Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-09-2015, 10:31 PM   #1
2 Rivet Member
 
Mantua , Ohio
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 97
Battery Venting???

A few questions maybe some of you can verify and/or give an opinion on.
I have a 61' Ambassador with the battery on the front outside (Room for one battery only). I think I'd rather have the spare tired there.
I'm converting over the mid-bedroom from 2 twins, to 1 48" full on the road side, moving the drawer unit on the curbside up to create a "dresser" kind of thing.

1) A "Battery Vent" should be at the top of the compartment (Assuming it's inside)?

2) Is a lower vent needed too? Or just a drain?

3) Can the "drain and or lower vent" be ended into the underbelly, or should it go all the way through to below the belly pan?

4) Would a well sealed wood compartment vented into a wheel well be a safe setup? The area below the above said "dresser", directly above the axles could fit as many as 4 batteries (I only want two for now, but the option would be nice). I'm doing a full redo of this area, I could just make sure the compartment is totally sealed, using wood is easiest for me.
I don't love the idea of venting into the wheel well, but coming through the side is something I'd rather not do.

5) Another option would be about 4' behind the real axle, above the new 8gal black tank. But if I did that, could I go to the main "vent stack" for the drains?

6) How do you figure out how much venting is needed?

7) How do you feel about venting into the wheel well?

I can't find anything on the net that seems credible that will answer these questions.
Oh, as I had the floor off, I ran new 12volt wires, brake wires, speaker wires, AC 3-wires and literally "back up wires".

Thanks in advance for any input you may have on this subject!
I MUST feel safe with this battery box setup. If not, I can lift up the bed about 10 inches and put the spare tire there and just have the single battery up front-outside. The bed is not built yet, this was the original plan!
__________________

__________________
Studioman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2015, 10:45 PM   #2
Rivet Master
 
Tom Nugler's Avatar

 
1972 25' Tradewind
Currently Looking...
McHenry County , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,129
Images: 5
My '67 Globetrotter had a vent above the battery compartment door. This was intended to connect to the vent from the battery via a flexable tube. The battery was under the street side bed. There was no addition vent.
My '72 TW has no venting in the compartment and is sealed off from the inside of the trailer. I haven't had any issues with odors.
Are you intending on placing the battery in a plastic marine type battery box or mounting it to the floor?

Tom
__________________

__________________
AirForums # 2806
WBCCI / VAC # 6411
TAC IL-11

Not All Who Wander Are Lost.

Avid supporter of trailing edge technology.
Tom Nugler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2015, 11:10 PM   #3
2 Rivet Member
 
Mantua , Ohio
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 97
Ideally, if I put them next to the wheel well, I'd rather just have a "tray", as the "Compartment" would be sealed from the inside. I could also put a few luvers in the electric compartment door that is right there.
But still, I'll sleep better with it vented out on some level.
Is it "odor" to be worried about? Or toxic acid gases?
__________________
Studioman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2015, 12:17 AM   #4
Rivet Master
 
Glenritas's Avatar

 
1969 25' Tradewind
Shasta Lake , California
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 686
What your venting is Hydrogen gas as the batteries are being charged.
This is why you have to add water now and then.

Sulfuric acid is H2So4 what boils off is H2o.

This is what a lot of small trailer manufactures use . The bottom of the box has a vent inlet through the floor and the outlet vent out the side of the trailer.

The bottom inlet could be left unused and only use the top vent.
The beauty of the top vent is you could route the hose to any location . But stay away from the vent stack. That could be a real stinker inside the trailer without the bottom vent and a good seal on the two halves of the box.

The other option is GEL batteries, they don't need venting.

In either case upgrade to a better charger that has a maintainer mode.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF0268.JPG
Views:	140
Size:	77.1 KB
ID:	232087   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF0264.JPG
Views:	128
Size:	75.5 KB
ID:	232088  

__________________
Glen & Jane 1969 all electric Airstream 25' TradeWind
2014 Toyota Tundra
1998 Chevy Tahoe
2001 Casita 13' Patriot Deluxe

My Build Thread https://www.airforums.com/forums/f11...ml#post1997059
Glenritas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2015, 01:41 AM   #5
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
vinstream's Avatar
 
