Interstate Batteries: AGM or Standard Experiences

[davidrrand]

]
All I know is the battery display in the galley always showed 13.6 volts in my 2016 FC with the stock converter. Just replaced with PD4655 and now display will show voltages of 13.1, 13.6 and 14.4 depending on which mode the converter is in.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Back a bit we hit the real issue with batteries. "I can do whatever I want and camp for X days without a problem". It does not matter what X is, that's not the point. The gotcha is that there is no magic X. People very much want to look at it that way, you can't. Turn on this and that in any of these stock trailers and you are dead flat in much less than a day. Get really careful and watch everything / understand everything and you can run a few days. Toss in solar and maybe it's more than a few days.

The same thing applies to storage. You *probably* can go for some number of days running the parasitic loads. Unless you have measured the exact gear in your trailer, what your loads are is a total guess. People who have measured them report numbers that span at least a 2:1 range. The charge state / capacity of your batteries is also a guess (unless you have a full blown monitor system). Net result, maybe you can store for two weeks ... maybe you can store for four days ... who knows ....

Yes, it's crazy.

Bob

[marter]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

Or those of you who are more daring... testing a 9 volt battery using your... tongue.

Are you saying there is another way to test 9v batteries?

[Tom_T]

We've had Interstate batteries in our cars since the late 1970's - & our `88 VW Westfalia full camper van uses the car battery as the house battery (until recently) since we got it new. The early ones were "sealed wet cell" & more recently AGM.



First - we need to draw a line about 7-10 years ago when both Interstate (AGM & Sealed wet) & Optima (AGM only) - I think Optima was part of Interstate before then for some time (maybe) - were purchased by an offshore company (i.e.: no longer a USA company), & production was moved to China/Southeast Asia (& apparently Mexico too) - from the former USA production.



Pre-sale both of their warranties on batteries were available from 24 to 84+ months, with respectively higher prices. After the sale ALL batteries for both were dropped to 24 months only, then some became only 12 I think.


And there has been a SIGNIFICANT decline in quality & increased QC issues with both brands since then, & most of what your experiencing is the result of lower quality batteries from a formally top notch battery worth every cent! This is true for both auto/truck & deep cycle RV/Marine flavors of their products.


My longtime mechanic since 1975 had initially highly recommended them, starting in the late `70's due to the issue of the battery location in the mid-engine Porsche 914 I had/have & not wanting leaks in the engine bay with an open mesh top open to rain/etc. & resultant problems with acid eating fuel lines & causing engine fires (NHTSA issued the "HO" Recall, which is still valid if you have a 914).



Our 1960 Avion T20 has had it's "yellow top" Optima RV/Marine since the prior owners had it installed during their 2006-07 resto of the vintage trailer, & it's still going strong - but that was still with the old school pre-sale long warranty GOOD Optima batteries. It's still going strong, & we usually keep the T20 plugged into 120v 20A when parked here at home,



Both of our other cars have interior battery locations: our 88 Westy has interior battery boxes under the front seat (L is for an aux. house battery - see below, & right is the std. auto/house battery), & the 85 BMW 325e E30 has the battery in the trunk sidewell - so leakage was a concern for both of them too.


Up until the change we'd have outstanding service life out of the Interstates on all cars. And the last pre-sale Interstate combo auto/house battery lasting years after the 84 month warranty up to 11.5 years - even with it having been totally depleted many times on camping trips by house use (I carry a small charger). The ones in the other 2 cars lasted 10-12+ years, even with occasional running of the 914 up until +/-1992, before my just disconnecting & storing that car.



However, the last round of post-sale batteries barely last the 24 months warranty - 18-24.1 months to be precise, and both the newer Interstates in the BMW & Westy had problems within 1-4 months & had to be replaced under warranty due to various problems - & both were 2-3 changed out batteries!


During our 2012-13 rolling resto of our Westy, I had Hans add the factory auxiliary house battery kit & an Interstate AGM battery, which has now failed 2x, with 16 months the longest time & 11 months on the 1st Interstate - & we're trying another brand in there.



We're original owners on the Westy & BMW, & I'm 2nd owner since 1975 on my `73 914-2.0 - so you're getting a very long term experience here from someone who knows the vehicles well, as well as from my uber-experienced mechanic. He still uses Interstate batteries, but is looking for other better options TBD.



So I'm no longer an Interstate & Optima fan.


Another option which I'll be looking at for my 73 914's resto will be a drycell type of battery which are commonly used by hobby-weekend-racer types (as well as some of the new LiO batteries).



Summit sells the Odyssey dry cell batteries at the bottom link for example, but shop them around too:


https://www.summitracing.com/search/...25527%2B400109



Due to their lighter weight compared to wet cell & AGM lead acid batteries, they would offer weight savings in your trailer/RV as well.



Hope this is helpful.


Cheers!
Tom
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[Ray Eklund]

Tom T... there is no better information that of experience. Thank You.

Die Hard Batteries from Sears...

