Battle Born LiFePO4 batteries

[Hans627]

Is there a market for used Lifeline AGM 12V batteries? Just curious as to what to do with the batteries I have should I get the Battleborn (or similar) replacement lithium batteries.

[switz]

Depending on their calendar age, you could ask 50% of the original purchase price.

My four Lifeline model 6ct (6Vdc 300 amp-hour batteries at 94 pounds each or 376 pounds total) were just about two years old when I converted to a single 12Vdc 600 amp-hour lithium (weighs 168 pounds) for the Classic. Their custom stainless steel enclosure was scrapped as the lithium is inside under the sofa.

Conversion took the tongue weight from 1,375 pounds to 1,175 pounds.

[lupe]

Hello everyone.

I came across this thread searching google. Although I do not own an Airstream, I do live in an off-grid home that is powered with wind/solar. I had 24 2v lead batteries that had been in service for a little over 10 years. Well beyond the normal expectancy. Last winter, and I live in upstate NY, We found our self's running our generator every day. As we operate our business from home. Which is 2 computers running 8-12 hours a day. Depending on weather of course. My total system is 3,050 watts. To make a long story short we purchased 2 Battle Born Batteries in June. We needed a drop in replacement pronto, so we took the plunge. Battle Born was absolutely great to work with. For a little more clarification. Our house is powered with all DC lighting. Our refrigeration is a DC sundanzer. And our water pump is DC. All 12v. We have even been able to do a lot of cooking using such appliances as an induction cooker and a instant pot within the summer months. And that has worked very well. But not so much on overcast days. Since I put these Battle Born Batteries in service, we have not had to run our generator once. And I also mow my lawn with the Greenworks lifepo4 mower, which has 4 batteries. We do need however to expand our battery storage and plan to purchase another battery soon. All in all I am very happy with these batteries, and would recommend them. My charge controller is a HVM 440 Amp - 10,000 watt diversion Regulator for Wind Turbines & Solar Panels and it has worked very well so far.

[Gsmblue]

I got the Battleborn batteries, Victron battery monitor and the Victron solar charger installed. Wow, what a difference! It all went in under the dinette, with space to spare.

The deepest discharge I made in a week of camping was 45Ah. The 200W of solar was pushing in 1.3kWh a day and topping everything up... So happy with this solution.

My wiring is not the prettiest, but a little better than stock

Anyone thinking about doing such an upgrade, do it. It does take a little thinking and pushed some of my knowledge, but with the help of a good friend we made it!

I did not use the generator all week and now I am thinking about upgrading the inverter, as we actually used it for the first time ever!

Game changer stuff. Should have done it sooner.

[SCOTTinNJ]

Just adding in that I've noticed different functionality between the victron solar controller and victron monitor when using a blue tooth monitor on each. With the solar controller I can get day by day historical data whereas the monitor surprisingly does not provide that.

[battlebornli]

Originally Posted by mikeinca

Hi Sean. I've started following this thread with interest and have a couple of questions. I have a Zamp 200w portable unit. Would I be correct in assuming that the Zamp ZS-15AW controller would be compatible with your Lithium batteries?

Also, we're planning on acquiring a 2018 30' Classic which will accommodate 2 Group 27 batteries in the battery box. It seems that dropping in two 100AH LifePo4 batteries would be an easy and relatively cost effective upgrade and chances are with my Honda generators that might be all we'd need. But what if we someday decided we wanted even more battery capacity? Would it then be appropriate to place additional Lithium batteries in the trailer while keeping the Lithiums located in the box where they are? Or should all the batteries be installed in one place? Or does it matter? I don't want to complicate things up front in terms of additional wiring or installation issues; just dropping in new Lithium batteries is very appealing. But I don't want to paint myself into a corner either. Thanks.

Mike

Mike
Thanks for the questions, sorry for the delay we missed this post.

1. The compatibility for this controller according to the manual is that you would want to use the AGM setting. It has 14.4 and 13.6 voltage settings and no equalize.

2. The next question is a customer choice, I would put the batteries inside if possible, but if you want more storage and use the outside box also that is ok.

We had a customer install his under the bed in a newer airstream, it worked out good for him. You will save money on wiring by keeping them in one place, and also make sure you call us or an install pro to talk wire sizing to make sure your power transfer is ok between the 2 banks if you go the split bank route.

[battlebornli]

Originally Posted by lupe

Hello everyone.

