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Old 07-02-2014, 10:09 PM   #1
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Air conditioning and the 30 amp circuit breaker in a 2014 27FB

When we run the cooling cycle on our heat pump, the 30 amp circuit breaker was popping after running for a while. We turned off "everything" and it still happened. Then we realized the fridge and hot water heater were on electric, so we flipped them to propane. This seems to have helped.

So, the question is whether we should expect this with a 2014 27FB International with one heat pump on the roof (e.g. 30 amp service). Do we really have to turn off absolutely everything before we can expect the heat pump to cool the trailer without popping the 30 amp breaker every few minutes?


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Old 07-02-2014, 10:11 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvery Moon View Post
When we run the cooling cycle on our heat pump, the 30 amp circuit breaker was popping after running for a while. We turned off "everything" and it still happened. Then we realized the fridge and hot water heater were on electric, so we flipped them to propane. This seems to have helped.

So, the question is whether we should expect this with a 2014 27FB International with one heat pump on the roof (e.g. 30 amp service). Do we really have to turn off absolutely everything before we can expect the heat pump to cool the trailer without popping the 30 amp breaker every few minutes?


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Sounds more like a bad breaker.

Andy
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Old 07-02-2014, 10:36 PM   #3
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Time for a dealer trip. The breaker is probably bad. Warrantee item of course.
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Old 07-02-2014, 11:03 PM   #4
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Thanks so much for the advice! We'll get the breaker replaced ASAP at the dealer.


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Old 07-03-2014, 06:56 AM   #5
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if this is a split breaker that is tripping you might want to see what is on the other side of that breaker. some people have reported that when two heavy loads use a split breaker the combined heat can trip the breaker prematurely.

if it is a split breaker, switch off the other half of that breaker and see if it still trips.
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Old 07-03-2014, 07:06 AM   #6
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What size AC unit! If a 15, you may not have a problem. Jim
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Old 07-03-2014, 08:37 AM   #7
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Just to verify... You are using the provided 30A shore power cord plugged into a 30A outlet? The supply voltage as read with a meter from one of the 120v outlets in the trailer is adequate? As voltage drops, the compressor draws more current and can result in expensive failure besides tripping the breaker. I don't even try to run mine if the voltage drops to 110v. With adequate voltage I can run the A/C, fridge, TV and water heater. If I want to run the toaster or micro, I need to switch off the electric side of the WH.

Loose connections at the breaker can cause it to overheat and trip. Breakers that have tripped several times are often weaker and trip below their rated capacity.

My panel was wired such that the 1st breaker is a pair, a 30A plus a 20A. The 30A half serves as the main breaker, the 20A half fed the A/C. The combined heat generated by this "sandwich" would cause them to trip. I replaced this breaker for the reason mentioned and swapped the A/C to a different 20A breaker and the lower demand load to the breaker the A/C was on and have had no further issues in 3 years.


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Old 07-03-2014, 10:55 AM   #8
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I'm learning what will run and what pops in the Az heat.
With the A/C, fridge, converter, and electric side of the W/H on it will pop the circuit breaker, but it takes until the afternoon heat hits before it will. I've felt the circuit breaker and it was warm when it shut down. I have run all of E load after it popped just by leaving the door open over the circuit breakers, but that was when it was in the 90's outside. Now I just power the W/H about an hour before I go to bed, shower, sleep, and when the A/C starts up in the morning, I kill the W/H for the day, I can't use 6 gallons of hot water during the day, it will keep the heat enough I could shower with lukewarm if I forget to turn it back on.
I have one of those meters above, you may be surprised on how much voltage varies during the day.
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Old 07-03-2014, 01:24 PM   #9
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I'm learning what will run and what pops in the Az heat.
With the A/C, fridge, converter, and electric side of the W/H on it will pop the circuit breaker, but it takes until the afternoon heat hits before it will. I've felt the circuit breaker and it was warm when it shut down. I have run all of E load after it popped just by leaving the door open over the circuit breakers, but that was when it was in the 90's outside. Now I just power the W/H about an hour before I go to bed, shower, sleep, and when the A/C starts up in the morning, I kill the W/H for the day, I can't use 6 gallons of hot water during the day, it will keep the heat enough I could shower with lukewarm if I forget to turn it back on.
I have one of those meters above, you may be surprised on how much voltage varies during the day.
I bet that if you leave the electric water heater off, that the breaker will not
blow.

