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Old 06-18-2007, 10:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B25guy
SilverGate,

Thanks for confirming my observations.

My confusion came from the fact that whenever I'd plug into shore power, the red light came on (assuming I had turned it to "store" previously), giving me the impression that the charger to battery connection had been made. I never verified what it really was doing until last fall.

I now know that when I do cycle the switch to "store", the solenoid clicks and disconnects the charge line from batteries as you stated (if on shore, red light stays on, if off shore, red light goes out...perfect)

I am getting the distinct impression that my model year might have used a different switch than others because I cannot ever have the red light go out by switching to "store" while on shore power (no real reason to do this, but possible as you stated). My switch is a center neutral position with a momentary on in either "store" or "use"...you cannot tell by looking at it that it is in either position (red light being irrelevant...it is on when on shore power, period!).

And finally, if I left the switch in "use" and then unplugged from shore power (red light stays on, of course), traveled on, then plugged into shore power again, it stayed in "use"...simple (and this is probably why a lot of others haven't ganged up on me to say "hey stupid...."). I'm an engineer and a helicopter pilot so I just have to know all these use cases???

Marc
Hi Marc,
I just did a little test. With my shoreline off, my battery power was 12.42 Volts, my battery disconnect light was off. I put the shoreline on and the battery use light was on, but it was still really still disconnected to the battery. I got another 12.42 reading off the batteries with that test. Now when i put the switch to use, it connected the charger to the battery. I got a 13.54 reading on that test, so it was charging.

My conclusion:
The light stays on either way but if you hit is to the use position it starts the charger. If you hit it to store it stops the charger. Not a very good setup but that is the same switch i have, 2006 23'. Thanks guys you got me thinking about this, i learn something about this airstream everyday by reading on this site.

I just bought 2, 6 volt lifeline batteries, i was going to get the upgraded charger. Now i think i will just get a volt diplay and disconnect it myself. The lifeline batteries are supposed to be disconnected after they are fully charged. It doesn't matter wheather you are using a 3 stage charger or a one stage charger. I am reading that right off the paper work i got with the battery. Now i don't know wheather the 3 stage unit has it's own disconnect or not, but i didn't believe it did. I really don't know if a 13.2 float will hurt the battery at all, but the directions say disconnect it when the battery is charged.

I don't know why all of these units don't disconnect themselves, if the battery is fully charged, if that is what the batteries call for. George
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Old 06-19-2007, 01:36 PM   #16
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It doesn't matter wheather you are using a 3 stage charger or a one stage charger, or maybe whether. lol
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Old 09-11-2007, 01:01 AM   #17
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Current Update Re: Battery Disconnect Switch

I recently got a private mail from a member here asking about my current configuration of my Battery Disconnect Switch.

As noted in my previous posts on this thread, I leave the Battery Disconnect Switch turned to "use" (on). I never turn it to "store" (off). I have previously discussed this with a well-known full-timer who has reassured me that this is the correct way to go unless I was putting the trailer into storage or changing or servicing the battery.

This configuration has worked fine for my trailerís electrical set-up for the past 9 months that I have had the trailer. The Glassmatt Batteries are doing just fine. Living in Southern California, I never have to winterize or place the trailer in storage. I keep the trailer plugged in at home to shore power between outings.

See photos and the description of my trailerís Factory-installed Solar Charging System at:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f448/factory-installed-solar-charging-system-35476.html

If something changes and I change my current configuration of the Battery Disconnect Switch, I will post an update here. Otherwise, I donít intend to change the setting of this switch.

I will, however, follow the discussions here on this subject from time to time, but will, for the most part, avoid getting into a debate about this issue!

SilverGate
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Old 09-11-2007, 01:11 AM   #18
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Thanks for the clarification, SilverGate!

TB
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:48 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverGate View Post
I recently got a private mail from a member here asking about my current configuration of my Battery Disconnect Switch.

As noted in my previous posts on this thread, I leave the Battery Disconnect Switch turned to "use" (on). I never turn it to "store" (off). I have previously discussed this with a well-known full-timer who has reassured me that this is the correct way to go unless I was putting the trailer into storage or changing or servicing the battery.

