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02-19-2017, 10:34 AM
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#1
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Rivet Master
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia
, New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
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Finding electrical problem with a IR thermometer
Today the temps finally came above freezing so to get a head start on some repairs I decided to turn on the heat in the motorhome . My batteries are at 100% from the converter being on overnight, but I switched from converter to solar for the day.(Before the sun was high enough to be useful) As soon as I fired up the furnace the DC volts went from over 13, down below 12.6 and the furnace motor did not have enough speed to get the safety sail to trigger. I put the converter back on and it took right off.
I went to the DC fuse panel with the handy dandy kitchen IR thermometer with laser sight. I aimed it at all the fuses and the main 50A house fuse was about 20 deg. F. warmer than the rest. I took a screwdriver and I could turn the lug screw on that fuse more than a 1/4 turn. After that the furnace runs fine and the IR thermometer shows just a slightly higher than room temp reading on that fuse.
I also snugged up the rest of the terminal screws.
I wish all of this beasts electrical problems were that easy to find and cure!
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02-19-2017, 11:34 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2015 30' Classic
Pleasanton
, California
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 745
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Hats off to you. That's a very impressive diagnosis and use of an IR thermometer! I'd hate to think what a dealer would have charged to solve your furnace issue. I may have to invest in an IR thermometer. Up until now, I didn't see much utility. Curious, what other uses have you found for it?
__________________
Al, K6IV
2015 30' Classic, "Chez Nu"
2014 RAM 2500 w/Cummins Diesel
ProPride Hitch, 400 W Solar
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02-19-2017, 12:19 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
Princeton
, New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
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Try that same experiment on the cable connection at the trucks starter after some power has been drawn by the headlights on without the engine running.
Your vintage GM took all power through that connection and it is common for the connection to begin to open over time and temperature. A very common problem for GM trucks that wont start.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles
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02-19-2017, 01:48 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1999 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Hillsboro
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,406
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Our furnace fan motor was shot.. pulled too many amps..power cabling noticeably warmer, motor noisy and could not easily spin and see it coast to a stop either...
Replaced fan motor.
Nice, Quiet, wires don't get noticably warmer.. and better airflow!
__________________
Peace and Blessings..
Channing
WBCCI# 30676
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02-19-2017, 03:36 PM
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#5
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Home of Vortex tuning
2013 27' FB Eddie Bauer
Spearfish
, South Dakota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 614
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One could take a IR thermometer barhopping, lookin' for hot women
I use it to look at wheel hubs, hot bearings, dragging/not engaging brakes, tires, AC output, medical under tongue.
__________________
"Chip Tank" is in Westwood Ca.
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02-19-2017, 03:42 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia
, New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwf
Our furnace fan motor was shot.. pulled too many amps..power cabling noticeably warmer, motor noisy and could not easily spin and see it coast to a stop either...
Replaced fan motor.
Nice, Quiet, wires don't get noticably warmer.. and better airflow!
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This furnace is a NOS unit I picked up on ebay about 5 years ago. The original furnace that came with this 84 was in bad shape.
My motor bearings were cold this morning, below freezing when I first tried to start it on battery only, with the bad fuse connection. I think the low speed was due to low voltage to the unit. Kicking on the converter boosted it enough to run at normal speed. Fixing the connection allowed it to run on battery alone, so I am sure my motor is fine.
In previous vehicles I have pulled the motors out, cleaned and re-greased the brass bushings, and they would last another year, but the original furnace bushings in this one were so worn that the motor rotor was starting to scrape the stator
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02-19-2017, 03:48 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2008 22' Safari
Spicewood (W of Austin)
, Texas
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDONA
One could take a IR thermometer barhopping, lookin' for hot women
I use it to look at wheel hubs, hot bearings, dragging/not engaging brakes, tires, AC output, medical under tongue.
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Then you could check on mama's temperature when you got back home also....
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02-19-2017, 04:57 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2017 23' Flying Cloud
Parker
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,772
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Been waiting for the price on these iPhone IR cameras to come down. They are now about 1/3 the price they were. We used this in manufacturing facilities. Take pictures of MCC panels, equipment, etc to diagnose issues. At about $130 on amazon, I might grab one for home and AS maintenance.
We use these things for everything. They can find moisture, water damage, drafts, insulation weaknesses, etc.
https://www.wired.com/2014/08/a-revi...-the-flir-one/
__________________
Thanks,
Troutboy
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02-19-2017, 05:26 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
2019 27' Globetrotter
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 691
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I got mine at Harbor Freight when they were on sale. I think they are regulary about $60.00 Think I got mine for 35 to 30. Dave
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02-20-2017, 03:16 AM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia
, New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
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A good thermal image camera would be the best way to go for any heat related project (hot wires or hot ladies). A IR image is a lot better than a single point digital reading.
Ten years ago my brother borrowed a industrial version from work and tested it out in the house for Christmas. This thing had a 6" germanium lens to get high rez, high contrast images. Looking at the windows, Christmas tree, 120VAC outlets, you can see it all in thermal gradients. Only problem is, that unit costs about 10G's
At $130, I guess they are finally getting the cost down to affordable. I am just leery of the image quality at that price?
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02-20-2017, 06:49 AM
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#11
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Rivet Master
2017 23' Flying Cloud
Parker
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,772
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Wayne. Check out the Flir One line of cameras. Quality looks pretty insane from $240-$400.
