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08-15-2014, 08:08 PM
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#1
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3 Rivet Member
2014 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Glen Arbor
, Michigan
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 171
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Charging with two batteries
I have a 2014 EB 25 with dual batteries. I have a Batter Tender battery charger for two batteries. Should I hook up the charger to both batteries? Or, just one? Or should I disconnect one of the batteries and then connect it to both? Or should I just plug the trailer into my 110 V wall outlet and assume its all good. I am a bit embarrassed that I don't know the answer to this question.
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08-15-2014, 08:50 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2002 30' Classic S/O
Fleming Island
, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,667
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Did you get a manual?
If not you can download one from airstream.com. It should explain the intricacies of the 12V DC and 110 V AC electrical systems. But if your EB is like very other trailer I'm aware of, it has a charger (actually called a converter) built in. Just plug the trailer in and the converter will charge the batteries.
Do you have a 30A 110V outlet? If not you will need an adapter to hook up to a standard 15A household outlet. Be aware you can charge your batteries and maybe run a microwave, but you will not be able to use tha air conditioner unless you have 30A service.
__________________
“You cannot reason someone out of a position they have not been reasoned into"
Al, K5TAN and Missy, N4RGO WBCCI 1322
2002 Classic 30 Slideout -S/OS #004
2013 Dodge 2500 Laramie 4x4 Megacab Cummins
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08-15-2014, 10:16 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
Port Orchard
, Washington
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanna EB
I have a 2014 EB 25 with dual batteries. I have a Batter Tender battery charger for two batteries. Should I hook up the charger to both batteries? Or, just one? Or should I disconnect one of the batteries and then connect it to both? Or should I just plug the trailer into my 110 V wall outlet and assume its all good. I am a bit embarrassed that I don't know the answer to this question.
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Unless Airstream has decided to upgrade the convertor they put in new Airstreams, do not just plug it in to AC and leave it that way with everything in the trailer turned off for more than a couple days. The stock converters do not have a maintenance mode built in. It will overcharge and ruin both batteries in no time at all. I and many others have replaced the stock converter with one that will maintain the batteries without overcharging. A little searching will find many threads on the subject. If you want to use your trickle charger, I would recommend disconnecting the positive cables (with the converter off) from the batteries and hook one side of the trickle charger to each battery. There are probably others with different ideas.
Ken
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08-17-2014, 07:27 PM
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#4
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3 Rivet Member
2014 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Glen Arbor
, Michigan
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 171
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very helpful Thank you.
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08-17-2014, 10:39 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2002 30' Classic S/O
Fleming Island
, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,667
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The safer thing to do is disconnect the negative side. If the negative side is left connected, the slip of a wrench on the positive terminal can short out the battery and start a fire, or cause the battery to explode. The negative battery cable should always be first off and last on.
Al
__________________
“You cannot reason someone out of a position they have not been reasoned into"
Al, K5TAN and Missy, N4RGO WBCCI 1322
2002 Classic 30 Slideout -S/OS #004
2013 Dodge 2500 Laramie 4x4 Megacab Cummins
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08-18-2014, 02:29 PM
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#6
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Wheels Itch)(Must Travel
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
- east coastal area -
, Florida
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 683
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Sort of an add-on questions.
I like to leave my AS plugged into the house current when not traveling.
That way I can use the lights and fans dehumidifier etc. if needed while not using the batteries.
After making sure the batteries are charged, I use a battery disconnect at one terminal to make sure they are off the current.
Is this necessary?
Would the constant house current damage the batteries if they were left connected?
Seems like this would just be like staying at a camp ground hooked up for a wek or so.
Thanks guys
__________________
az-streamer
Jon & Deb
Phoebe & Ellis - The Airstreaming Mini-Schauzers
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[CENTER][I]
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08-18-2014, 07:30 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
Port Orchard
, Washington
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az-streamer
Sort of an add-on questions.
I like to leave my AS plugged into the house current when not traveling.
That way I can use the lights and fans dehumidifier etc. if needed while not using the batteries.
After making sure the batteries are charged, I use a battery disconnect at one terminal to make sure they are off the current.
Is this necessary?
Would the constant house current damage the batteries if they were left connected?
Seems like this would just be like staying at a camp ground hooked up for a wek or so.
Thanks guys
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Actually this depends on the design of your converter. As I posted earlier in this thread, unless Airstream has upgraded the quality of the converter in new trailers, leaving the trailer plugged in for prolonged periods, with little or no load, will overcharge the batteries. This will cause their early failure. Leaving your trailer plugged in for a week or two while camping is not the same, because there will be various loads being switched on and off and this will help limit the charging current. I upgraded my converter when the trailer was a year old just to solve this problem. Before the upgrade, I had to remove the batteries and charge them with a trickle charger. With my new converter, I can leave the trailer plugged in all winter. If you are interested, there are several threads on upgrading to more sophisticated converters.
