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Old 09-11-2015, 11:27 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubyDog View Post
Truckers are moving to battery based climate systems for overnighting due to restrictions on idling. There is lots of stuff on Google. The norm seems to be 4 Group 31 batteries, a 2000 watt inverter, a 10,000 BTU air conditioner and a diesel fired furnace. All integrated. Systems are designed to run on just battery power for 10 hours. You may want to explore this area. It is their future and should have some interesting applications for us.

I've been setting up systems like this all summer on Airstreams. 400-600 amp/ hour lithium batteries, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverters and of course, solar.

These systems are designed to operate a single roof A/C from a single 2000 watt generator with battery assist, but the systems have sufficient capacity to run a single roof A/C even WITHOUT THE GENERATOR for time periods of 3-5 hours.

Ain't technology wonnerful????


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Old 06-11-2017, 12:59 AM   #30
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Talking How I attached an inverter to my converter, WITHOUT replacing it.

Hello, Sorry to bring this back to life.

BUT....

The op asked a very good question, and though it looks like it was answered, it was not as clear as I feel it could have been. I have a Magnetek 6300 Q series converter. But there is no aux AC in.

So, My goal is:
-AC Power from an 3000w inverter
-Do not try and charge my batteries via the inverter
-Do not Run the fridge from the inverter (Thats what propane is for :P )
-Does give me 12vDC from the batteries for lights and what not.
-Does allow me to use shore power in the same way I do before making any changes.
-ALL OF THIS MUST BE AUTOMATIC, so I dont mess it up.

This configuration when unplugged from shore power puts the inverter as the AC source, disables AC on the Fridge and disconnects the Converter from the AC circuit (preventing it from trying to charge the batteries).

In the attached drawing you will see a SPDT relay at the top and the converter on a Normally Open relay for the converter. This is done with a single 120vAC coil relay. (Search this on ebay or amazon PBC-RE-GP-DPDT-120VAC) I actually used this DPDT relay because it allowed me to switch the converter and the AC source with one high amperage relay. Then I switch the fridge with an 10amp 120vAC relay.

Doing this means I do not need to replace the entire converter. I am basically leaving it intact. This is nice because I want to keep the breakers on the AC side, and fuses on the 12vDC side. I don't want to have to do major surgery. I am kinda broke after buying the trailer lol.

Just to clerify:
DPDT = One relay, that behaves like two switches, Both switches have a Normally open and normally closed positions
SPDT = One relay, that behaves like one switch, that switch has a Normally open and normally closed positions
NO = Normally Open
NC = Normally Closed
AC = Alternating Current NOT Air Conditioning
N = The N in the drawing is Nutral. All relays are AC relays.

BE CAREFULL!!! Make sure your wire / Relays / and all parts are rated for the kind of current you are pulling. My converter is a 30amp and my main breaker is a 30amp, this is why I used a 30amp DPDT relay, my fridge pulls 8amps at 110vAC so I used a 10amp (30amp inrush) to give some wiggle room. All my wire is much heavier than the crappy 18awg wire that I found in this trailer. Try to NEVER make changes before the breaker (AC Source side) if you can avoid it. Keep the breakers or fuses in a safe place to protect you from making mistakes. This DIY project, is not a good first AC project. You have to sleep here, you dont want to die here....

I really hope this drawing helps someone. It would have saved me a lot of time tracing wires in my system. But keep in mind, all RV power systems are different. Ask your RV dealer if your converter supports an AUX AC source. You may have all this work already done for you. DO NOT DO A MESSY JOB, you WILL have to troubleshoot it in the future.
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Old 06-11-2017, 08:03 AM   #31
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that is a good drawing. where do you put all the relays needed to make this work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trunner View Post
Hello, Sorry to bring this back to life.

BUT....

The op asked a very good question, and though it looks like it was answered, it was not as clear as I feel it could have been. I have a Magnetek 6300 Q series converter. But there is no aux AC in.

So, My goal is:
-AC Power from an 3000w inverter
-Do not try and charge my batteries via the inverter
-Do not Run the fridge from the inverter (Thats what propane is for :P )
-Does give me 12vDC from the batteries for lights and what not.
-Does allow me to use shore power in the same way I do before making any changes.
-ALL OF THIS MUST BE AUTOMATIC, so I dont mess it up.

This configuration when unplugged from shore power puts the inverter as the AC source, disables AC on the Fridge and disconnects the Converter from the AC circuit (preventing it from trying to charge the batteries).