1962 19' Globetrotter
1963 19' Globetrotter
1961 19' Globetrotter
Wheat Ridge , Colorado
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 624
Images: 2
I would challenge you to go from a wet cell battery to a Glass Matt Battery and not worry about venting...
__________________
www.VINSTREAM.com
Wheat Ridge, Colorado
WBCCI # 1962
Instagram #Vinstream
vinstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2015, 06:44 AM   #6
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
lewster's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples, FL , Hood River, OR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,281
Gel batteries are NOT the answer, as they also require venting. They are simply a gelled electroltye. AGM, or Absorbed Glass Mat batteries will NOT VENT provided that they receive proper charging.
__________________
Lew Farber...ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician...RVIA Certified Master Tech ...AM Solar Authorized Installation Center...AIRSTREAM Solar & Electrical Specialist...Micro Air 'Easy Start' Sales and Installations
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2015, 06:52 AM   #7
4 Rivet Member
 
trekerboy's Avatar
 
1979 31' Excella 500
Charlevoix , Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 318
Hi Studioman, my input is below in BOLD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Studioman View Post
A few questions maybe some of you can verify and/or give an opinion on.
I have a 61' Ambassador with the battery on the front outside (Room for one battery only). I think I'd rather have the spare tired there.
I'm converting over the mid-bedroom from 2 twins, to 1 48" full on the road side, moving the drawer unit on the curbside up to create a "dresser" kind of thing.

1) A "Battery Vent" should be at the top of the compartment (Assuming it's inside)? Yes, since that gas that's emitted when you charge your batteries it lighter than air it will rise.

2) Is a lower vent needed too? Or just a drain? Not necessarily. If you want to circulate air within the battery compartment, then you'd want an inlet and and outlet, but if it's just batteries in there you probably don't need this.

3) Can the "drain and or lower vent" be ended into the underbelly, or should it go all the way through to below the belly pan? See answer #2.

4) Would a well sealed wood compartment vented into a wheel well be a safe setup? Sure, you could do this, although you'd want to be careful that the rent cover that you use does NOT allow moisture or debris from the wheels to get into your camper. Search for something called One Way Vents, which are typically used for venting attics in houses.

5) Another option would be about 4' behind the real axle, above the new 8gal black tank. But if I did that, could I go to the main "vent stack" for the drains? Utilizing he existing vent stack isn't a bad idea, although depending on the weight of your batteries you may not want to position them that far behind the axles for fear of unbalancing your camper. If you put too much weight behind the rear axles this will reduce the needed tongue weight and cause your camper to sway when towing. My recommendation is to determine what your manufacturer specified tongue weight is, then make sure it's the same, using a scale, after you've positioned the batteries. If it's significantly less, then you might want to put the spare tire back there instead.

6) How do you figure out how much venting is needed? As long as their is a clear, unobstructed path from the battery box to the outside you should be fine. Something like a 2'' diameter flexible house would be fine.

7) How do you feel about venting into the wheel well? See answer #4 above.

I can't find anything on the net that seems credible that will answer these questions.
Oh, as I had the floor off, I ran new 12volt wires, brake wires, speaker wires, AC 3-wires and literally "back up wires". What thickness (gauge, "AWG") did you run for the new 12v wires? Depending on the length of the trailer, you may want to run thicker-than-the-original wires to account for any voltage drop you may get from the increased length of the run to the batteries.

Thanks in advance for any input you may have on this subject!
I MUST feel safe with this battery box setup. If not, I can lift up the bed about 10 inches and put the spare tire there and just have the single battery up front-outside. The bed is not built yet, this was the original plan! Found this article to be really helpful when designing my battery box: Battery Box Design by Home Power.
__________________
trekerboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2015, 07:43 AM   #8
2 Rivet Member
 
Mantua , Ohio
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 97
wire sizes

I ran 14 gauge to trailering lights (Brake, marker, etc).
12 gauge stranded tin to electric brakes, I left the old wires as backup to the new wires.
10 gauge stranded tin to new water pump, hot water tank, furnace, new stereo.
8 gauge to the front, JUST IN CASE I ever put the battery back up in the front. I'll use this from the truck for now, tapping into the old setup near the new panel.
I'll run a 4ot from the charger/panel to the batteries once I am that far (Several weeks out from building that dresser/batteries area).
Speaker wire is just copper 16 gauge to the surround, 14 gauge copper to the fronts, sub and outside-curbside.
__________________
Studioman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2015, 08:22 AM   #9
Rivet Master
 
Glenritas's Avatar

 
1969 25' Tradewind
Shasta Lake , California
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 686
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinstream View Post
I would challenge you to go from a wet cell battery to a Glass Matt Battery and not worry about venting...
Are you talking about a GEL or AGM battery.

