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Old 02-09-2015, 09:31 PM   #1
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Battery Venting???

A few questions maybe some of you can verify and/or give an opinion on.
I have a 61' Ambassador with the battery on the front outside (Room for one battery only). I think I'd rather have the spare tired there.
I'm converting over the mid-bedroom from 2 twins, to 1 48" full on the road side, moving the drawer unit on the curbside up to create a "dresser" kind of thing.

1) A "Battery Vent" should be at the top of the compartment (Assuming it's inside)?

2) Is a lower vent needed too? Or just a drain?

3) Can the "drain and or lower vent" be ended into the underbelly, or should it go all the way through to below the belly pan?

4) Would a well sealed wood compartment vented into a wheel well be a safe setup? The area below the above said "dresser", directly above the axles could fit as many as 4 batteries (I only want two for now, but the option would be nice). I'm doing a full redo of this area, I could just make sure the compartment is totally sealed, using wood is easiest for me.
I don't love the idea of venting into the wheel well, but coming through the side is something I'd rather not do.

5) Another option would be about 4' behind the real axle, above the new 8gal black tank. But if I did that, could I go to the main "vent stack" for the drains?

6) How do you figure out how much venting is needed?

7) How do you feel about venting into the wheel well?

I can't find anything on the net that seems credible that will answer these questions.
Oh, as I had the floor off, I ran new 12volt wires, brake wires, speaker wires, AC 3-wires and literally "back up wires".

Thanks in advance for any input you may have on this subject!
I MUST feel safe with this battery box setup. If not, I can lift up the bed about 10 inches and put the spare tire there and just have the single battery up front-outside. The bed is not built yet, this was the original plan!
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Old 02-09-2015, 09:45 PM   #2
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My '67 Globetrotter had a vent above the battery compartment door. This was intended to connect to the vent from the battery via a flexable tube. The battery was under the street side bed. There was no addition vent.
My '72 TW has no venting in the compartment and is sealed off from the inside of the trailer. I haven't had any issues with odors.
Are you intending on placing the battery in a plastic marine type battery box or mounting it to the floor?

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Old 02-09-2015, 10:10 PM   #3
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Ideally, if I put them next to the wheel well, I'd rather just have a "tray", as the "Compartment" would be sealed from the inside. I could also put a few luvers in the electric compartment door that is right there.
But still, I'll sleep better with it vented out on some level.
Is it "odor" to be worried about? Or toxic acid gases?
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Old 02-09-2015, 11:17 PM   #4
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What your venting is Hydrogen gas as the batteries are being charged.
This is why you have to add water now and then.

Sulfuric acid is H2So4 what boils off is H2o.

This is what a lot of small trailer manufactures use . The bottom of the box has a vent inlet through the floor and the outlet vent out the side of the trailer.

The bottom inlet could be left unused and only use the top vent.
The beauty of the top vent is you could route the hose to any location . But stay away from the vent stack. That could be a real stinker inside the trailer without the bottom vent and a good seal on the two halves of the box.

The other option is GEL batteries, they don't need venting.

In either case upgrade to a better charger that has a maintainer mode.
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Old 02-10-2015, 12:41 AM   #5
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I would challenge you to go from a wet cell battery to a Glass Matt Battery and not worry about venting...
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Old 02-10-2015, 05:44 AM   #6
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Gel batteries are NOT the answer, as they also require venting. They are simply a gelled electroltye. AGM, or Absorbed Glass Mat batteries will NOT VENT provided that they receive proper charging.
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Old 02-10-2015, 05:52 AM   #7
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Hi Studioman, my input is below in BOLD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Studioman View Post
A few questions maybe some of you can verify and/or give an opinion on.
I have a 61' Ambassador with the battery on the front outside (Room for one battery only). I think I'd rather have the spare tired there.
I'm converting over the mid-bedroom from 2 twins, to 1 48" full on the road side, moving the drawer unit on the curbside up to create a "dresser" kind of thing.

1) A "Battery Vent" should be at the top of the compartment (Assuming it's inside)? Yes, since that gas that's emitted when you charge your batteries it lighter than air it will rise.

2) Is a lower vent needed too? Or just a drain? Not necessarily. If you want to circulate air within the battery compartment, then you'd want an inlet and and outlet, but if it's just batteries in there you probably don't need this.

3) Can the "drain and or lower vent" be ended into the underbelly, or should it go all the way through to below the belly pan? See answer #2.

4) Would a well sealed wood compartment vented into a wheel well be a safe setup? Sure, you could do this, although you'd want to be careful that the rent cover that you use does NOT allow moisture or debris from the wheels to get into your camper. Search for something called One Way Vents, which are typically used for venting attics in houses.

