Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-01-2019, 09:20 AM   #1
4 Rivet Member
 
Atomic_13's Avatar
 
1968 24' Tradewind
1968 26' Overlander
Kansas City , Kansas
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 296
Contemporary electrical for Atomicís Ď68 Tradewind

Iím in the planning phase for how energy will be stored and distributed in my Ď68 Tradewind. The renovation is nearly completed with exception of the soft goods (curtains/upholstery).

Click image for larger version

Name:	Adjustments.JPG
Views:	18
Size:	525.2 KB
ID:	355377

Click image for larger version

Name:	Adjustments.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	325.4 KB
ID:	355378

Given the complexity of modern energy storage systems I will undoubtedly have a series of questions so Iím creating this specific thread as an offshoot to my main renovation thread (linked below).

Given the primary camping locations will be off grid, Iíve decided to install 400Ah of LiFePO4 (BattleBorn). A rough estimate of our energy needs suggest an anticipated use up to 2000 watts per day (including a 12VDC isotherm refrigerator but excluding the power needed to run the AC).

In addition to the above batteries, the following Victron products have been purchased:
- Multiplus 12v/3000w/120A inverter/charger
- 150/35 MPPT solar charge controller (shooting for a 400-500W PV array)
- BMV 712 battery monitor/shunt (with battery temperature probe)
- CCGX system display that will connect to the above items via coms cables (ve.direct. ve.bus)
- Various cables, lugs, kill switches, and fuses

Itís a 30A AC system protected with a Progressive Dynamics in-line EMS/surge protector. I plan to install a manual transfer switch with the following options:
- Shore power only (bypassing the inverter)
- Generator supplemented by inverter/battery
- 12VDC battery only (with or without inverted AC)

Main renovation thread: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f116...on-134984.html
__________________

__________________
Brian's AS renovation:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f11...on-134984.html
Tow vehicle: 2019 F250 Lariat 6.7L CC SRW
Atomic_13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2019, 10:43 AM   #2
4 Rivet Member
 
57Vintage's Avatar

 
1958 26' Overlander
Battle Ground , Washington
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 303
Images: 21
I'm running almost the same equipment as you, except I have 2 160aH LiFo with 4 100 watt panels. That has been more than sufficient for 3 or 4 days. We haven't tried longer periods yet.

I ran a test this fall on my Isotherm conversion which may interest you. Here are the results. More detail is on page 4 of our thread.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Frig Electrical Usage.png
Views:	13
Size:	23.5 KB
ID:	355427
__________________

__________________
Harold & Rebecca

Our thread:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f97...er-172124.html
57Vintage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 12:55 AM   #3
4 Rivet Member
 
Atomic_13's Avatar
 
1968 24' Tradewind
1968 26' Overlander
Kansas City , Kansas
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 296
Contemporary electrical for Atomicís Ď68 Tradewind

Thanks for the beta, Harold/Rebecca. I appreciate it.

Iíve taken a stab at creating a wiring diagram for the electrical system in my Tradewind. This is my first attempt at anything this electrically complex (that is, this needs vetted prior to use).

Please note that all connecting cables (105C flexible welding wire) will terminate with hydraulically crimped lugs covered with heat shrink, will be fused according to wire size, and torqued to specification.

Iíd really appreciate some feedback on what Iím proposing. Do you see any concerns or do you have any suggested modifications? I still need to improve the wire routing but figured Iíd identify critical issues first.

Click image for larger version

Name:	<a title=1968 TRADEWIND ELECTRICAL.jpg Views: 10 Size: 235.2 KB ID: 356648" style="margin: 2px" />
__________________
Brian's AS renovation:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f11...on-134984.html
Tow vehicle: 2019 F250 Lariat 6.7L CC SRW
Atomic_13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 08:38 AM   #4
Half a Rivet Short
 
2017 30' Classic
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 8,425
Hi

50AH of usage at 12V would be about 700WH. That *should* be enough to cover the basics. A lot depends on which Isotherm you have. An "average" drain of <2A *should* cover it. If you have LED lights, they aren't going to be a major impact.