This configuration has worked fine for my trailerís electrical set-up for the past 9 months that I have had the trailer. The Glassmatt Batteries are doing just fine. Living in Southern California, I never have to winterize or place the trailer in storage. I keep the trailer plugged in at home to shore power between outings.

See photos and the description of my trailerís Factory-installed Solar Charging System at:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f448/factory-installed-solar-charging-system-35476.html

If something changes and I change my current configuration of the Battery Disconnect Switch, I will post an update here. Otherwise, I donít intend to change the setting of this switch.

I will, however, follow the discussions here on this subject from time to time, but will, for the most part, avoid getting into a debate about this issue!

SilverGate
Update: I continue to stand by the above statement and I continue to never intentionally use the switch in the disconnect position and I don't intend to get into a debate about this.

Curious aside: While boondocking earlier this spring, and upon reentering the trailer in the late afternoon, I noticed that there seemed to be a total loss of trailer power. After checking every circuit breaker and fuse, I got an idea to push the battery disconnect switch (button) by the door, and when I did, I was most relieved to see that the trailer now had full power once again. Earlier in the afternoon, I must have inadvertently bumped the switch as I pulled out the camera tripod case (stored nearby).

SilverGate
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:30 AM   #20
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the "real" reason to switch to store position when hooked up

In my (much earlier) post, I said I could think of no real reason to switch the store/use switch to "store" when hooked to shore power.

It is now clear that this is the easiest way to disconnect the converter/charger from the batteries...primarily to prevent costly water loss i.e. permanently damaged batteries.

I used to leave the shore power hooked up whenever it was parked here at home, mostly to run the Fantastic Fans.

Wasn't as big a problem in Utah but when I moved to Texas, the heat combined with the constant charging boiled out the water much quicker (and I was used to checking the water regularly starting in UT). I was adding much more water here in TX.

After replacing the batteries three years ago and only charging them occasionally and now using a float charger (Battery Minder), they're much healthier.

Summary, if hooked to shore power for several weeks/months, especially in hot weather, probably a good idea to hit the switch to "store" for a day or so. This will give the batteries a chance to cycle down and then take on a charge....but remember, the store/use red light will be on regardless!

Marc
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Old 05-01-2009, 02:52 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverGate View Post
Update: I continue to stand by the above statement and I continue to never intentionally use the switch in the disconnect position and I don't intend to get into a debate about this.
SilverGate
Update: I no longer stand by the above statement. When I had problems with my Parallax converter, I found that it was very useful in diagnosing my problem to turn the Battery Disconnect Switch to "Store" (which separates the battery power from the trailer). I then used a voltmeter on the converter DC output connections and found that it was producing insufficient power and needed to be replaced (twice!)

Just before replacing the Parallax converter with the Xantrex XADC 60A, I disconnected the AC shore power and disconnected the DC battery power to the converter by turning the Battery Disconnect Switch to "Store". (Note: although this worked for me, it is generally recommended that the batteries should be disconnected at the battery terminals to ensure safety.)

See: Parallax Converter Replacement with Xantrex
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Old 05-06-2009, 07:43 PM   #22
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Hey All,

After reading the posts in this thread, I finally figured out why the batteries in our trailer never charged when connected to shore power. It is because the red LED when lit does not indicate the position of the solenoid when the trailer is connected to shore power. Therefore, I asked my 12 year-old son Alex to develop a electronic solution to this problem. He came up with the idea to use a CMOS 4013 flip-flop IC to control the lighting of new LEDS to indicate whether the battery disconnect solenoid is in the use (charging batteries) or store (not charging batteries) position. We drilled two holes in the face plate for surface mount LEDS and one for the toggle switch shown. In the pictures in this post, the trailer is connected to shore power. The blue LED indicates that the batteries are charging and the green LED shows that the batteries are disconnected.
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So that the LEDS do not drain the batteries when off shore power, Alex included a DPDT toggle switch to cut power to the blue/green LEDS only. The toggle switch in the off position does not cut 12 volt power to the IC, thereby allowing the flip-flop to remember the solenoid's state.
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In hopes that this will be useful to other Air Forum-ers, Alex has also included a photograph of the circuit board (attached with screws to the circuit board of the panel), and a circuit diagram. The brightness of the blue/green LEDS is easily adjusted by changing the resistance in series with the LEDS.
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Bye,

Paul and Alex
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Old 08-15-2009, 04:28 PM   #23
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Question Is my battery disconnect switch wired wrong?

