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Old 06-11-2019, 06:41 AM   #43
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I know I'm going to get accused of "over" engineering, but when it comes to circuit protection devices I am very picky. Carling Technologies is the manufacturer of the hydraulic/magnetic class A, C, and F series breakers sold by Blue Seas, Midnite Solar, Outback, Magnum and others. Unless I can find a datasheet like the Series F breaker one shown below, I won't consider other brands.

https://www.carlingtech.com/sites/de...COS_010714.pdf

Being hydraulic/magnetic and not thermal these breakers maintain their trip level through out their operating temperature range; plus they are also rated as switches with a MTBF of thousands of full power actuation's.

Just my thoughts,
Pat
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:36 AM   #44
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Pat - not quite that over-kill oriented today. Maybe tomorrow ..... Is this an application where cable end lugs could be deleted? Would need a breaker box - power center .....

Bob - the West Marine on-line pricing for a T-series is $51 for 300 amp and $85 for the holder. Do T-series fuses come in different specifications?

Battleborn also suggested the ANL fuse style. West Marine lists the fuses for $25-30 and the holder for $30.

Gater - Not sure about the concern with road vibration. Lots of applications see bumps and jars. But it's a thought I had not investigated and will. Thanks for making the point for folks to consider.

Pat
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:41 AM   #45
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I use ANL fuses with Blue Sea Systems holders, either single or double.
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:02 AM   #46
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Hi

Both fuses and breakers fail from time to time. Neither one is particularly reliable. If you are designing a high reliability system, fuses and breakers are not going to be part of it. They fail and the system goes down .... not what you are designing it to do.

Operation in a trailer is fairly benign. There isn't a lot of shock or vibration, there also isn't much of a temperature range. It's not a stressful environment compared to a *lot* of other things. That assumes you don't go off road at 60+ MPH ..... Airstreams bottom out before things get really crazy.

Fuses go into a car for one very basic reason - cost. Bought in large volumes, they are cheaper. They also are smaller and lighter. Both of those things do help, but money is the driver.

Unless you are routinely shorting things out/ tripping circuits, all of this stuff is there to protect against a highly unlikely event. If you *are* routinely shorting things out, change your habits. A fuse or breaker should never be what catches your mistakes. Sloppy habits will eventually combine with something a bit more potent voltage wise and get you in serious trouble.

If you look in your basement, your home is most likely run on breakers. If it isn't then it was wired a *long* time ago. Houses do not routinely burn down because they have breakers instead of fuses. Similarly RV's do not catch fire on a regular basis because of breakers. (Airstreams have had breakers in them for ... errr ... forever ...).

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Old 06-12-2019, 06:31 AM   #47
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Pat - not quite that over-kill oriented today. Maybe tomorrow ..... Is this an application where cable end lugs could be deleted? Would need a breaker box - power center .....
Pat

No, lugs are needed the F series breakers have 3/8" studs, the A and C series have 1/4" or 5/16" studs. See below.


Pat
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:40 AM   #48
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Pat - that configuration is a bit different than expected. Thanks for posting the graphics of the components. More over-kill leaning today.

Bob - very good summary of the considerations. Yes, blowing fuses is not normal operating procedure. Resetting a breaker on a regular basis is also not at all good practice. Thank you for the analysis.

RM - the ANL fuse seems to have a following. A cool design is the LYNX combiner box that has a set of the ANL fuses integral to the internal buss configuration.

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Old 06-13-2019, 06:29 AM   #49
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Hi

As far as I know T series comes in one flavor of fuse. The holders come in a couple of sizes and shapes. None of them seem to be cheap. With ANL you *can* get low cost holders and fuses.

Since we seem to be heading into a lot of details:

Crimp lugs on big fat cables are generally a good idea. They give you something very solid to hook to the fixture and a good connection to the wire. We tend to use very fine gauge stranded wire for routing stuff in RV's. That is (in general) not what a lot of "direct connect" fixtures expect to interface with. They are either designed for solid wire or heavy gauge stranded.

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Old 06-13-2019, 06:52 AM   #50
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Pat - that configuration is a bit different than expected. Thanks for posting the graphics of the components. More over-kill leaning today.
Pat
All of these breakers are "panel mount" types. Their ability to also act as switches, keeps the installation nice and clean. Below is a photo of the front of my DC Load Center.