I worked among the Night Crew at 17 years old at the Kansas City, MO Sears Catalog and Retail Store. It later became a Post Office Property and today, maybe torn down.

Die Hard batteries had a three or four year warranty. We in the automotive parts department always made light of... Die HARD, as they would die during the warranty, most often than not. You would pay a depreciated price for a replacement... Die Hard battery.

The Panasonic in our 2008 Toyota Land Cruiser has lasted ten years and still going. I have never had to replace a battery in a Toyota Tundra or Land Cruiser. I am sure they cost more that $80.

When we were not sending batteries out the door on warranty... we would be sent to Department 6, Sporting Goods... and given the opportunity to unload Bar Bell Weights for $1.35 or so an hour.

This is when I appreciated getting a good education. I needed to exercise the muscles between my ears, not my shoulders.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

One of the most basic reasons batteries last longer in modern cars ( the ones in my Honda's last no longer than the American brands ) is that the "smarts" in the car get involved. They likely limit the max crank time, they change the compression, they fiddle the mix / spark. I'm sure there is other voodoo involved as well Net result is the starter does not work as long or as hard. They then go to a smaller battery / cables / starter and save weight ( which is the reason they do all that work ).

Just as *some* of the old DieHards made it well past the warranty date, the same thing happens with all batteries. They are not now and never have been terribly consistent devices. The one thing you *can* blame on the DieHard design is shorted cells. They got more capacity by spacing everything tighter in the battery. Less distance between plates meant a higher likelihood of shorts. The marketing edge from the capacity boost outweighed the cost / price adder of the warranty returns.

Bob

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

One of the most basic reasons batteries last longer in modern cars ( the ones in my Honda's last no longer than the American brands ) is that the "smarts" in the car get involved. They likely limit the max crank time, they change the compression, they fiddle the mix / spark. I'm sure there is other voodoo involved as well Net result is the starter does not work as long or as hard. They then go to a smaller battery / cables / starter and save weight ( which is the reason they do all that work ).

Just as *some* of the old DieHards made it well past the warranty date, the same thing happens with all batteries. They are not now and never have been terribly consistent devices. The one thing you *can* blame on the DieHard design is shorted cells. They got more capacity by spacing everything tighter in the battery. Less distance between plates meant a higher likelihood of shorts. The marketing edge from the capacity boost outweighed the cost / price adder of the warranty returns.

Bob

Just to clarify on my experience none of my cars nor the Avion have the "smarts" nor the techno-goodies with parasitic drains on a battery, they being 1960 (Avion), 1973 (914), 1985 (BMW) & 1988 (VW Westy). They are all old school vehicles.


You can't have a more basic test of the change & degradation in quality of the "newer" Interstate & Optima batteries, with none of the "modern car technology" interfering with, causing, nor complicating the battery life.


I'd also used Die Hard in my 914 back in the 1970's with not great results, as the gentleman above noted from his experience working for Sears.



They plain do not last as long, & in many cases not even to the end of warranty!


Cheers!
Tom
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[Jmhandel]

I can agree with the quality issues of batteries in general. Comparing car batteries with rv batteries is misleading. They are used differently for one.
The issue with the airstream converter is that when you are connected to commercial ac the converter is supplying the 12 v DC power and is also constantly charging the battery at 14.4v. a four stage converter will only provide a trickle charge when connected to commercial ac. The constant high voltage results in the battery being over charged and using a lot of water. The overcharging shortens the life of the battery. Airstreams solution is to add water every two weeks. This only masks the real problem.

[Mikeith84]

We purchased a new 2018 25ft Flying Cloud last December and our batteries were dead on arrival. When you purchase a "new" Airstream, never make the mistake that the batteries are in top condition... lesson learned. On our third outing we experienced a strong sulfur-rotten egg- odor. The odor was coming from our new batteries that were about to explode. The dealership did replace the batteries with no questions asked.

[amxpress]

I’ve used Interstate Deep Cyle batteries in last 3 trailers, never had a problem. I have 2 truck batteries in my Cummins diesel and one failed in 3 years.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Jmhandel

I can agree with the quality issues of batteries in general. Comparing car batteries with rv batteries is misleading. They are used differently for one.
The issue with the airstream converter is that when you are connected to commercial ac the converter is supplying the 12 v DC power and is also constantly charging the battery at 14.4v. a four stage converter will only provide a trickle charge when connected to commercial ac. The constant high voltage results in the battery being over charged and using a lot of water. The overcharging shortens the life of the battery. Airstreams solution is to add water every two weeks. This only masks the real problem.

Apparently JM, you missed reading that our 1988 VW Vanagon CamperGL Westfalia "Westy" is in fact a full camper van, & has been used as such since we bought it new in 1988 - 30 years of camping with it. Just as with many/most Class B Van RVs - including the current AS Sprinter based models - the battery does double duty.



So it is NOT misleading to compare.



