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Old 09-29-2017, 07:45 AM   #155
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Is constant 14.6 good for the battery?
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:17 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by camperkev View Post
I just finished the install of one of Battleborn's 100 amp hour batteries. Could not have been easier.

Sean at BB was super helpful and always responded next day to my emails and questions. There was a little hiccup with FedEx delivering to my house and Sean took care of it for me. Great customer service!

A little background. I bought my 1 year used 2015 27FB Twin and the stock flooded batteries were already fried. The previous owner installed the upgraded PD 4655 converter/charger. After confirming with Sean at BB that this worked with their battery BMS, I decided to take the plunge.

I ruled out transitioning to 6v due to the fact that a battery box modification would have made access to my front storage compartment less than ideal. I also store my rig indoors at a facility and I don't have the ability to plug in while in storage. I am not ready to upgrade to solar or a larger inverter. At this point in my life, I am only really able to get out 3-4 days at a time to enjoy camping with my kids and wife. I have a generator. A large outlay of money for the electrical system is not in the cards right now.

I priced out a couple of options for upgrading from flooded to AGM and in the end it would have cost in the neighborhood of $650 all said and done. The BB battery didn't cost much more, and I'm getting more amp hours than I would have with either two group 24 or 27 agm replacements, and I don't have to worry about discharging below 50%.

I've attached 3 pics: the before, the after, and the battery monitor read-out. The only thing I have left to do is install a couple of L-brackets on two sides of the battery on the bottom of the battery box to prevent it from moving around. The battery barely covers a small portion of the stock battery holder threaded rod, so I only have it in there temporarily b/c it's at an angle. Two of the BB batteries would easily fit in my battery box.

I'll give an update after this summer season on how it performs both in and out of storage.
Just curious how happy you are with the new battery after some use? Also, did you secure the new battery in the compartment? Any updates appreciated.

Thanks!
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Old 10-05-2017, 01:57 PM   #157
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I just got a special box delivered by FedEx, it contains my new PD4655 with lithium support. I am not sure if I will get to install it today or not, but will post a follow up with more details when I do.
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Old 10-05-2017, 02:18 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by SCOTTinNJ View Post
Is constant 14.6 good for the battery?
It shouldn't cause any harm, 14.6V is 3.65V per cell which is considered to be the ideal charging voltage. Apparently these cell chemistry can be charged to 4.2V per cell. This page has a good bit of technical info on it:

https://www.powerstream.com/LLLF.htm

I have a call into Progressive Dynamics to get more info, but I assume that the converter is acting in CC/CV mode when the jumper is set to LI. What that means is that it may be feeding a full 55-amps of current until it approaches target voltage, and then it switches to constant voltage and takes nearly zero current to actually hold the voltage flat at 14.6V as the energy doesn't actually dissipate due to the very low internal discharge in these cells.

There were studies done in ~2013 that looked at this, to an extent. They modeled a few different state-of-charge ranges over 1000 cycles to see how much capacity was lost, but the ranges they tested were somewhat arbitrary. Using only 25-50% or 50-75% showed a ~3% higher capacity retention at 1000-cycles vs 75-100% SOC. So if you are always on shore power and never actually draw the SOC below 75% you may give up 3% of capacity over 1000-cycles (3Ah). We don't know what happens if you operate 50-100% or 25-100% though. (see https://www.researchgate.net/publica...hite_Batteries )
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Old 10-05-2017, 10:53 PM   #159
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there is no mention on the PD4655 site about lithium batteries
i have in my 2017 22FB sport

https://www.progressivedyn.com/rv/po...#charge-wizard

all they say is

Inteli-Power 4600 Series models can recharge the battery to 90% in 3-6 hours using our patented Charge Wizard technology:

BOOST Mode 14.4 Volts – Rapidly brings RV battery up to 90% of full charge.
NORMAL Mode 13.6 Volts – Safely completes the charge.
STORAGE Mode 13.2 Volts – Maintains charge with minimal gassing or water loss.
EQUALIZATION Mode 14.4 Volts – Every 21 hours for a period of 15 minutes prevents battery stratification
& sulfation – the leading cause of battery failure.
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Old 10-05-2017, 10:57 PM   #160
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It is a new revision, I may have one of the first. It adds a jumper on the board to enable lithium mode and disable the Charge Wizard.

