Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-18-2007, 10:48 AM   #1
Rivet Master
 
toastie's Avatar
 
1955 22' Safari
Currently Looking...
Great Lake State , .
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,480
Electrical question - tongue jack

This week I installed a new Ultra 3002 electric tongue jack, the old hand crank was on its last leg. I connected the wire from the Ultra to where the Bargman 7 pin cable connects to the trailer (black wire, 10 gauge, battery charge), it works, but not enough power to lift the trailer. The battery and converter are new last year, but I think the converter isn't charging the battery properly and I don't want to tear into a major wiring job, everything works great electrical in this 42 year old trailer and better to leave it alone. My question is, would it be alright to attach the Ultra wire just after the converter?, I tried this and it works great, plenty of power, any thoughs would be helpful.........
toastie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 10:57 AM   #2
Site Team
 
azflycaster's Avatar

 
2002 25' Safari
Dewey , Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 15,606
Images: 62
Blog Entries: 1
I am a little confused by your question. Are you saying that you do not get enough power from the battery even when plugged into shore power? If that is the case you do have a battery / charge problem. In most cases the jack is on a line to the battery because of the break away switch which is normally connected to the same circut. If you do not have enough battery to operate the jack, would you have enough battery to power to stop your trailer in a break away condition?
__________________

Richard

Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
azflycaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 11:55 AM   #3
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
Images: 12
First test the voltage on your battery with out being pluged in with the shore line. Now plug in and test again. If the convertor is working you should see at least 1 volt more at the battery when pluged in. That will answer the question of the convertor charging or not.

Now with a charged battery the jack should be wired to the positive side of the battery with as short a wire as possible. Generaly the trailer brake away switch is wired is at the trailer tongue and has a large enough guage wire to support the jack. Attach there and check it out.

If you are seeing different power levels depending on where you have wired the jack I would assume that the wire guage is too small somewhere in the circuit that is giving low power or there is a poor connection in that circuit.
Check all connections to be sure they are tight and clean and that the wire guage is at least #12 going all the way from the battery positive to the jack.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 01:01 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
1977 31' Sovereign
1963 26' Overlander
1989 34' Excella
Johnsburg , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,944
You might also have a bad ground connection on the jack or from the battery ground to trailer ground. Check the size of wire going to negative on the battery and how it connects into the frame of the trailer. If it is just grounded to the aluminum that is not enough. The ground from the aluminum to the steel may be poor due to rust on the steel.
dwightdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 02:38 PM   #5
Rivet Master
 
toastie's Avatar
 
1955 22' Safari
Currently Looking...
Great Lake State , .
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwightdi
You might also have a bad ground connection on the jack or from the battery ground to trailer ground. Check the size of wire going to negative on the battery and how it connects into the frame of the trailer. If it is just grounded to the aluminum that is not enough. The ground from the aluminum to the steel may be poor due to rust on the steel.
The jack is internally grounded, and I clean the the frame very good where it
mate's to the jack.........
toastie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 03:11 PM   #6
Rivet Master
 
toastie's Avatar
 
1955 22' Safari
Currently Looking...
Great Lake State , .
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE
First test the voltage on your battery with out being pluged in with the shore line. Now plug in and test again. If the convertor is working you should see at least 1 volt more at the battery when pluged in. That will answer the question of the convertor charging or not.

Now with a charged battery the jack should be wired to the positive side of the battery with as short a wire as possible. Generaly the trailer brake away switch is wired is at the trailer tongue and has a large enough guage wire to support the jack. Attach there and check it out.

If you are seeing different power levels depending on where you have wired the jack I would assume that the wire guage is too small somewhere in the circuit that is giving low power or there is a poor connection in that circuit.
Check all connections to be sure they are tight and clean and that the wire guage is at least #12 going all the way from the battery positive to the jack.
With shore power on, I checked the converter and it was 16.5 volts, than I check the battery at 11.1 volts, than I ran a #10 gauge wire directly to the positive side of battery to the Jack, than I tryed the Jack and it didn't work,
than I switched the toggles shown in the picture to battery power and it worked, but barely, than I check the battery and it was at 4 volts.........
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0853.JPG
Views:	135
Size:	96.9 KB
ID:	34100  
toastie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 03:20 PM   #7
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
Images: 12
You have what is called a dead battery. Not sure why if it is only a year old but if the convertor is putting out 16 volts I suspect it cooked the battery. The convertor should only put out about 14.7 max. Look in the battery and check the water level I suppect you will not see much.