Electric water heater draw a lot of current, like 12 amperes which is 1440 watts.

At 30 amps, the wattage is 3600, so your using 40 percent of that for the water heater alone. Not good.

Andy
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Old 07-03-2014, 02:36 PM   #10
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Just to confirm Andy's read. I have a 28' 2012 Intl CCD. These come with the 15K A/C unit. If I put any kind of major load beyond the A/C I will pop the breaker. For sure that means the HW heater or the microwave. I'm sure my Keurig would do the same thing. IMHO the 30amp system is inadequate for my trailer IF I use the A/C. I am completely uninterested in 50 amp due to the megaweight of the cable. I've just learned to live with it.
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Old 07-03-2014, 03:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvery Moon View Post
When we run the cooling cycle on our heat pump, the 30 amp circuit breaker was popping after running for a while. We turned off "everything" and it still happened. Then we realized the fridge and hot water heater were on electric, so we flipped them to propane. This seems to have helped.

So, the question is whether we should expect this with a 2014 27FB International with one heat pump on the roof (e.g. 30 amp service). Do we really have to turn off absolutely everything before we can expect the heat pump to cool the trailer without popping the 30 amp breaker every few minutes?
Some good advice upthread.

Unless you measure the current you will not know for sure what's happening. I added an ammeter to my breaker panel.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...0v-119935.html

The actual amp draw of the air conditioner will depend on temperature (both in and out) and voltage but typically should be around 14 amps on high fan.

Water heater draws 12 amps.

Fridge draws 4 amps.

Converter, depending on the shape the battery is in and how many lights are on, draws 1-5 amps.

If you do the math you'll see the problem. The amp draw of the A/C goes up as the voltage goes down, while the amp draw of the water heater goes up as the voltage goes up, so they sort of cancel out.
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Old 07-03-2014, 03:18 PM   #12
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In my FC 30, with 30 amp service (just one A/C unit), when I look on my surge protector when running A/C the draw is 15 amp. When I run the water heater on electric, the draw is 15 amp. So together the A/C and water heater are 30 - too high for 30 amp service if I have a light on, fridge, or the water pump. So I don't run A/C and water heater on electric together. I can run the A/C and everything else on electric - fridge, lights, etc. but no water heater - that goes on propane. I don't have a micro so I don't have to worry about that.
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Old 07-03-2014, 03:53 PM   #13
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Great stuff, thanks guys. So, the 30 amp breaker is split with a 20 amp breaker. The 30 amp breaker was quite warm to the touch after it popped. When we turned off the electric side of the HW heater, the breaker stopped popping and the heat pump seemed to be blowing colder air.

We had previously noticed that a combo of heat pump and a water boiling kettle would very quickly pop the 30 amp breaker, so it sure makes sense that a HW heater on electric could generate the same symptom.

We use a surge suppressor backed by a voltage regulator. This ensures that any power we get is clean and within spec. If that goal can't be achieved, either the regulator or the surge suppressor will shut us down until things improve.

I like the idea of adding an ammeter, we may yet do that. For now we'll just be more aware of what's running and ask the dealer to ensure our 30 amp breaker is up to spec. I'll also research moving things around so the 20 amp half of that split breaker is carrying a lighter load to reduce any potential for heat problems. Maybe I'll ask the dealer about this as well.


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Old 07-04-2014, 02:28 PM   #14
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Yes Andy, with the WH off it does not blow. It does not blow with the AC, fridge, micro, and converter running. It might if I ran the micro for 15 minutes or so, waiting for the circuit breaker to heat up enough to pop.
I know that popping it will weaken the circuit breaker so it will pop earlier, so far during my testing it has just popped three times.
As to the circuit breakers on the pedestal, two of them over the years, different parks, running the 50 amp on my Alfa have popped. One was so bad, I ran the 30 amp side, (adapter) for stable power. The other one, I just shaded the pedestal to hide it from the direct sun, no more problems for the rest of that year.
The solar heat pushed it to pop, that is why I tried the open door on the converter just as a test. I did notice, how cheap, wobbly, and flimsy the main 30 breaker is on the AS. I plan on upgrading the converter, and breakers when I go solar.
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