I will do a more detailed write up. I was hoping to compare how the charging works with the Charge Wizard VS lithium mode, but sadly I gotta tow warning from the city today and my trailer has to relocate to a storage lot and i won’t get to experiment for a while.
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Old 10-05-2017, 11:06 PM   #161
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aarrgghh for you

our city allows up to 22'
thus our sport 22fb ( only 20' long) is allowed on the driveway

But, we need to store it away for the winter in a covered locations, thus we too will not be able to work on it over the winter

i will look for your details on the converter details.

do i have to send it back to PD?
or can they send me a new one and then i send the old one back

its only a few months old
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Old 10-05-2017, 11:11 PM   #162
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I’d give PD a call, their customer service is top notch and the guy that answers the technical question is a fountain of knowledge. I spent 45+ minutes chatting with him about various items (somewhat) related to this. They are focused on creating quality products and customer service.

I only found out about this by talking to Randy at Best Converter and asking if they had any lithium capable converters that would fit into the power center. He informed me they had “just gotten a shipment in” that was supposed to have this change. I placed the order and they confirmed the lithium support and shipped it.

If I could fit it in my driveway I would be ok, but then I’d have to give up my garage and charging my EV.
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Old 10-06-2017, 02:22 PM   #163
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i called PD today and talked to the same person

i bought my unit in aug/17
the new one came out in sept /17

he said that mine was very likely the old one that could only charge upto 14.4v and not 14.6v like the new one
i would have to go into manual boost mode (;
i want auto (;

he said for only $145 plus shipping and my old unit, they would update it.

that's a lot of money and almost as much as i paid new ($216)

i will have to think about this
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Old 10-06-2017, 02:29 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by waninae39 View Post
i called PD today and talked to the same person

i bought my unit in aug/17
the new one came out in sept /17

he said that mine was very likely the old one that could only charge upto 14.4v and not 14.6v like the new one
i would have to go into manual boost mode (;
i want auto (;

he said for only $145 plus shipping and my old unit, they would update it.

that's a lot of money and almost as much as i paid new ($216)

i will have to think about this
So what is the risk if you do not update to the latest revised PD unit?
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:51 PM   #165
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So I installed the new PD4655 unit and a Victron BMS-712 (the new one with built in Bluetooth) today. So far in lithium mode my voltage hasn’t ever hit 14.6V, it plateaus at ~14.44V. Which isn’t necessarily a problem, if it is a true CC/CV it may actually limit there which is about ideal as it flat lines at just over 3.6V per cell which is exactly the target. Perhaps in CC mode it attempts to run 14.6V but it bleeds down due to the battery acting as a load. I also haven’t seen 55 amps, only ~27amps.

Currently running s load to draw the battery down to 10% or so and will see how it goes.
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:44 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Hans627 View Post
So what is the risk if you do not update to the latest revised PD unit?
The lithium needs 14.6V to charge. The MAX volt for my unit is only 14.4V

To charge it up to 80% , you need the disable the Charge Wizard
i do NOT want the manual the unit

here is what are front left area look like in a 2017 sport 22Fb AS

i only have 14"w x 11"D x 17"H space to install the battery inside

i'm look to get this battery
https://www.lithiumion-batteries.com...m-ion-battery/
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Old 10-09-2017, 07:07 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by waninae39 View Post
The lithium needs 14.6V to charge. The MAX volt for my unit is only 14.4V

To charge it up to 80% , you need the disable the Charge Wizard
i do NOT want the manual the unit

here is what are front left area look like in a 2017 sport 22Fb AS

i only have 14"w x 11"D x 17"H space to install the battery inside

i'm look to get this battery
https://www.lithiumion-batteries.com...m-ion-battery/
I installed mine exactly in that empty spot directly under the access panel, between the water heater and the partition to the 12V distribution bars. It fits perfectly, I then installed the Victron BMS shunt on the other side of the panel in the 12V distribution "bay" and I added an actual full disconnect/breaker above the battery as well...that I can reach by crawling under the bed through the access door to fully kill all loads in the trailer. I then installed the BMS-712 monitor above the manual disconnect switch.

I just noticed that in your 3rd photo they clearly changed things a bit at some point, perhaps for the 2017+ when they added the "lift up" bed...as mine does not have that space enclosed. In my photo you can see the water heater on one side of the battery and the 12V distribution area on the other. (this is not the final state photo, as I had a cheap Amazon shunt/monitor that was pointless and re-cabled it all later)

I'm waiting to do a full write up on it all until after I get my new blog online so that I don't have to do it twice, I will share when I do.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:39 PM   #168
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this is the h/w heater are to the left of my last post the 12 distribution area is to the right
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