..YTOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!!!

They also might have tailored these units to the requirements of the 2 lithium battery sources that they list on their web site: Stark Power and Relion.

And just for clarification, the "Master Tech" that PD refers to in the same sectarian is not me, but Master Techs, Inc, a wholesale supplier of electronic equipment for the RV industry in Marshall, MI.
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Old 12-03-2017, 12:12 PM   #33
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I wanted to post this information as it is fantastic news though, perhaps not so fantastic to recent lithium embracers. Battery peeps may already know this but...

Fiskers has a patent on a new type of battery (graphene) that, according to sources will make lithium obsolete. It is a solid state battery and mass production is planned beginning in 2020. The difference between lithium and this new type is around 2X the actual storage capacity (amp/hrs) and, get this, around 5X faster to full charge- this compared to lithium. There are several news channels and articles buzzing as it supposedly will revolutionize solar, EV and other markets that are battery dependent. Most articles are focused on the use in electric cars and the demise of Tesla by the big car companies who will jump in and be able to subsidize their EV with conventional sales and offer lower pricing. This is already making major inroads in portable computing, etc. Interesting times we live in.

https://www.sciencealert.com/samsung...aster-graphene

https://electrek.co/2017/11/14/fiske...electric-cars/
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Old 12-03-2017, 12:36 PM   #34
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Lithium batteries – where to buy?

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Originally Posted by bono View Post
Hi Guys,



I am planning to install 200-400 Ah lithium batteries. What are the reliable sources of the batteries? AM Solar is too expensive. Another source I found is Elite Power Solutions. Are you familiar with the second one? Can you suggest other sources?



Thank you,



Artur


For a large, complete 400amp hour system, done right with solid and proven technology (like victron) with hybrid programable inverter / charger with 50A pass through, 800 watts of solar with programable moot controller, integrated monitoring system, cold weather protection, trailer 120v power panel re-wire, etc etc you are going to pay in the order of $20k including professional installation. Most people take the opportunity to add mobile phone reception booster and a few other things at this time when the patient is open.

DIY is maybe $12k+ materials alone for a complete system.

This is a massive job if you want to do it right - 60+ man hours done by a professional. Double that for first time DIY.

You absolutely get what you pay for. Dropping in a new battery is one thing, and that may very well meet your shorter term needs, but if you want a complete integrated system that will perform for the next decade for off grid living that is something else.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:23 AM   #35
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Lithum batteries 400Ah (http://www.starlightsolar.com)
640W solar panels
Magnum MS2812 inverter

The whole system cost me around $12-13k with installation, including relocation of the batteries to the trailer. I needed to tow the trailer to South California to save $4k on the installation, but everything works perfectly for last 1.5 years.
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:11 AM   #36
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bono, thank you for filling us in on the "rest of the story". Sounds like a happy ending.

Thanks Lewster and all other contributors for sharing your experienes. Food for thought on how to upgrade the Phoenix.
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