__________________
Thanks,
Troutboy
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02-20-2017, 08:58 AM
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#12
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Rivet Master
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Tampa
, Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 7,620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneG
A good thermal image camera would be the best way to go for any heat related project (hot wires or hot ladies). A IR image is a lot better than a single point digital reading.
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I saw the smart guys at work taking pictures of the power bay. They did it often with an IR camera so they could see if any of the giant power cables was getting too hot.
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02-20-2017, 11:06 AM
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#13
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Stay CazuaL
2018 25' Flying Cloud
2014 19' Flying Cloud
Reseda
, California
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alano
Hats off to you. That's a very impressive diagnosis and use of an IR thermometer! I'd hate to think what a dealer would have charged to solve your furnace issue. I may have to invest in an IR thermometer. Up until now, I didn't see much utility. Curious, what other uses have you found for it?
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I use it often. For my jobs, I use it as a laser pointer. Otherwise, I would use it to compare the sensor temperature to the actual temperature to calibrate central air systems.
I also use it to see temperatures for equipment cabinet and see whether conviction is sufficient or an active thermal is required.
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02-20-2017, 12:04 PM
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#14
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3 Rivet Member
2002 25' Classic
Kalama
, Washington
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 187
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Visited Pikes Peak years ago. On the descent later, all traffic was pulled over and screened for brake temps with one. A hand on a rim probably works also, but they had a magic number, higher than which put you in the 'time out room' until your brake temps were cool enough. I bought one after that, and have several others in convenient places (fishing vest for surface water temp, kitchen/bbq for cook temp, AS). Great tool with lots of uses.
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02-20-2017, 01:43 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia
, New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
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The reason I purchased the IR thermometer was for making Mead (Honey Wine). When you prep the yeast it has to be in a very narrow temperature range and when you add it to the batch of mead, they must be closely matched in temperature. Using a probe thermometer is slow and can introduce contamination.
I also use them at work to measure the temperature of experiments that are isolated and at high voltage.
It is also great for cooking anything on the stove, oven or grill when you want to get a quick measurement.
I had never considered a IR camera but looking them over on Amazon I see two inexpensive models that hook to a smart phone that are tempting.
The Seek Compact sensor is 206 x 156, slightly higher resolution than the Flir One but without the image overlay the pictures I see online for the Seek are not as well detailed. It does have a wider temperature range, up to 330 deg C, but still rather low for engine work. The standard version is about $200
They also have a Seek Compact Pro version with a 320 x 240 sensor but that one is $500
The new Flir One sensor might be 160 x 120 pixels (that info is from a 3rd party, the spec is not on the Flir web site specs) Its advantage over the Seek is having a normal image camera to overlay the IR image enhances the visual display. A big downer is that the top end temp. on the Flir One is only 120 deg C with a .1 deg step. Not very good for engine heat analysis. So far the best price I could find is $250 US
For now I am undecided about buying anything, I am sure as soon as I do, something with twice the quality will be selling for half the price.
This site has some reviews of these and higher end thermal cameras
http://wiki.ezvid.com/best-thermal-imagers-for-android
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02-21-2017, 03:32 PM
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#16
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Rivet Master
2008 22' Safari
Spicewood (W of Austin)
, Texas
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,922
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The U.S. Army Generator Tech Manual requires IR checks on operating tests of circuitry, bearings, housings, etc. It's a proven technique.
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02-21-2017, 03:58 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
2015 30' Classic
Pleasanton
, California
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 745
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I spent my entire career working with micropower systems that typically consume less than 20 uW so I never had much use for an IR thermometer. After nwclassic's suggestion for BBQ - I'm sold
__________________
Al, K6IV
2015 30' Classic, "Chez Nu"
2014 RAM 2500 w/Cummins Diesel
ProPride Hitch, 400 W Solar
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03-09-2017, 07:39 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
2019 27' Globetrotter
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 691
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Just got an email from Harbor Freight. Their infrared Thermometer is on sale for $14.99. I also noticed a 3 gallon air compressor for 39.99.
So all you bargain hunters go shopping.
No I don't work for Harbor Freight. Dave
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03-09-2017, 11:30 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Walnut Creek
, California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxite
The U.S. Army Generator Tech Manual requires IR checks on operating tests of circuitry, bearings, housings, etc. It's a proven technique.
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Unfortunately, the proven is more art, experience, and inherent color analysis ability than certain data recognition. It is generally a comparative exercise, so take care. The concept is valid, but not certain as changes in heat signature can be fast to develop and may be hidden until failure is imminent.
Certainly an expenditure that does deserve detailed analysis and it is my understanding that system quality as compared to cost continues to improve over time. But in any case, it is a worthy skill to develop, unless cursed with blindness of the color recognition variety. Pat
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03-10-2017, 06:52 PM
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#20
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Rivet Master
2008 22' Safari
Spicewood (W of Austin)
, Texas
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKI
Unfortunately, the proven is more art, experience, and inherent color analysis ability than certain data recognition. It is generally a comparative exercise, so take care. The concept is valid, but not certain as changes in heat signature can be fast to develop and may be hidden until failure is imminent.
Certainly an expenditure that does deserve detailed analysis and it is my understanding that system quality as compared to cost continues to improve over time. But in any case, it is a worthy skill to develop, unless cursed with blindness of the color recognition variety. Pat
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Whaaaa....??? Is that American-English?
It resembles a bunch of useless double-speak.
Use an IR to see if connections or bearings are significantly hotter than their counterparts. That's all there is to it.
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