I came across this thread searching google. Although I do not own an Airstream, I do live in an off-grid home that is powered with wind/solar. I had 24 2v lead batteries that had been in service for a little over 10 years. Well beyond the normal expectancy. Last winter, and I live in upstate NY, We found our self's running our generator every day. As we operate our business from home. Which is 2 computers running 8-12 hours a day. Depending on weather of course. My total system is 3,050 watts. To make a long story short we purchased 2 Battle Born Batteries in June. We needed a drop in replacement pronto, so we took the plunge. Battle Born was absolutely great to work with. For a little more clarification. Our house is powered with all DC lighting. Our refrigeration is a DC sundanzer. And our water pump is DC. All 12v. We have even been able to do a lot of cooking using such appliances as an induction cooker and a instant pot within the summer months. And that has worked very well. But not so much on overcast days. Since I put these Battle Born Batteries in service, we have not had to run our generator once. And I also mow my lawn with the Greenworks lifepo4 mower, which has 4 batteries. We do need however to expand our battery storage and plan to purchase another battery soon. All in all I am very happy with these batteries, and would recommend them. My charge controller is a HVM 440 Amp - 10,000 watt diversion Regulator for Wind Turbines & Solar Panels and it has worked very well so far.

Lupe
Thank you for the feedback, let us know if you need more help with your system.

Sean

[battlebornli]

Originally Posted by Gsmblue

I got the Battleborn batteries, Victron battery monitor and the Victron solar charger installed. Wow, what a difference! It all went in under the dinette, with space to spare.

The deepest discharge I made in a week of camping was 45Ah. The 200W of solar was pushing in 1.3kWh a day and topping everything up... So happy with this solution.

My wiring is not the prettiest, but a little better than stock

Anyone thinking about doing such an upgrade, do it. It does take a little thinking and pushed some of my knowledge, but with the help of a good friend we made it!

I did not use the generator all week and now I am thinking about upgrading the inverter, as we actually used it for the first time ever!

Game changer stuff. Should have done it sooner.

Thanks for the feedback. I am curious to know what were the items that challenged you on this install? I think it would be valuable for us to be able to share this with others.

If you are considering an inverter upgrade, please feel free to message me. I spent over 7 years in that industry and am happy to help you know more about what is out there if needed.

[battlebornli]

Originally Posted by SCOTTinNJ

Just adding in that I've noticed different functionality between the victron solar controller and victron monitor when using a blue tooth monitor on each. With the solar controller I can get day by day historical data whereas the monitor surprisingly does not provide that.

Scott,
What are differences that you noticed? Thanks again for all the feedback and input into this thread.

[SCOTTinNJ]

Originally Posted by battlebornli

Scott,
What are differences that you noticed? Thanks again for all the feedback and input into this thread.

Both have history tabs, but they display far different data. Here are the two.

First from the monitor.



And then from the solar controller.



*on my phone so hopefully this works.

[SCOTTinNJ]

Originally Posted by battlebornli

Scott,
What are differences that you noticed? Thanks again for all the feedback and input into this thread.

Sean,

I've been playing around with the charge profiles on the powermax charger/converter. I have it to where the batteries basically hit 14.4 and the drop to between 14 and 14.1. You can see that in the image above for example in the 14 and 15 days ago lines.

Is that ok? Just wondering if sitting at 14.1 for days on end is good.

When I'm without power the solar controller hits 14.4 but then drops to 13.25 or so. That seems better.

I just can't seem to dial the powermax in to do that. But I'll keep trying if I'm running the batteries too high.

Thanks!

[Gsmblue]

Originally Posted by battlebornli

Thanks for the feedback. I am curious to know what were the items that challenged you on this install? I think it would be valuable for us to be able to share this with others.

If you are considering an inverter upgrade, please feel free to message me. I spent over 7 years in that industry and am happy to help you know more about what is out there if needed.

Nothing with the batteries, pulling the couch apart, crimping large cables and dealing with Airstream wiring were all thing I had to learn! The batteries were drop in

The wallet is on Hiatus for a while, needs to replenish

[YippieKiYa]

I'm finding this thread exceptionally informative and fascinating. Thanks for all of the fact- and data-based inputs. There's a couple of threads today that have included solid manufacturer engagement, too. It's been nice to see their supportive involvement.

[mikeinca]

Originally Posted by battlebornli

Mike
Thanks for the questions, sorry for the delay we missed this post.

1. The compatibility for this controller according to the manual is that you would want to use the AGM setting. It has 14.4 and 13.6 voltage settings and no equalize.

2. The next question is a customer choice, I would put the batteries inside if possible, but if you want more storage and use the outside box also that is ok.

We had a customer install his under the bed in a newer airstream, it worked out good for him. You will save money on wiring by keeping them in one place, and also make sure you call us or an install pro to talk wire sizing to make sure your power transfer is ok between the 2 banks if you go the split bank route.

Thanks.

[Hans627]

Originally Posted by camperkev

I just finished the install of one of Battleborn's 100 amp hour batteries. Could not have been easier.

Sean at BB was super helpful and always responded next day to my emails and questions. There was a little hiccup with FedEx delivering to my house and Sean took care of it for me. Great customer service!