400AH of battery at 12V is 4,800 WH. If you *do* expect a 2,000 WH drain per day, they will last for just a bit over 2 days. It will be hard to make up that amount of drain with the sort of solar you would mate up with a 35A MPPT controller.

Indeed with 400AH of BB's and 4 panels on the roof, we can go for quite a while ( > a week) with a normal drain in the 50 to 100AH / day range.

Bob
uncle_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 10:19 AM   #5
4 Rivet Member
 
57Vintage's Avatar

 
1958 26' Overlander
Battle Ground , Washington
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 303
Images: 21
Just a couple thoughts on the combinations off your 12V distribution panel: Just my thought process, not implying yours is wrong.

Combining tank sensors/detectors/camera; assuming the camera is only wanted while driving, why not power it off your TV power to the trailer with an in line fuse, so its not a 'phantom' load while camping.

AC Thermostat/Dickenson; since the two aren't used at the same time, why have both powered up. Minor load I know.

Fans; do you really want to lose all fans if there is a circuit problem you can't fix while on the road. Probably over thinking, but know how critical air movement is while camping.

I went to the extreme on the 12V side. Almost all my circuits are not combined, but that comes at a cost and a lot of wire. Left and middle column are 12V, right is 120V off inverter. Shore power only 120V panel is separate.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Electrical Controls.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	225.5 KB
ID:	356655
__________________
Harold & Rebecca

Our thread:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f97...er-172124.html
57Vintage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 04:13 PM   #6
4 Rivet Member
 
Atomic_13's Avatar
 
1968 24' Tradewind
1968 26' Overlander
Kansas City , Kansas
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 296
Contemporary electrical for Atomicís Ď68 Tradewind

Thanks for the use data/perspective Bob. We are a family of backpackers so I am unsure how much energy we are likely to use. While I know that we ďcouldĒ use very little, I have two teenage daughters that like their phones and other amenities so weíll see how it goes. Iíve built the trailer with as many energy saving appliances as possible (e.g. LED lights, non-forced air furnace, etc) Despite that, I estimated that for the four of us, we may use up to 1000W beyond what the DC refrigerator uses (hopefully this is an overestimate). Given 4 to 5 people may be camping in the trailer, I purchased a larger refrigerator (Isotherm Cruise 200, 5+2 ft2) which is reported to use 7A when the compressor is running but 3.5A on average (so ~1000W per day). I plan to add Isothermís smart energy control module to the fridge which reportedly reduces the energy demands by up to half (Iíll be happy if I drop it by 25% down to 750W/day).

Regarding the solar charge controller being limited to 35A, Iím pretty limited on the roof space on this old (narrow body) Tradewind. As a result I opted to buy a smaller and less expensive controller. The maximum amount of solar I could likely squeeze on the roof is 450-500 Watts. If I find this unable to keep up with our energy needs, I plan to add some additional solar panels on my truck cap roof. Iím curious if you can use two solar charge controllers (one in the airstream and one in the truck) and back feed both to the positive buss bar? I suspect this may be a problem (due to competing charge profiles) but I donít know for sure. I might end up needing a larger solar charge controller after allÖ

57Vintage - thanks for the feedback on the 12VDC circuits. I had approached it differently by placing similar items on each circuit (for example lights on the yellow circuit, etc). Good suggestion to consider redundancy. Given Iíve already ran/connected the circuits Iíll need to stick with the plan. You mention concern about phantom loadsÖ Iíll be curious if items that have inline switches (like by Dickenson stove) drawl current while not turned on. This is definitely likely on complex electronics (like my inverter/charger) but I donít know about simple computer fans (0.17A), etc like the Dickenson hasÖ

I spent some more time last evening fleshing out the wiring diagram. This generated three specific questions (see the yellow sticky notes on the updated diagram posted below):

1. Iíve read that having multiple points on the chassis for grounding is a problem. Does this issue apply if you use a separate AC ground from the DC ground? Whatís this issue anyway?
2. On the AC outputs of the inverter, AC output 1 can hybridize my 30A of shore power plus 25 additional amps from the battery totaling to a potential of 55 amps out. As a result, Iím assuming I need to install an AC breaker near the inverter AC output since the 6/2 wire will travel ~22í to reach an AC sub panel? (i.e. itís not appropriate to simply add the breaker in the sub panel at the end of the runÖ?) The same goes for AC2 out? (which is only energized when connected to shore/gen power and limited to a non-hybridized 30A). I plan to use a 70A breaker for AC1 (6AWG wire) and a 30A breaker for AC2 (10AWG wire). Sound good?
3. Iíve been scratching my head on how to energize sub-panel 2, when option 2 on the manual transfer switch is selected (which bypasses the inverter all together). Any suggestions?