Ken
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08-19-2014, 07:09 PM
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#8
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Wheels Itch)(Must Travel
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
- east coastal area -
, Florida
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 683
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I guess the best way is to make sure the batteries are fully charged at the end of a trip, disconnect them while at home, thenm re-connect test and charge as needed before the next journey.
__________________
az-streamer
Jon & Deb
Phoebe & Ellis - The Airstreaming Mini-Schauzers
* * * * * * *
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08-19-2014, 08:28 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
Port Orchard
, Washington
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az-streamer
I guess the best way is to make sure the batteries are fully charged at the end of a trip, disconnect them while at home, them re-connect test and charge as needed before the next journey.
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This will only work if you use the trailer often enough. (every couple weeks) Batteries will, even without any connections, discharge over time. If they discharge totally and sit for awhile, they will probably be ruined and unable to accept a charge.
There is no easy way, You must either keep a trickle charger on them continually, put them on a regular charger periodically, or upgrade your converter and leave the trailer plugged into shore power.
Ken
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08-20-2014, 01:14 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
2005 19' Safari
GLENDALE
, AZ
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,453
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One more option -- a Marine Battery Isolator Switch:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...ch-109379.html
For a PDF of these instructions that includes photos of the installation, please send me a PM (private message).
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08-20-2014, 01:30 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
2014 25' Flying Cloud
Cuddebackville
, New York
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,333
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The AS manual days if you put it in storage mode while hooked to shore power, it won't charge the batteries. So you could charge, then go to storage mode just to run stuff.
Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
__________________
2014 25' Flying Cloud Rear Twin
2019 Ford Expedition Platinum
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08-20-2014, 01:38 PM
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#12
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4 Rivet Member
2015 30' Classic
Calgary
, Alberta
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag&Au
Unless Airstream has decided to upgrade the convertor they put in new Airstreams, do not just plug it in to AC and leave it that way with everything in the trailer turned off for more than a couple days. The stock converters do not have a maintenance mode built in. It will overcharge and ruin both batteries in no time at all. I and many others have replaced the stock converter with one that will maintain the batteries without overcharging. A little searching will find many threads on the subject. If you want to use your trickle charger, I would recommend disconnecting the positive cables (with the converter off) from the batteries and hook one side of the trickle charger to each battery. There are probably others with different ideas.
Ken
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Wouldn't a 'maintenance mode' be considered a fairly rudimentary function of a charge/converter? That blows my mind that it wouldn't automatically do this.
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08-20-2014, 02:50 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
2007 23' Safari SE
2016 23' International
Fernandina Beach
, Florida
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag&Au
Unless Airstream has decided to upgrade the convertor they put in new Airstreams, do not just plug it in to AC and leave it that way with everything in the trailer turned off for more than a couple days. The stock converters do not have a maintenance mode built in. It will overcharge and ruin both batteries in no time at all. I and many others have replaced the stock converter with one that will maintain the batteries without overcharging. A little searching will find many threads on the subject. If you want to use your trickle charger, I would recommend disconnecting the positive cables (with the converter off) from the batteries and hook one side of the trickle charger to each battery. There are probably others with different ideas.
Ken
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The manual would seem to indicate otherwise... I have a 2007 Safari. The manual indicates: Whenever possible use the automatic built in charge of the converter system for charging. The charging circuit automatically controls the current, reducing it as the batteries increases in charge.
It also indicates that placing the disconnect switch in Store mode will prevent charging, but I also know that when I plug my trailer into shore power, the little red indicator lamp remains lit regardless of which way I toggle the disconnect switch which would indicate to me that it is in "use" mode. Can anybody shed some light on this?
At any rate, I am not sure the stock controller is all that dumb, and I know folks with glassmat batteries (solar upgrades) often replace the controller for a more sophisticated one because of the special requirements of those types of batteries...
But it leaves me wondering, which is worse, leaving the unit in store mode and having the batteries run down or leaving it in use mode with it plugged in to shore power? I tend to favor the latter...