A little background. I bought my 1 year used 2015 27FB Twin and the stock flooded batteries were already fried. The previous owner installed the upgraded PD 4655 converter/charger. After confirming with Sean at BB that this worked with their battery BMS, I decided to take the plunge.

I ruled out transitioning to 6v due to the fact that a battery box modification would have made access to my front storage compartment less than ideal. I also store my rig indoors at a facility and I don't have the ability to plug in while in storage. I am not ready to upgrade to solar or a larger inverter. At this point in my life, I am only really able to get out 3-4 days at a time to enjoy camping with my kids and wife. I have a generator. A large outlay of money for the electrical system is not in the cards right now.

I priced out a couple of options for upgrading from flooded to AGM and in the end it would have cost in the neighborhood of $650 all said and done. The BB battery didn't cost much more, and I'm getting more amp hours than I would have with either two group 24 or 27 agm replacements, and I don't have to worry about discharging below 50%.

I've attached 3 pics: the before, the after, and the battery monitor read-out. The only thing I have left to do is install a couple of L-brackets on two sides of the battery on the bottom of the battery box to prevent it from moving around. The battery barely covers a small portion of the stock battery holder threaded rod, so I only have it in there temporarily b/c it's at an angle. Two of the BB batteries would easily fit in my battery box.

I'll give an update after this summer season on how it performs both in and out of storage.

After having your Battleborn battery installed for about six months are you satisfied with installation and performance. Is one battery sufficient?

Thanks!

[SilverHouseDreams]

Originally Posted by SCOTTinNJ

Isn't one of the qualities of lithium that it has a very flat voltage curve? So how discharged does it need to be to force the boost mode?

I'm specifically asking because the Boondocker charger I'm looking at does not have, best I can tell, a way to force boost mode. Without a depleted battery it seems like I'd be charging at 13.6 volts constantly, which is no different than the stock charger at least before the Boondocker floats.

I installed a Battle Born LiPO4 battery in our 22FB last week. I removed two Interstate SRM-24 batteries that together weighed nearly 100lbs from the A-frame, and installed the Battle Born under our front bed in a completely wasted bit of space that couldn't be used foa anything else. We went dry camping over the weekend and just used propane and battery, I am using a cheap and slightly inaccurate monitor to track energy in/out and we used about 620Wh based on that device.

We got home and I was excited too see what rate of charge we would get, however I ran into this exact problem. The voltage wasn't low enough to get my WFCO-8955 to go into bulk charge mode, it would just stay in float and absolutely zero energy was going back into the battery. I ended up futzing around between store/use mode and having my fridge in 12V mode, and the Fantastic Fan on high, and all of the lights on (which being LED don't add up to much) try and get the voltage to drop...and it dropped just enough for it to at least go into one of the other charge modes. However then it was only charging at ~4-7amps into the battery.

So here I am and I have this wonderful battery that I can't actually charge, so being "drop in replacement" isn't entirely accurate. It would be great if the BMS had any remote monitoring ability, especially if it could trigger "charge mode" manually by reducing the output voltage of the pack long enough to trick these converters into bulk charge mode.

It seems that mine was recharging at a rate of about 75Wh per hour, which mean to replenish the 620Wh we took out would take ~9 hours...which is far less than I would have expected with a converter that is rated for 55amps (which is .5C of the battery, which in theory is perfect and should charge in ~2 hours).

I am now having to find a way to actually charge my "drop in replacement" pack. In my case I wanted to shed the weight and get a more reliable battery anyway, I am space/weight constrained on a 22FB and am going to use the original battery location to store my generator (with a slight net weight loss, 29# battery + 46# generator = 75# vs 94# of lead/acid)...but, 1/2 the reason for the LiPO4 battery was to make recharging off a generator more efficient (aka shorter run time), obviously that isn't going to happen via the house WFCO converter. Maybe someone wants to trade the single-stage converter in their larger trailer for my 3-stage, they can keep from boiling their lead acid battery and I can actually get my battery to charge

I share this as a warning to others, that YMMV vary on the results of a "drop in" replacement. Regardless, I will still come out cheaper than i could ever have with Victron or otherwise. I will add a Victron battery monitor to replace my $18 Amazon special when their new one is available with built-in Bluetooth.

[SilverHouseDreams]

I do want to be more clear and concise in this problem, as anyone that has a 3 or 4 stage converter/charger may be in for a huge surprise. In my case I was able to detect the problem, that my battery wasn't charging because the converter stayed in float mode. The problem is actually even worse than that, because the nominal voltage of my battery (even at ~40% state of charge) is higher than that of the "float" on the converter, all of the 12V being consumed is coming from my battery even while I am on shore power.

Two things could have happened, either the 12V load in my trailer would have been enough to eventually drop the voltage enough that the converter would in fact engage absorption or bulk charge mode...or i would have unplugged and headed out to dry camp and had my battery hit 0% state of charge in the middle of the night from the furnace running.