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_7466.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	328.1 KB
ID:	356670
__________________
Brian's AS renovation:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f11...on-134984.html
Tow vehicle: 2019 F250 Lariat 6.7L CC SRW
Atomic_13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 05:38 PM   #7
Half a Rivet Short
 
2017 30' Classic
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 8,425
Hi

Ok, unless you have a very unusual crew, they sleep part of the 24 hour day and you typically are out and about for another part of the day. Eight hours in the trailer / not sleeping is about the max unless you are rained (or snowed) in.

1,000WH over 8 hours comes to 125W per hour or right at 10A. A typical tablet or phone will be about 1/10 of that. A full up loaded laptop doing video editing 100% of the time *might* hit 80% of that power level.

Bob
uncle_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2019, 06:01 PM   #8
4 Rivet Member
 
Atomic_13's Avatar
 
1968 24' Tradewind
1968 26' Overlander
Kansas City , Kansas
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 296
Updated diagram!

Following some feedback from a few experts, I've updated the diagram to simplify it a bit. Also, it was noted that my prior diagram didn't reflect the solar panels being fused (now added). Additionally, the on/off switch was swapped with the 50A DC breaker on the solar line to the battery.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 1968 Tradewind Electrical.pdf (130.4 KB, 5 views)
__________________
Brian's AS renovation:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f11...on-134984.html
Tow vehicle: 2019 F250 Lariat 6.7L CC SRW
Atomic_13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2019, 08:01 AM   #9
4 Rivet Member
 
Atomic_13's Avatar
 
1968 24' Tradewind
1968 26' Overlander
Kansas City , Kansas
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 296
I made some progress on the electrical system this weekend. The main tasks were to fabricate the positive and negative buss bars and cut and crimp the large gauge wires. Once I had the layout and wire routes figured out, I made and carpeted three modular pieces for mounting the electrical components.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_7498.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	398.1 KB
ID:	357140

Four LiFePO4 batteries will sit on the right platform. I have space reserved for two more batteries to the right of the inverter if needed. The solar charge controller will be located in the bottom left of the above picture (mounted to the compartment wall) and the 12V distribution panel will be in the next bay over, which is easier to access.

As expected, executing the above plan yielded some changes. Iíll post a revised wiring diagram soon.
__________________
Brian's AS renovation:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f11...on-134984.html
Tow vehicle: 2019 F250 Lariat 6.7L CC SRW
Atomic_13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2019, 03:12 PM   #10
4 Rivet Member
 
Atomic_13's Avatar
 
1968 24' Tradewind
1968 26' Overlander
Kansas City , Kansas
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 296
Here is the updated wiring diagram:

Click image for larger version

Name:	<a title=1968 TRADEWIND ELECTRICAL.jpg Views: 3 Size: 230.6 KB ID: 357186" style="margin: 2px" />
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 1968 Tradewind Electrical.pdf (184.6 KB, 1 views)
__________________

__________________
Brian's AS renovation:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f11...on-134984.html
Tow vehicle: 2019 F250 Lariat 6.7L CC SRW
Atomic_13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Atomic's 1968 Tradewind Twin Renovation Atomic_13 1959-69 Tradewind 396 Yesterday 11:09 PM
MSD Atomic aftermarket injection gets CA Approval!!! Keyair Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 4 09-10-2017 07:42 PM
1968 Renovation Almost Complete "Atomic Overlander" hartley1212 General Interior Topics 4 10-11-2011 11:35 AM
Atomic Pod :: 2008 Airstream International Signature Series CCD bolerama Airstream Registry Discussions 0 08-19-2011 09:30 AM
Atomic Airstream Forrest Airstream History 34 01-26-2009 08:20 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.