In my new 31D the battery disconnect is a large manual switch located next to the DC distribution panel under the front couch. As it is wired now, The batteries, converter output, and solar output are all tied together and the battery switch is between this common point and the distribution panel. Therefor when the battery switch is off, there is no converter power available for the 12 volt bus. I think this switch should be wired between the batteries and the common tie point. Anyone disagree? also I find no store/use switch near the door. I am guessing that I am not supposed to have one.
Thanks,
Ken
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Old 08-15-2009, 05:40 PM   #24
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Well,
I have discovered, after being directed to the diagram in the manual that it is wired correctly. My concern is, with it wired in that manner, will I stand the chance of overcharging the batteries, if I stay connected to shore power for a lengthy time.
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Old 09-26-2010, 11:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Thanks, Marc, for sharing your experiment and observations.

First, at least in my set-up when connected to shore power, the Battery Disconnect Switch red light is on (lit) no matter whether the switch is actually in "Use" (on) position or "Store" (off).
An audible click will be heard when switching from "Use" to "Store" and vice versa.

Second, for the record, my 2007 AS Owners Manual says:
"The disconnect switch is used to separate the batteries from the 12-volt distribution panel and converter charging system.

When the switch is turned "Use" (on) and the trailer is plugged into a 110-volt shoreline, the 12-volt distribution panel will receive power from the converter and the batteries will be charged through the converter charging system.

When the switch is turned to "Store" (off) and the trailer is plugged into a 110-volt shoreline, the 12-volt distribution panel will still receive power from the converter, but the batteries are disconnected from the system. The batteries will not be drained with the switch in the "store" position. The converter will not charge the batteries with the switch in this position.

The charge in the 12-volt batteries is replenished when towing from the tow vehicle alternator through the 7-way cord. This charge will go to the batteries no matter which position the Battery Disconnect Switch is in."

So, Marc, the Battery Disconnect Switch red light is not an indicator of whether the switch is actually in "Use" or "Store" position. The Battery Disconnect Switch needs to be on "Use" for your batteries to get charged when connected to shore power.

In my experiments, I found that the Battery Disconnect Switch does not separate my batteries from my Solar System (2, 53-watt Solar Panels). So in my set-up, even if the Battery Disconnect Switch is in the "Store" position, my AGM batteries will get charged by my Solar PanelsÖ which is one of the benefits of having Solar!

SilverGate
Correction to the 5th paragraph above: The battery(ies) could be drained with the battery disconnect switch in "Store" position if you do not have solar panels exposed to the sun.

Also note that if you experience a sudden loss of battery charge percentage while connected to shore power with the battery disconnect switch set to "Use", it might be because your converter is failing, which happened to me and described here.
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Old 11-01-2010, 03:06 AM   #26
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Summary of key concepts re: my 2007 Safari Battery Disconnect Switch

1. When connected to shore power, the Battery Disconnect Switch red light stays on in either "STORE" or "USE" mode/setting.

2. When disconnected from shore power, the red light is on only in the "USE" mode.

3. When in "Store" setting, the batteries do not receive power from the converter.

4. Even though it looks like a rocker switch, no matter where you push it, it only changes the mode from the one mode setting to the other setting.

5. I normally keep my setting to "USE". But I did find it useful to place it in "STORE" setting while diagnosing a failing converter and during the converter's replacement seen here.
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:24 PM   #27
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This should be inserted in every Trailer manual that comes with a trailer with "the Switch".

The PO had replaced only one of the factory batteries a few months back, Should the other battery be replaced as it is the weak link in the overall power in the system?
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Old 11-03-2010, 08:52 AM   #28
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The Prosine 2.0 converter/inverter ( three stage) has an automatic cut off mechanism to protect AGM batteries after they are fully charged.
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