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Old 06-13-2019, 09:22 AM   #51
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Bob - Yes, the details are a help to understand the differences in components. That is significantly important due to the limited local availability of some parts or cost differences that challenge the budget.

Pat - Yes, power center mounting is helpful in organizing components. I am currently balancing the hazard of a conductive housing vs the fire protection and organizational value of such an enclosure. Most installations seem to use a non-conductive plywood mounting surface, which provides space for larger cable routing. More details.

Off today to measure existing conditions and lay eyes/hands on existing and proposed components. Pat
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:31 AM   #52
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:22 AM   #53
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-- snip -- good to see all the data you'all are sharing!
Appreciate your encouragement. Circuit protection and wire size review is important for any battery bank upgrade. Pat
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:04 PM   #54
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OK - a bit of thread shift. Visited Glimmer today and took some measurements so the wire pull distance can be estimated and the wire size established.

Also, visited the local West Marine brick and mortar store to lay eyes on components. They sell Blue Sea parts and Ancor cable.

No issue with respect to lugs and cable sold by the foot. The problem - there is no crimping tool. But we covered that in some prior posts.

The T-series fuse had one option. There was a single 300amp fuse. My preference is to use a 200 or 225 amp fuse for this application. And yes, Bob, they are big and expensive.

The ANL fuses were available in a variety of sizes.

The breakers were available in low amperage type A or 285 styles. Not the plan. Maybe Type C or the 187 style switch thermal breaker.

The bus bar connections were rated for 250 amps. Another reason why I'd like to use a 200 amp primary circuit protection component.

The on-off switch was rated at 300 amps. Maybe OK (have one that may get repurposed).

Now, there are other places to source the parts. I'll check a few. However, the parts availability observed today sends a strong message that some parts are more available than others. Those ANL fuses do have a following.

Also saw a sign. Blue Sea parts packages advertised are not available due to Mfg delivery delay. Wonder? Wonder? Wonder?

The information is growing and the options are becoming clearer. Really appreciate the comments and concepts shared by all. Pat
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:12 AM   #55
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I’m perfectly happy designing my own but don’t claim to be an engineer. I’ve put together 4 RV systems. With solar, inverter, and larger than typical battery bank. I’ve learned as I went. No 2 systems are alike.

My current endeavor has 600 W array, 40 A MPPT, 340 Ah LFP (2-170Ah Renogy) in parallel and 3000 W inverter (6000W peak).

I will cook on a 600w to 1800w induction as well as 1000w microwave. Fridge is an Engel that sips 12 volt. AC duties are handled with a Whynter dual hose that will run on the inverter but will not in practice. It’s a bit of a power hog using 8 to 11 amps of ac power. I also have 2 GFCI protected outlets and plan on using a heating pad or blanket for the bed. Fantastic fan handles ventilation duties.

Currently I don’t have a converter, the only charging is solar. If I get a 50-ish amp converter, it would get s 15 amp breaker and be fused at 50 ish amps.

My criteria for voltage drop is no more than 3% for charging sources that includes panels to controller wire run and under 1% battery to inverter run. I use a voltage drop calculator.

Wire runs are quite short. 18” batteries to + bus (individually) using #2/0 protected at each battery with 150 A Blue Sea fuses. Bus to inverter 8” of #1/0 (letting the inverter protect itself). Solar charger 12” of #6 AWG to bus.panels are in series using #10AWG. Since I had left over #2/0 that is what I used batteries to bus and batteries to shunt to (-) bus. I make my own cables.

My thoughts on the inverter size and protection rationale is that I only “needed “
2000 W of inverter (3000 peak) which is around 30 amps at 120 vac and 300 at 12, so my ac main breaker is 30 amps and batteries are fused at 150 A each. The batteries are rated for 100 amps each continuously.

Sorry to ramble. Might be something useful to someone.

Clint
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Old 06-14-2019, 08:55 AM   #56
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-- snip -- Sorry to ramble. Might be something useful to someone. Clint
Clint - different perspectives, different implementation ..... always useful as long as it's shared. Short runs, big cable, circuit protection on AC and DC. Yes, helpful to consider. Thanks!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Camping World has some DC circuit components. Should have known that.

The inverter is just possible to see with a cell phone camera. It has a rats nest of cable but the space is reasonable in size. The heavy cable routing seems to take up most of the room and may be driving long cable length.

Time to get Glimmer home and figure out the details. Pat
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