In the attached drawing you will see a SPDT relay at the top and the converter on a Normally Open relay for the converter. This is done with a single 120vAC coil relay. (Search this on ebay or amazon PBC-RE-GP-DPDT-120VAC) I actually used this DPDT relay because it allowed me to switch the converter and the AC source with one high amperage relay. Then I switch the fridge with an 10amp 120vAC relay.

Doing this means I do not need to replace the entire converter. I am basically leaving it intact. This is nice because I want to keep the breakers on the AC side, and fuses on the 12vDC side. I don't want to have to do major surgery. I am kinda broke after buying the trailer lol.

Just to clerify:
DPDT = One relay, that behaves like two switches, Both switches have a Normally open and normally closed positions
SPDT = One relay, that behaves like one switch, that switch has a Normally open and normally closed positions
NO = Normally Open
NC = Normally Closed
AC = Alternating Current NOT Air Conditioning
N = The N in the drawing is Nutral. All relays are AC relays.

BE CAREFULL!!! Make sure your wire / Relays / and all parts are rated for the kind of current you are pulling. My converter is a 30amp and my main breaker is a 30amp, this is why I used a 30amp DPDT relay, my fridge pulls 8amps at 110vAC so I used a 10amp (30amp inrush) to give some wiggle room. All my wire is much heavier than the crappy 18awg wire that I found in this trailer. Try to NEVER make changes before the breaker (AC Source side) if you can avoid it. Keep the breakers or fuses in a safe place to protect you from making mistakes. This DIY project, is not a good first AC project. You have to sleep here, you dont want to die here....

I really hope this drawing helps someone. It would have saved me a lot of time tracing wires in my system. But keep in mind, all RV power systems are different. Ask your RV dealer if your converter supports an AUX AC source. You may have all this work already done for you. DO NOT DO A MESSY JOB, you WILL have to troubleshoot it in the future.
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Old 06-26-2017, 03:18 PM   #32
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How are people handling the bonding of neutral to ground? When off grid. the bonding of neutral and ground should be done at trailer. When using shore power, the bonding of neutral and ground is provided by the shore power circuit. You can't have it done in both places. You'll have ground loops and it'll cause your GFCIs to trip. Plus, code says you can only have a single point for bonding neutral to ground. I have this same issue with my portable generator. When running stand-alone, neutral and ground are bonded at generator. When I use to power my house through the breaker panel (with interlock), I remove the bond at generator and float neutral. I use a plug with ground an neutral tied together and plug it into one of the generators outlets when running stand-alone. I unplug when powering house.

How is this issue handled with an inverter/charger installation when you use both shore power and run off-grid?? The inverter is analogous to my generator. Thoughts??
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Old 06-27-2017, 12:05 AM   #33
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In a trailer the neutral and ground are not bonded.
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Old 06-28-2017, 12:42 AM   #34
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Ground and Neutral

Hey, I have confirmed that RV G and N do not get bonded, instead the inverter should provide the bonding. this is done because you would be getting ground faults all the time otherwise.

Hope that helps
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Old 06-28-2017, 12:47 AM   #35
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Carl2591
I am not sure I understand your question, so I hope this is what your asking for: the relays are shown in this drawing as a little box with a coil and switch inside. as an example; the bottom right, with the letters "NO" for normally open. hope that helps. if you need a text explination of this, let me know, I will try and write the whole thing out. have a great day.
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Old 06-28-2017, 04:39 PM   #36
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Just don't bond the neutral and common in a trailer, ever. There is no good reason to do so. Whether you are talking shore, inverter, or gen.
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Old 06-28-2017, 05:44 PM   #37
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Best way to wire inverter/converter/shore power for seamless AC power

You may find this helpful if you are dealing with GFCI issues when running with a generator. Turns out there are some instances where ground-neutral bonding actually makes sense, but you should make sure your circumstances fit the situations described below:
https://www.osha.gov/OshDoc/data_Hur..._generator.pdf
http://noshockzone.org/generator-gro...utral-bonding/
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Old 06-28-2017, 05:46 PM   #38
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I have studied all of that pretty extensively, for every link that calls for bonding I can post one counter.
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Old 06-28-2017, 05:47 PM   #39
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But all in all, the trailer is safer unbonded when running on inverter or generator.
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Old 06-28-2017, 05:51 PM   #40
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I would agree that if you can get a verified high quality ground, that would be safer than bonding.
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