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Old 01-10-2015, 08:26 AM   #71
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27fb tongue wieght

I wieghed the tongue wieght of my 27fb international and it was 1042 lbs. This was with the trailer completely unloaded, as it came from dealer. Full propane tanks, and @4 gallons of water in fresh tank. Actually it was jack wieght, but close enough.
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Old 01-10-2015, 09:43 AM   #72
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Looking for other ideas to reduce hitch weight, I had a look at the Airstream Europe website. They have 5 models ranging from a 22ft 4000lb TT to a 27ft model that weighs in at about 6000lbs. They have 2, smaller propane bottles mounted on the A frame tight up against the front wall. It looks like the batteries are probably mounted inside the TT. MAX, not to exceed, hitch weight is 331lbs for all of them which works out between 4 and 6% hitch weight. Based on our convention to not go below 10% or suffer sway issues, these TT should all have major stability issues but that sounds like a topic for another forum.....
Smaller tow vehicles are the norm in Europe so Airstram adjusts. They use different hitch systems in Europe.

Until the U.S. auto industry downsizes there will be no stimulus for AS to change their US designs.

Too bad you can't buy a Euopean model. Doesn't AS manufacture the European models in JC and ship them overseas?

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Old 01-10-2015, 04:48 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by KJRitchie View Post

Too bad you can't buy a Euopean model. Doesn't AS manufacture the European models in JC and ship them overseas?

Kelvin
Pretty sure they do. I believe the tour guide pointed out some European models parked outside the JC factory after our tour this spring.
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Old 01-10-2015, 04:52 PM   #74
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I think I saw one - aren't they 7' 6"?
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Old 01-10-2015, 10:01 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiobrits View Post
Looking for other ideas to reduce hitch weight, I had a look at the Airstream Europe website. They have 5 models ranging from a 22ft 4000lb TT to a 27ft model that weighs in at about 6000lbs. They have 2, smaller propane bottles mounted on the A frame tight up against the front wall. It looks like the batteries are probably mounted inside the TT. MAX, not to exceed, hitch weight is 331lbs for all of them which works out between 4 and 6% hitch weight. Based on our convention to not go below 10% or suffer sway issues, these TT should all have major stability issues but that sounds like a topic for another forum.....

Anyone want to give 4% hitch weight a whirl and report back?
I have a copy of the european AS manual, all 150 pages of it (PDF format). I wish I could give you a link to it, but I no longer have the reference which was posted here on the forum about a year ago.

The manual goes into great detail about what they call "snaking" which we call sway. For some reason Europe does not even allow weight distribution hitches, so the tongue weights are very low, and thus all of the information on "snaking" and how to control it. They make a very big deal of "snaking" issues as well they might. They make a huge issue of loading the trailer and where weight is put. They have very small water and holding tanks to keep not only the weight down, but so empty or full they make little difference in the tongue weight, so the trailers don't go unstable.

When I read the manual, I am very thankful that we don't have such unstable Airstreams with very low hitch weights sold in this country.

Do not assume that the European Airstreams have solved the issue of sway control. They have not, and that is made very clear in the European Airstream manual.
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Old 01-10-2015, 11:37 PM   #76
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European trailer speed limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiobrits View Post
Looking for other ideas to reduce hitch weight, I had a look at the Airstream Europe website. They have 5 models ranging from a 22ft 4000lb TT to a 27ft model that weighs in at about 6000lbs. They have 2, smaller propane bottles mounted on the A frame tight up against the front wall. It looks like the batteries are probably mounted inside the TT. MAX, not to exceed, hitch weight is 331lbs for all of them which works out between 4 and 6% hitch weight. Based on our convention to not go below 10% or suffer sway issues, these TT should all have major stability issues but that sounds like a topic for another forum.....
European countries have low speed limits for towing trailers. I have not seen an authoritative reference for this, but 80 KPH for heavy (over 750KG; 1650 pounds) seems to be the rule. That's about 50MPH. That significantly reduces sway.
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Old 01-10-2015, 11:54 PM   #77
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European countries have low speed limits for towing trailers. I have not seen an authoritative reference for this, but 80 KPH for heavy (over 750KG; 1650 pounds) seems to be the rule. That's about 50MPH. That significantly reduces sway.
In the UK, that was the upper limit on single carriageway (non-divided) roads when we lived there. Dual carriageways (divided two lane) and motorways had a towing limit of 60 mph.
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Old 01-11-2015, 05:23 AM   #78
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Not only are weight distribution hitches not used in Europe they are not legal in several countries.

To add insult to injury they also do not allow Electric Brakes so they have surge brakes usually actuated by cables or rods. This means that when your trailer does start to snake you can't just apply the trailer brakes to straighten it out.

It is funny with all their advanced cars their trailers have brakes like a model A Ford.

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Old 01-25-2015, 04:55 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike S. View Post
I wieghed the tongue wieght of my 27fb international and it was 1042 lbs. This was with the trailer completely unloaded, as it came from dealer. Full propane tanks, and @4 gallons of water in fresh tank. Actually it was jack wieght, but close enough.
Note that Airstream will provide the as weighed factory weights including tongue if you provide the VIN. Contact them on the website using the "Company/FAQ's" section on their homepage indicating you need to know the weight before buying. The model I have bought had a catalogue tongue of 770 lbs (27FB International) and an as built, per Airstream, of 844 lbs with 60 lbs of propane. It has the second AC and a few other options so was expected to be slightly heavier. The second AC is supposed to add 52 lbs to the tongue so this is close to the as weighed 844 lbs considering there are a few other options also.

I pick it up next Friday and will weigh it. I'll be interested to see what weight I get.
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Old 01-27-2015, 07:24 AM   #80
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You can look up the European models and it gives the tongue weights, you will find they are very light. These trailers aren't made to be pulled the miles we put on them ...the cables or rods do apply the brakes when or if the trailer starts to sway
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Old 02-16-2015, 04:05 PM   #81
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I have a 2015 FC FB Twin that we purchased a couple of weeks ago. We anticipate using my wife's Grand Cherokee as a tow vehicle, at least for the time being, so this forum has been of interest to me. Attached are photos of various configurations related to tongue weight:
Photo1 is the indicated weight with full propane, no water, trailer empty.
Photo2 is the indicated weight after I removed the propane tanks, batteries, and spare tire and tire rack.
Photos 3 and 4 show how I relocated those same items to the very rear of the trailer (between the seats of the dinette, table removed)
Photo 5 shows the indicated weight with those items as far back in the trailer as I could get them. (Sorry about the rotated pics)
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Old 02-16-2015, 04:52 PM   #82
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Hi - congrats on the new trailer. I'm not an expert - but for some reason, propane tanks inside the trailer - with batteries on top of them no less - makes me terribly uncomfortable.

I may not understand what you're doing with them in that configuration - maybe just demonstrating the change in tongue weight - or maybe planning an installation like that....if the latter, I would encourage you to get a read from the experts here about the relative safety of that plan.

Good luck!
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Old 02-16-2015, 04:59 PM   #83
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It would be interesting if you moved only the batteries and weighed.

Kelvin
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Old 02-16-2015, 05:46 PM   #84
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Very, very interesting. Shows what moving loads to different locations can do for tongue weight. I don't think you mean to mount propane tanks or spare tire carrier inside as a solution, but it could be gear we normally carry of similar weights.

I'm shooting for 700-800# on our FC 25 RB and this demonstrates it is quite possible and within the 10% of total on the ball we're looking for. It also means moving loads is another solution to the problem of light-payload tow vehicles.

Thanks for posting.
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