I think that Battle Born is being slightly disingenuous with the claim that these are compatible with "any standard charger, solar or wind charge controller". I just want everyone to actually know what they may be getting themselves into. In my case the 3-stage converter that was included in my Sport is working against me, I wish I had that "horrible" 1-stage converter that they put in the fancy Airstreams

Originally Posted by battlebornli

Scott,
What are differences that you noticed? Thanks again for all the feedback and input into this thread.

I am quoting @battlebornli to hopefully get their feedback on my issues.

[NoResults]

Xipper, if you want I still have the horrible 1 stage charger that I took out of my 2016 FB. Its your if you want. PM me.

Salem not that far away. Dave

[Al and Missy]

Originally Posted by Xipper

I installed a Battle Born LiPO4 battery in our 22FB last week. I removed two Interstate SRM-24 batteries that together weighed nearly 100lbs from the A-frame, and installed the Battle Born under our front bed in a completely wasted bit of space that couldn't be used foa anything else. We went dry camping over the weekend and just used propane and battery, I am using a cheap and slightly inaccurate monitor to track energy in/out and we used about 620Wh based on that device.

We got home and I was excited too see what rate of charge we would get, however I ran into this exact problem. The voltage wasn't low enough to get my WFCO-8955 to go into bulk charge mode, it would just stay in float and absolutely zero energy was going back into the battery. I ended up futzing around between store/use mode and having my fridge in 12V mode, and the Fantastic Fan on high, and all of the lights on (which being LED don't add up to much) try and get the voltage to drop...and it dropped just enough for it to at least go into one of the other charge modes. However then it was only charging at ~4-7amps into the battery.

So here I am and I have this wonderful battery that I can't actually charge, so being "drop in replacement" isn't entirely accurate. It would be great if the BMS had any remote monitoring ability, especially if it could trigger "charge mode" manually by reducing the output voltage of the pack long enough to trick these converters into bulk charge mode.

It seems that mine was recharging at a rate of about 75Wh per hour, which mean to replenish the 620Wh we took out would take ~9 hours...which is far less than I would have expected with a converter that is rated for 55amps (which is .5C of the battery, which in theory is perfect and should charge in ~2 hours).

I am now having to find a way to actually charge my "drop in replacement" pack. In my case I wanted to shed the weight and get a more reliable battery anyway, I am space/weight constrained on a 22FB and am going to use the original battery location to store my generator (with a slight net weight loss, 29# battery + 46# generator = 75# vs 94# of lead/acid)...but, 1/2 the reason for the LiPO4 battery was to make recharging off a generator more efficient (aka shorter run time), obviously that isn't going to happen via the house WFCO converter. Maybe someone wants to trade the single-stage converter in their larger trailer for my 3-stage, they can keep from boiling their lead acid battery and I can actually get my battery to charge

I share this as a warning to others, that YMMV vary on the results of a "drop in" replacement. Regardless, I will still come out cheaper than i could ever have with Victron or otherwise. I will add a Victron battery monitor to replace my $18 Amazon special when their new one is available with built-in Bluetooth.

The PD-series converters with the charge wizard and pendant can be forced into bulk mode with a button push or by cycling the imput power. It's not drop-in, but it could solve your problem.

Al

[SilverHouseDreams]

Originally Posted by NoResults

Xipper, if you want I still have the horrible 1 stage charger that I took out of my 2016 FB. Its your if you want. PM me.

Salem not that far away. Dave

I may take you up on the offer. Did your trailer come with a Parallax 555 or similar? I am researching my options, doesn't seem there is going to be any direct drop-in replacement for the converter in my WFCO 8955 power distribution panel. Seems my options are to make a single stage converter fit (e.g. a Iota DLS-55 with an added toggle switch for 13.6V and 14.4V), or adding a dedicated charger. Progressive Dynamics makes a drop in replacement for my converter (PD-4655).

Originally Posted by Al and Missy

The PD-series converters with the charge wizard and pendant can be forced into bulk mode with a button push or by cycling the imput power. It's not drop-in, but it could solve your problem.

Al

My understanding is that the Charge Wizard will only stay in bulk charge until 90% SOC...which I assume is based on detected nominal voltage of ~12.6V which likely wouldn't restore a Battle Born to 100% charge capacity.

This could all have been solved with a simple change in the Battle Born BMS that would allow remotely triggering "charge mode" by decreasing output voltage slightly. Would also be great if they had included any ability to monitor state of charge, power draw, temperature or any other battery statistics...but I am sure that would all have added cost. Perhaps in the future they will add a model that includes remote telemetry.

I am going to pull my converter today to see if I can find a way of changing the detected voltage by adding some resistance. I've seen discussions of this elsewhere, not even in the context of lithium batteries but to just force faster charge cycles while boon docking.

I also have an email into Battle Born to see if I can get feedback from them on this.