If the battery is low and has boiled out the wtaer do not put a new battery on that convertor until it is either calibrated or replaced. If you do it will cook that battery also.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 03:31 PM   #8
Rivet Master
 
toastie's Avatar
 
1955 22' Safari
Currently Looking...
Great Lake State , .
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE
You have what is called a dead battery. Not sure why if it is only a year old but if the convertor is putting out 16 volts I suspect it cooked the battery. The convertor should only put out about 14.7 max. Look in the battery and check the water level I suppect you will not see much.

If the battery is low and has boiled out the wtaer do not put a new battery on that convertor until it is either calibrated or replaced. If you do it will cook that battery also.
The converter was new last fall, I checked the battery and it is full of water...........
toastie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 04:00 PM   #9
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
Images: 12
If you are saying the convertor is putting out 16+ volts but the battery is only 11 volts when first checked something is wrong in the wireing from the convertor to the battery. You should see the same voltage at both ends of the wire from the convertor to the battery, convertor output voltage.

Solve this problem first,and get a charge on the battery,then lets look at the jack.

I still question the high convertor output voltage having had a runaway convertor cook my batteries but that a secondary question at the moment.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 04:15 PM   #10
Rivet Master
 
toastie's Avatar
 
1955 22' Safari
Currently Looking...
Great Lake State , .
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE
If you are saying the convertor is putting out 16+ volts but the battery is only 11 volts when first checked something is wrong in the wireing from the convertor to the battery. You should see the same voltage at both ends of the wire from the convertor to the battery, convertor output voltage.

Solve this problem first,and get a charge on the battery,then lets look at the jack.

I still question the high convertor output voltage having had a runaway convertor cook my batteries but that a secondary question at the moment.
I just took out the battery and it is on the charger, the battery charger is reading 6 amp
toastie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 05:22 PM   #11
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
Images: 12
While the battery is out read the voltage on the positive battery lead while plugged in. Read it with the volt meter between the neg. and pos battery leads and between the pos. lead and a good chassis ground. Make sure that lead is not touching any metal when you plug in.
Post what you find.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 05:48 PM   #12
Rivet Master
 
toastie's Avatar
 
1955 22' Safari
Currently Looking...
Great Lake State , .
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE
While the battery is out read the voltage on the positive battery lead while plugged in. Read it with the volt meter between the neg. and pos battery leads and between the pos. lead and a good chassis ground. Make sure that lead is not touching any metal when you plug in.
Post what you find.
Are you talking about the positve and neg. cables the hook to the battery inside the trailer?
toastie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 06:50 PM   #13
Rivet Master
 
toastie's Avatar
 
1955 22' Safari
Currently Looking...
Great Lake State , .
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE
While the battery is out read the voltage on the positive battery lead while plugged in. Read it with the volt meter between the neg. and pos battery leads and between the pos. lead and a good chassis ground. Make sure that lead is not touching any metal when you plug in.
Post what you find.
HowieE

I attached a wiring diagram of my converter which has a built in charger,
when installing into the 65 Caravel I took out the old univolt and followed the the same wiring scheme, I don't know how many times the Caravel has been rewired so I followed the same, everthing does work, so, with that said, plus and neg went what appearers to be a distribution panel, battery went to the same distribution panel, it appear to me that I need to run another plus, neg wire from conveter to battery, the way its hook-up now, I don't see how the converter charges the battery...........
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	File0022.jpg
Views:	145
Size:	81.0 KB
ID:	34108  
toastie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 07:39 AM   #14
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
Images: 12
Even though both diagrams are wired the same let us use the upper diagram for purposes of this discussion only because it clearly marks the pos. and neg. terminals.

What I was saying was to remove the battery. To do this you only need to lift the wire off the neg terminal. Now that the battery is out of the circuit and while the trailer is pluged in read the voltage from the positive battery post to the negitive battery cable, while it is off the battery terminal. You should see the same voltage you see when testing across the convertor positive and negitive terminals.

If you do the system is wired correctly. If you do not see the same voltage across these 2 points there are 2 tests to determine which wire is at fault.