5) Another option would be about 4' behind the real axle, above the new 8gal black tank. But if I did that, could I go to the main "vent stack" for the drains? Utilizing he existing vent stack isn't a bad idea, although depending on the weight of your batteries you may not want to position them that far behind the axles for fear of unbalancing your camper. If you put too much weight behind the rear axles this will reduce the needed tongue weight and cause your camper to sway when towing. My recommendation is to determine what your manufacturer specified tongue weight is, then make sure it's the same, using a scale, after you've positioned the batteries. If it's significantly less, then you might want to put the spare tire back there instead.

6) How do you figure out how much venting is needed? As long as their is a clear, unobstructed path from the battery box to the outside you should be fine. Something like a 2'' diameter flexible house would be fine.

7) How do you feel about venting into the wheel well? See answer #4 above.

I can't find anything on the net that seems credible that will answer these questions.
Oh, as I had the floor off, I ran new 12volt wires, brake wires, speaker wires, AC 3-wires and literally "back up wires". What thickness (gauge, "AWG") did you run for the new 12v wires? Depending on the length of the trailer, you may want to run thicker-than-the-original wires to account for any voltage drop you may get from the increased length of the run to the batteries.

Thanks in advance for any input you may have on this subject!
I MUST feel safe with this battery box setup. If not, I can lift up the bed about 10 inches and put the spare tire there and just have the single battery up front-outside. The bed is not built yet, this was the original plan! Found this article to be really helpful when designing my battery box: Battery Box Design by Home Power.
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Old 02-10-2015, 06:43 AM   #8
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wire sizes

I ran 14 gauge to trailering lights (Brake, marker, etc).
12 gauge stranded tin to electric brakes, I left the old wires as backup to the new wires.
10 gauge stranded tin to new water pump, hot water tank, furnace, new stereo.
8 gauge to the front, JUST IN CASE I ever put the battery back up in the front. I'll use this from the truck for now, tapping into the old setup near the new panel.
I'll run a 4ot from the charger/panel to the batteries once I am that far (Several weeks out from building that dresser/batteries area).
Speaker wire is just copper 16 gauge to the surround, 14 gauge copper to the fronts, sub and outside-curbside.
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Old 02-10-2015, 07:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinstream View Post
I would challenge you to go from a wet cell battery to a Glass Matt Battery and not worry about venting...
Are you talking about a GEL or AGM battery.

Dopy me, I was thinking AGM and wrote GEL

AGM batteries do not need to be vented. But the charger has to be a Smart Charger.
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Old 02-10-2015, 07:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster View Post
Gel batteries are NOT the answer, as they also require venting. They are simply a gelled electroltye. AGM, or Absorbed Glass Mat batteries will NOT VENT provided that they receive proper charging.
Opps I ment AGM see above post
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Old 02-10-2015, 07:53 AM   #11
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ALL acid batteries will vent. Some are designed to vent always others only when something goes wrong. Lead acid batteries vapor some sulfuric acid but very little unless overcharging. The real problem with wet cell batteries is the hydrogen gas when heavy charging. Explosive, lighter than air gas. Compartment must be vented, and have no source of ignition. Use the heaviest agw wire you can for the charging circuit.
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Old 02-10-2015, 11:06 AM   #12
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Charger/panel/converter

This is all I was hoping to use... Opinions?
On the AC side I'll have 4 breakers. 1)Over head AC. 2) TVs-stereo, DVD.
3 & 4) Lights (Now ALL LED) and outlets.

Progressive Dynamics PD4045KV Mighty Mini AC DC Distribution Panel & Inteli-Power Converter with Charge Wizard 45A Camper Trailer RV
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Old 02-10-2015, 11:23 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenritas View Post
Are you talking about a GEL or AGM battery.

Dopy me, I was thinking AGM and wrote GEL

AGM batteries do not need to be vented. But the charger has to be a Smart Charger.
AGM, battery is the only way to go, some say they need to be vented but that is not correct, most all european cars put AGM batteries under the seat of your car and are not vented. Yes you are correct that certain chargers do not work on AGM batteries but you should step up and put a multi state charger in any ways, money well spent to save you more money in the future for battery replacement. AGM batteries with multi state charger will last 3 to 4 times longer that wet cell and if you are going add solar they are the only way to go.
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Old 02-10-2015, 05:07 PM   #14
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Technically, any AGM battery (also called a 'valve regulated lead acid battery, or VRLA', will open their one-way vent to expel excess gasses. This will happen during only 2 very specific circumstances.

1. The VRLA battery is being overcharged by am improper of defective charging source. I can't speak for other AGMs, but it takes an extended charge of over 15.5 VDC @ 77 deg F to do thus

2. The battery is subject to thermal runaway ( this can also be caused by extended over charging.

In either situation. The one-way valve WILL open and vent the H2SO4 gas from within the battery. Note that in most AGMs, the gasses produced while charging are recombined back into the glass mat. This is part of the design parameters of a true AGM battery.

If you're really concerned with battery gassing and don't want to deal with a vented battery installation...... The answer is lithium batteries......specifically the LiFePO-4 formulation.