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08-20-2014, 03:21 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
2012 23' FB International
Woodstock
, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,423
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Check the voltage at the battery terminals after the unit has been plugged in for a day or two without any draw in the unit (no lights, fans, fridge etc. ) If the battery voltage is over 14 volts you will likely boil off the water in the battery over time. Bulk charging should be in the 14 -14.5 volt range to provide enough amps to charge in a reasonable time, but as the battery reaches full charge ( 13.8 Volts) the charger should drop back to 'float' mode to maintain a charge of 13.5 - 13.8 volts, That's what the fancy new chargers do and also the Solar Panel charge controllers
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08-20-2014, 07:48 PM
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#15
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Wheels Itch)(Must Travel
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
- east coastal area -
, Florida
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 683
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lik tomzstream mentioneed, the red light on my AS also stays lit if i have it hooked up to shore power. i check the indicator panel often and it shows 13.5 ish when the shore power is running.
some of the web discussions offer differin g opinions on trickle chargers. some say that they will not cut off and will fry the batteries. other say they work fine. i'm SO confused.
it would sure be nice if the AS's really did have a system that would work to keep the batteries topped off with shore power without over charging.
i might still invest in a good trickle chargwer and use it while keeping an eye on the charge.
__________________
az-streamer
Jon & Deb
Phoebe & Ellis - The Airstreaming Mini-Schauzers
* * * * * * *
[CENTER][I]
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08-21-2014, 08:14 AM
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#16
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Rivet Master
2012 23' FB International
Woodstock
, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,423
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I pulled this off the web: surprisingly there is a big variation in info out there.
"All Lead acid batteries (Gel, AGM, Flooded, Drycell, etc) are made up of a series of 2.2 volt cells that are bridged together in series to reach their final desired voltage. For instance, a 6 volt battery will have 3 cells (3 x2.2= 6.6 volts), a 12 volt battery will have 6 cells (6 x2.2=13.2 volts) and so on.That 2.2 volts is the fully charged, straight off the charger number. The actual resting voltage, or the voltage a battery will settle at 12-24 hours after being removed from the charger, is closer to 2.1 volts per cell, or about 6.4 volts for a 6v battery, and 12.7 volts for a 12v battery. These numbers assume 100% healthy cells, and may vary a bit lower for older batteries."
If you are going to purchase a Trickle charger to maintain the batteries when not in use, that probably means a "Float Charger". For about $50 you can buy a number of automatic chargers that apply 14+ volts to get the battery up to full charge then drop back to about 13-13.5 volts ("float charge" to hold it. That voltage will not overcharge a battery and cause water loss. My solar panel controller settles down to 13.4 volts once the battery is fully charged. It runs as high as 14.5 volts in full sun if the battery is somewhat discharged.
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08-21-2014, 11:10 AM
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#17
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4 Rivet Member
2014 28' International
Blacksburg
, Virginia
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 308
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13.2
Thanks JCWDCW, that is exactly the information I was wondering about and looking for.
I Have been watching my Battery tender jr and it seems to charge my motorcycle up to about 13.2/ 13.3 and then settles at 13.20, very little change. It does the same thing when connected to my truck that has dual batteries. Seems to be consistent. so I had a second one (Tender Jr.) I had received as a gift, and wanted to see if it would go up to 13.5 volts.
won't do it. Checked it on car battery, Truck batteries, Airstream Marine batteries, Motorcycle, the Battery tender jr goes up to 13.3 and drifts back to 13.19 - 13.21volts. (checked with three meters to make sure)
I was expecting 13.5 but they seem to pull up at 13.31 volts, here in the heat of summer. I will check when it is cold this winter and see what they do. I don't then they are temperature compensated.
These trickle chargers are good in the winter. Motorcycle battery is three years old and strong as a horse. Helps that Jeep start at -2 degrees F.
Must be doing something right
Thanks !
__________________
Ra & Chelle
For my next trick, I will use my new AS & Dodge Ram CTD to make this pile of money disappear.
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08-22-2014, 10:59 AM
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#18
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3 Rivet Member
2014 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Glen Arbor
, Michigan
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 171
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Thanks
So I am wondering how a single charger would behave when connect to one battery
when that one battery is then connected in series like they are in an AS.
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08-22-2014, 11:08 AM
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#19
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanna EB
Thanks
So I am wondering how a single charger would behave when connect to one battery
when that one battery is then connected in series like they are in an AS.
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First, they are hooked up in parallel, not series, unless you have 2 6V batteries. To answer your question, the leads should be hooked to the positive of one battery and negative of the other. That is the only way to get near equal charge across all cells in both batteries. Make an extension if you have to. I take mine out and use 12 AWG jumpers to parallel them in the garage.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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08-22-2014, 12:03 PM
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#20
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3 Rivet Member
2008 20' Safari SE
Charlotte
, North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g
First, they are hooked up in parallel, not series, unless you have 2 6V batteries. To answer your question, the leads should be hooked to the positive of one battery and negative of the other. That is the only way to get near equal charge across all cells in both batteries. Make an extension if you have to. I take mine out and use 12 AWG jumpers to parallel them in the garage.
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Since I had one handy, I've attached (hopefully) a picture of our battery box. The Battery Tender cable is connected to one of the negatives (top left) and the other positive (bottom right).
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