Measure the voltage from the positive battery terminal to a good chassis ground. If good the negitive battery cable is not connected to ground or is broken. If you still do not have voltage from the positive cable to a good chassis ground the positive cable is bad or not connected to the convertor positive terminal.

Using the upper diagram you can follow the wireing from the positive terminal of th convertor to the positive battery terminal and the positive side of the distrubution panel. The wire size should be the same at all three of these points. It does not matter how the wireing is routed from point to point, convertor to panel then panel to battery or convertor to battery then battery to panel, as long as the wire is the same size at all three points.

When correctly wired and battery in the circuit you should see convertor voltage measured to ground, chassis or battery ground, at the positive terminal of the convertor, the positive battery terminal, and the positive side of the distrubuiton panel when the trailer is plugged in. When the trailer is not plugged in these voltages will drop to the battery voltage.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 05:41 PM   #15
Rivet Master
 
toastie's Avatar
 
1955 22' Safari
Currently Looking...
Great Lake State , .
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE
You have what is called a dead battery. Not sure why if it is only a year old but if the convertor is putting out 16 volts I suspect it cooked the battery. The convertor should only put out about 14.7 max. Look in the battery and check the water level I suppect you will not see much.

If the battery is low and has boiled out the wtaer do not put a new battery on that convertor until it is either calibrated or replaced. If you do it will cook that battery also.
I talked to tech support at Progressive Dynamics today makers of my converter and you are right on the numbers, I put a new battery in
my multimeters and took another reading, its reading a consistant 13.55 volts.......
toastie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 05:59 PM   #16
Rivet Master
 
toastie's Avatar
 
1955 22' Safari
Currently Looking...
Great Lake State , .
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,480
[quote=HowieE]
What I was saying was to remove the battery. To do this you only need to lift the wire off the neg terminal. Now that the battery is out of the circuit and while the trailer is pluged in read the voltage from the positive battery post to the negitive battery cable, while it is off the battery terminal. You should see the same voltage you see when testing across the convertor positive and negitive terminals.

quote]

Charged the battery overnight with battery gauge showning fully charged.
With shore power on and toggles to dc distribution panel switched to city power, attached positive cable to battery and with neg. cable off the battery took reading, the reading was "0". Switched toogles to dc distribution panel to battery power, took reading and it was also "0". Took a reading at the converter post and it is reading 13.55 volts.
toastie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2007, 05:27 PM   #17
Rivet Master
 
toastie's Avatar
 
1955 22' Safari
Currently Looking...
Great Lake State , .
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE
If you are saying the convertor is putting out 16+ volts but the battery is only 11 volts when first checked something is wrong in the wireing from the convertor to the battery. You should see the same voltage at both ends of the wire from the convertor to the battery, convertor output voltage.

Solve this problem first,and get a charge on the battery,then lets look at the jack.

I still question the high convertor output voltage having had a runaway convertor cook my batteries but that a secondary question at the moment.
I talked to a engr. at progressive dynamice inc. makers of the intelipower
here in Michigan, I ask him if it would be alright to run another set of wires from the converter to the battery, he said that it would be ok, tryed it, and eveything seems to be workng ok, this is the first I heard anything coming from the converter, the little fan is working and the converter feels warm like its working, volt reading from the converter is 14.3v and the battery is reading the same, battery showing full charge. The tongue jack works when connected to shore power and when disconnect from shore power, ran the wire from tongue jack to where the bargman connects to trailer.
toastie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2007, 07:37 PM   #18
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
Images: 12
Glad to see it all worked out. The sounds from the convertor fan indicate the convertor never had the battery load connected to it. May have been a broken wire or an absence of a wire altogeather. I would suggest you try and determine which. If it was a broken wire you want to make sure that it is removed or caped off so it can not short to the body in the future

Have fun camping
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Security lock for the tongue? Diana Langley Hitches, Couplers & Balls 11 11-19-2002 11:01 AM
Tongue Tied CHRIS CANNON Jacks, Stabilizers, Lifting and Leveling 0 09-30-2002 08:44 PM
Electr. Tongue Jack Wiring?? roessler Jacks, Stabilizers, Lifting and Leveling 12 07-17-2002 11:00 AM
Hello from new Forumee - and a question about front shocks on my 1989 345LE williamhenshall Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 12 04-14-2002 10:13 AM
Electrical System Question ViewRVs Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 2 03-16-2002 07:39 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.