It in fact is an exact same usage experience with any other RV, since I keep a proper battery maintainer on both batteries between use - & it's even more of a direct comparison since I added the 2nd Interstate RV/deep cycle optional auxiliary/house battery to the Westy, since the sole use as a house battery still has the Interstate RV batteries in that slot failing in a year or so.


However, you may have a point on AS/Thor using an improper battery maintainer/charger/converter on the new AS's, because a correct maintainer with sensors to prevent overcharging won't boil off the water in the wet cells, & you can't refill AGMs anyway. So Thor has apparently cut yet another corner on their AS equipment!


I'd say get a proper battery charger/maintainer & replace the OE problematic ones.


I also said that our old school "pre-sale" Optima AGM RV battery from 2007 in our Avion is still going strong, & when the PO's restored the Avion back then, they had a correct battery charger/maintainer put in - so it's not burning nor boiling off that battery after 11 years of use - & both they & we keep the Avion plugged into 120V full time at home.



So the older Interstate & Optima RV batteries did just fine under constant charging - but the new ones are junk - including the ones in our Westy aux/house battery position!



There is NO WAY that 2 Interstate should've failed in a year or less each in our Westy - with the 3rd to be seen how long it lasts!



Good Luck on fixing your issue!
Tom
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[Ray Eklund]

I am waiting for someone to say that my batteries failed due to the use of 16" Michelin tires on my 25 foot Airstream...

So far, any repairs I have encountered in the last four years must be due to the E Rated tires, not being flexible enough.

Although not one tire failure.

[PKI]

The OEM Interstates did not last long. We replaced with new direct replacement Interstates. My belief is that the batteries were being discharged to a level of charge that damaged the battery bank. While use by the ignorant owner was part of this kill job, the primary death stroke was the parasitic load over the period of time the coach was in storage.

Battery disconnect installed. Converter upgraded. Batteries replaced. Seems to be working. Experience will tell. One year and counting.......... Pat

[Exseedman]

We have a 2016 27FB Flying Cloud. The original Interstate batteries died last fall. We replaced with a pair of Lifeline Group 4 AGM batteries (6-volt). I was cautioned that they might not fit, but they did fine. They are a little bit taller, but work well. I did have to buy a new crossover cable to get me back up to 12 volts. I also installed 3-100 volt solar panels. We have been in Alaska 7 weeks now with no issues and have dry camped significantly. We have never come close to running out of power. Coldest night was in Denali at 27 degrees.

[Eagle & Bear]

When discussing batteries there are a few variables that I know little to nothing about. Our '76 AS has space for a single battery so I need to optimize each component. The battery case can hold a Group 27 AGM but it is tight.

I replaced the original 35# converter with one that has a Wizard as its logo. I used the converter the RV parts store guy told me to buy in 2007. He was kinda gruff but he gave me some good information when I started to refurbish my AS. It seems to be working but I have no idea how long it will last. Unfortunately it is buried under the stove/oven and is a pain to get to.

10 years ago I put a 100W solar panel on the roof all by myself. The original controller that I bought at Fry's died on two years ago. I replaced it with one that the only solar shop for 200 miles in BC on our way to Whitehorse. The controller has three lights that blink on and off but most of the time the green light is on. It seems to keep the battery charged but regardless of what I do the AGM batteries die every two years. At over $250 each it is a painful process to go through.

Six years ago I began to replace all of the incandescent bulbs with LEDs. It took me a year to find and install the correct LEDs. When I tallied everything the LEDs I used to replace the incandescent bulbs cost $1000 but we are able to avoid shore power for weeks at a time.

If anyone has a setup that seems to be working would you please list the brand name and model/type of the batteries and converter that you have experience with and seem to be working well together. A schematic might help us understand what goes where and how to get all of the components to work together. Thanks

[uncle_bob]

Hi

If you are using battery a lot, two years may not be a bad life for a typical battery. There are a lot of applications where lead acid batteries are a "replace every year" sort of thing. Full timing can put a lot of cycles on a battery.

If the battery goes to zero in storage ( ... if it's ever stored), that also will wear it out quickly. Usage patterns matter a lot with lead acid. In most cases, you will get longer service life ( and lower ultimate cost) out of a lithium battery than a lead acid. The tradeoff is significantly higher upfront cost.

So:

Take a look at how you are checking things. How are you monitoring your battery? How do you decide it's to far down to use further? Are you using voltage readings? If so, what voltage and at what temperature?

Step back and think about any time(s) the batteries went below 12V while in use (if you are using voltage) or below 50% (if you have a monitor). If that's a common thing, you need more battery or more charging ( = generator or more solar ).

How are things stored? Do you pull the battery and trickle charge it over the winter? Does it sit in the trailer hooked in when in storage? Does it never go into storage ever?

What's the budget for this process? Adding a couple more solar panels probably will help things. Going to a better solar controller ( = Victron MPPT Smart Solar maybe, there are others ) likely would be needed. As mentioned above lithium is an option. Converters range from simple to fairly fancy. The full bill could be several thousand dollars. Is this what you are after?

Lots of variables.

Bob