These batteries have no vents, sulfuric acid or any other of the hazards of lead-acid batteries. These are also NOT the type that were igniting on aircraft......those were the lithium cobalt formulation.

Benefits: much higher energy densities, significant weight savings (28 lbs/ 100 amp-hours), greatly extended life via approx. 5000 charge cycles..... and the ability to draw them to 85% depth of discharge with no damage. Definitely the future of battery power.


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Old 02-10-2015, 06:13 PM   #15
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battery placement

I have read all of this thread. I am building a cabinet for my battery, it has a large panel louvre to the outside. It is next to the water heater compartment. , which is also vented to outside. Is there any hazard to having the battery right next to water heater? (wall seperating the two) Thanks, Richard in Texas
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Old 02-10-2015, 06:22 PM   #16
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Batteries should NOT be located near at heat source or ANY source of ignition!


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Old 02-10-2015, 10:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dixie722 View Post
I have read all of this thread. I am building a cabinet for my battery, it has a large panel louvre to the outside. It is next to the water heater compartment. , which is also vented to outside. Is there any hazard to having the battery right next to water heater? (wall seperating the two) Thanks, Richard in Texas
Many people built what you are building, box with louvres to the out side, and there is nothing wrong with that except when you are cold weather camping. If there is one thing that zaps battery performance and longevity it's cold weather!

I do not understand why Airstream trailers of today places Batteries in the front "A frame" area exposing them to excess moister traveling down the road, cold outside temperatures, excess tong weigh, and long large cable runs to Inverters and chargers, solar...

That being said, I would place your battery box forward or aft of wheel well so the weight is close to axles to balance the weight. Second I would place box as close to where your inverter/charger will be for short large cable runs, I would make sure batteries can maintain temp for periods of cold weather, and lastly try place box behind usable cabinets storage and not in front. Yes it makes getting to the battery tricky but how often to you change out batteries.

I hope the picture helps further explain my statements and shows relationship of wheel well, battery, inverter/charger and connections... One last note this picture was taken before battery tie down straps were installed!!

Hope that helps!
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Old 02-17-2015, 10:04 PM   #18
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Nice Vinstream! How long can you go on that baby? 255ah? What size/brand converter do you have? What size wire are you using for that.
Will you insulate that box, or lid also?

I know it's probably not what the OP was going to do, but nice none the less.

Do you like the lifeline batteries?

Also, if I were to add solar, where would you tie into such a system?

TIMK
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDSLED88 View Post
Nice Vinstream! How long can you go on that baby? 255ah? What size/brand converter do you have? What size wire are you using for that.
Will you insulate that box, or lid also?

I know it's probably not what the OP was going to do, but nice none the less.

Do you like the lifeline batteries?

Also, if I were to add solar, where would you tie into such a system?

TIMK
Its easier to show you pictures than try to explain with words alone.

I only use Lifeline batteries I am not sold on the new Lithium batteries (yet), and would never use Old deep cycle wet cell batteries. I like one battery and not several batteries wired together based on battery warranties, If one battery fails the battery companies replace just the one battery, but the bad battery has damaged the other batteries and the rule is you replace all batteries at the same time not just one. If my 255ah one battery goes bad I get a entire new battery from Lifeline!

I only like Xantrex 3000 watt pure sin wave inverter/charger in one, period! There is nothing else on the market that compares. Most people have a charger of some kind (most are not tristate) so they only add a inverter and in most cases its a 2000 watt modified sine wave witch behaves like a 1000 watt pure sine wave with microwaves so you cant run high demand electronics. You asked how long can 255ah last... well I can run my air conditioner off my inverter for 45 minutes before the battery get too low and shuts off because I can program it to do so with the remote control unit that Xantrex makes. Last point some say 3000 is too big, but instead of just having some 110 outlets run off the inverter my entire 110 system runs through the inverter/charger making a seamless transition from shore power, inverter, generator...

Wire:
Depends on length of runs and what you are connecting. I like 4/0 on all battery, inverter, connections. That is why every thing is closely positioned so that large cable runs are limited as much as posable.

Insulation:
Is not needed because that battery is with in the outside insulated walls and AGM batteries can be vented to the inside (many argue this is not correct or a no no but is standard in all european caravans) of coach unlike the old style well cells that must be vented to the outside.

SOLAR hook up:
I am not a fan of GO solar like many on this forum are, because first their solar controller is out of date and second their display is on the back side of the controller. So you have to run more large wires than you should have to so you can both hook it up and read the display. I like the unit pictured because it is the latest in technology, has a temp sending unit, and has a great remote display you can place else were that runs off cat5 line so you can mount the controller close to battery hookup where it should be. The wiring from the controller goes to a junction box where two separate wires merge into one. Reason, I have both fixed panels on the roof (160 watts), and a separate mobile plug in group of panels (150 watts) that can be placed toward the sun or out of the shade if Im parked under trees. I like 8 gage wire for all solar runs.
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