Dopy me, I was thinking AGM and wrote GEL

AGM batteries do not need to be vented. But the charger has to be a Smart Charger.
__________________
Glen & Jane 1969 all electric Airstream 25' TradeWind
2014 Toyota Tundra
1998 Chevy Tahoe
2001 Casita 13' Patriot Deluxe

My Build Thread https://www.airforums.com/forums/f11...ml#post1997059
Glenritas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2015, 08:24 AM   #10
Rivet Master
 
Glenritas's Avatar

 
1969 25' Tradewind
Shasta Lake , California
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 686
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster View Post
Gel batteries are NOT the answer, as they also require venting. They are simply a gelled electroltye. AGM, or Absorbed Glass Mat batteries will NOT VENT provided that they receive proper charging.
Opps I ment AGM see above post
__________________
Glen & Jane 1969 all electric Airstream 25' TradeWind
2014 Toyota Tundra
1998 Chevy Tahoe
2001 Casita 13' Patriot Deluxe

My Build Thread https://www.airforums.com/forums/f11...ml#post1997059
Glenritas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2015, 08:53 AM   #11
Zil
3 Rivet Member
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
egg harbor city , South Jersey
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 210
ALL acid batteries will vent. Some are designed to vent always others only when something goes wrong. Lead acid batteries vapor some sulfuric acid but very little unless overcharging. The real problem with wet cell batteries is the hydrogen gas when heavy charging. Explosive, lighter than air gas. Compartment must be vented, and have no source of ignition. Use the heaviest agw wire you can for the charging circuit.
__________________
Zil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2015, 12:06 PM   #12
2 Rivet Member
 
Mantua , Ohio
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 97
Charger/panel/converter

This is all I was hoping to use... Opinions?
On the AC side I'll have 4 breakers. 1)Over head AC. 2) TVs-stereo, DVD.
3 & 4) Lights (Now ALL LED) and outlets.

Progressive Dynamics PD4045KV Mighty Mini AC DC Distribution Panel & Inteli-Power Converter with Charge Wizard 45A Camper Trailer RV
__________________
Studioman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2015, 12:23 PM   #13
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
vinstream's Avatar
 
1962 19' Globetrotter
1963 19' Globetrotter
1961 19' Globetrotter
Wheat Ridge , Colorado
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 624
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenritas View Post
Are you talking about a GEL or AGM battery.

Dopy me, I was thinking AGM and wrote GEL

AGM batteries do not need to be vented. But the charger has to be a Smart Charger.
AGM, battery is the only way to go, some say they need to be vented but that is not correct, most all european cars put AGM batteries under the seat of your car and are not vented. Yes you are correct that certain chargers do not work on AGM batteries but you should step up and put a multi state charger in any ways, money well spent to save you more money in the future for battery replacement. AGM batteries with multi state charger will last 3 to 4 times longer that wet cell and if you are going add solar they are the only way to go.
__________________
www.VINSTREAM.com
Wheat Ridge, Colorado
WBCCI # 1962
Instagram #Vinstream
vinstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2015, 06:07 PM   #14
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
lewster's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples, FL , Hood River, OR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,281
Technically, any AGM battery (also called a 'valve regulated lead acid battery, or VRLA', will open their one-way vent to expel excess gasses. This will happen during only 2 very specific circumstances.

1. The VRLA battery is being overcharged by am improper of defective charging source. I can't speak for other AGMs, but it takes an extended charge of over 15.5 VDC @ 77 deg F to do thus

2. The battery is subject to thermal runaway ( this can also be caused by extended over charging.

In either situation. The one-way valve WILL open and vent the H2SO4 gas from within the battery. Note that in most AGMs, the gasses produced while charging are recombined back into the glass mat. This is part of the design parameters of a true AGM battery.

If you're really concerned with battery gassing and don't want to deal with a vented battery installation...... The answer is lithium batteries......specifically the LiFePO-4 formulation.

These batteries have no vents, sulfuric acid or any other of the hazards of lead-acid batteries. These are also NOT the type that were igniting on aircraft......those were the lithium cobalt formulation.

Benefits: much higher energy densities, significant weight savings (28 lbs/ 100 amp-hours), greatly extended life via approx. 5000 charge cycles..... and the ability to draw them to 85% depth of discharge with no damage. Definitely the future of battery power.


Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357
__________________

__________________
Lew Farber...ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician...RVIA Certified Master Tech ...AM Solar Authorized Installation Center...AIRSTREAM Solar & Electrical Specialist...Micro Air 'Easy Start' Sales and Installations
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Venting Battery into vent pipe for holding tank lwebb Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 0 08-27-2012 01:43 PM
Propane tanks venting! Resorts LP Gas, Piping, Tanks & Regulators 20 06-22-2007 07:36 AM
Replacing cooktop with oven - venting issues??? Alumatube Stoves, Ovens & Microwaves 2 03-30-2007 08:10 AM
1960 fridge venting Safari Tim Refrigerators 19 01-30-2007 10:24 PM
Refer heat / venting JaceBeck 1999 Safari 3 08-21-2003 09:40 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.