Connect Hybrid Inverter to all AC distribution?

[wmcneil]

I am looking into upgrading my electric on my 2011 FC 25' FB. It currently has the stock Plax 7355 converter. I am looking at either the Victron or Magnum charger/hybrid inverter, 3000W. My thought is to connect the AC output of the inverter to all of the downstream AC branch circuits in the trailer. This would allow all of the appliances to be run with the combination of a 2000w generator/inverter (Honda) and the battery power from the hybrid inverter. This would also allow any appliance other than the air conditioner to be run from just the hybrid inverter (The water heater is propane only). The idea here is to start out without investing in new batteries and solar, but still be able to run any appliance (albeit briefly in some cases) other than the air conditioning on just the batteries.

To avoid draining the batteries due to idle current, there would need to be a manual cutoff for the inverter DC input section.

Any feedback on this approach is most welcome.

[lsbrodsky]

That is essentially what I just did. The Victron Multi 12/3000 remote has a 3 position switch: Charger Only, Off, Inverter. In the OFF position everything is Off and no shore power is passed through. In the Charger only position, Shore power is passed through, but the inverter section is switched off with no battery drain other than normal DC loads. In the Inverter position all AC loads are energized either by shore power or the inverter; this means the refrigerator if you forgot to put it on propane, the lights on the TVs and microwave, and anything else AC. The color control may have more capabilities, I do not know.
Larry

[wmcneil]

Originally Posted by lsbrodsky

That is essentially what I just did....
Larry

Larry thanks for the info. Were you able to re-use the AC or DC distribution panels from the 7355 enclosure? (I have not looked in much detail at the mechanical side of the upgrade yet.)

Bill

[lsbrodsky]

I reused both distribution panels but I needed to install a new AC breaker for the input to the inverter charger from shorepower because of the configuration of the busbar in the existing panel. The inverter output goes to the AC distribution panel I kept.
Larry

[lewster]

You can re-use the 120VAC breaker panel but you will then require a new main breaker box for your shore cord entry into the system and a 30 amp breaker for the inverter 120VAC input. This would work for a trailer with 30 amp service.

For 50 amp service, you would need a new 50 amp main panel and would need to be able to energize just those circuits on a 50 amp split bus that you want without energizing the entire panel, as the output from an inverter/charger like a Magnum MS2812 has dual 30 amp outputs while the MSH3012-M has a single 60 amp output.

In addition, be aware that Victron rates their inverters at VA instead of watts, so the 12/3000-100 is a 12 VDC unit rated at 3000VA (or 2400 watts) with a 100 amp charger section.

Magnum rates their units in continual watt output, so an MSH3012-M is s 3000 watt inverter section at 12 VDC operation.


Lew Farber

[SilverSinbad]

Lew,
That a difficult/expensive job?

[lewster]

Originally Posted by SilverSinbad

Lew,
That a difficult/expensive job?

It depends!

When I re-wire the AC side of a trailer, I install a new dual bus breaker box from Progressive Dynamics, along with their matching DC fuse block.. I remove the existing converter and the 120VAC breaker panel, along with the existing DC fuse block too.

This arrangement gives me a neat, compact, all in one 120VAC control center with a matching Dc fuse block that utilizes tha same space as the old arrangement. It does require completely removing all 120VAC and 12VDC wiring to be moved into the new housings. Difficult?....not for the experienced. Expensive?........depends on what your definition is........

They look like this when complete

[Troutboy]

Based on Lewster reccomendation, this is what I am doing and I have the parts already.

Lewster, have you ever installed the AC panel horizontal, or must it be vertical?


Thx
Troutboy

[lewster]

Originally Posted by Troutboy

Based on Lewster reccomendation, this is what I am doing and I have the parts already.

Lewster, have you ever installed the AC panel horizontal, or must it be vertical?


Thx
Troutboy

Any orientation you like. I just find it easier to read and use when vertical as the door will either have too be held open (in the up position) if horizontal upright, or will flop down if horizontal (upside down).

The wires and breakers really don't care which orientation you give them ( They told me so when we had a little talk the first time I used one of these panel boards)

[lsbrodsky]

I just started thinking about the Victron ratings; the spec sheet gives both 3000 VA and 2400w. That is certainly large enough for any normal travel trailer. But those ratings infer a power factor 0.8 and, while it has been a long time since I messed with that stuff, that is pretty inductive. I cannot think of loads on a trailer that fit that parameter. I would expect trailer loads to have a power factor of 0.9 or greater, except for the AC compressor.
Just a detail. It does not change how I will use my inverter/charger.
Larry

[wmcneil]

Larry and Lew, thanks for the feedback on distribution panel re-use. Lew, the panels you posted the picture of look great, but time saved by re-use is key to me right now, so I am looking to go that route. Thanks also for the pointer about the Multiplus VA spec rating. I think the 12/3000/120 is still a good choice for my application, but VA vs. Watts is a detail easily missed for sure.

[grwalk]

Lew
What model do you use?

[lewster]

Originally Posted by grwalk

Lew
What model do you use?

30 or 50 amp service?

[BAB]

I can vigorously attest to the wonderment of having installed the Magnum MSH3012 in my '15 Classic almost 2 years ago. It was a project installing a new panel, running cables and wires....along with 6V Lifeline AGMs -- but with the 600W of solar, we have really enjoyed the FREEDOM from a power pedestal. There is something cool about pulling over for lunch when it's 95 degrees outside and turning on SilverLeaf's air conditioning. No external cabling, no generator -- just batteries. Next will be a changeover to Lithiums -- once the Lifeline's go toes up. (Oh, and an ongoing thanks to Lewster for the encouragement and help!)

[Troutboy]

BAB. How many amp hours is your battery bank?

[ijustlee]

This seems like the ultimate wiring set up to me! You should be able run the Air Conditioner with a 2000 watt generator and still be charging the batteries. With some solar input you'd be golden for boondocking?

[BAB]

I used 4 Lifeline 6V GPL4CT batteries @220ah each. That equates to 880ah total. Figure around $1,500 worth of batteries. BUT, very nice to never run out of 12V power. These are heavy and I installed them as close to the axles as possible. Did cut a bit of tongue weight by pulling out the stock 12V batteries from the fwd battery compartment. I use that space for storing chocks. The star of the install is the Magnum MSH3012. VERY sophisticated piece of equipment, flawless operation. If I'm in a park that's undervaluing, the Magnum will convert some of my 12V DC to AC voltage to bring it up to 120V. No worries about brownouts!

[BAB]

I HATE spellcheck. I typed in UNDER-VOLTING and it corrected it to UNDERVALUING. I checked into a campground a couple of summers ago in 105 degree heat, and the owner asked me to NOT turn on my A/C as they were down to around 105V. Really? I'm not supposed to use YOUR electricity? Won't stay there again!

[wmcneil]

Originally Posted by lsbrodsky

I reused both distribution panels but I needed to install a new AC breaker....
Larry

Larry,
For the battery side wiring, what did you change? (battery disconnect relay, battery cables themselves, lp detector, tongue jack, brake breakaway switch, charge line to TV 7-wire connector)

Bill

[Troutboy]

Bill, the diagram I sent you is one way to wire the system. Larry also provided great direction and advice. He wired his a different way which also works and doesn't require any tuning of a D.C.-D.C. Converter.

Just wanted to give you that so you don't mix info that I provide and Larry provides. You have to pick one way or the other.

The logical question is which is better. I don't know the answer and they both work. AM Solar uses both ways.
Thx