AGM equivalent?

[UAPachyderm]

Does anyone know/recommend an AGM equivalent for the two Interstate HD24-DP 405 CCA 505 MCA batteries in my 2004 28' International CCD ... here are pictures:

[Davern1]

I purchased three Lifeline AGM batteries from this place in Texas. I found that they had the best prices. They had terrific service and fast shipping. I've been very happy with the batteries.

Official Lifeline and Sun Xtender Battery Dealer Distributor

[2airishuman]

first, stating the obvious...

these aren't agms correct? but u wanna REPLACE them with agms?
_______

it appears these are group 24s, so in theory other group 24s will fit that space.

note the dimensions listed and compare dimension when shopping new replacements.

juice INSIDE the package may vary 10% or so,

but agms in group 24 should fit.

my 6 year old lifeline group 27s just keep going and going...

Lifeline Batteries - Marine & RV Deep Cycle Batteries

lifeline makes a g24 and the same battery is available under the concorde (sunextender) brand/label...

the primary difference being lenght of warranty between these 2 clones.

cheers
2air'

[UAPachyderm]

Originally Posted by Davern1

I purchased three Lifeline AGM batteries from this place in Texas. I found that they had the best prices. They had terrific service and fast shipping. I've been very happy with the batteries.

Official Lifeline and Sun Xtender Battery Dealer Distributor

Thank you. All these numbers are Greek to me! I'll read through their website to see which would be the right replacement for me.

[UAPachyderm]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

first, stating the obvious...

these aren't agms correct? but u wanna REPLACE them with agms?
_______

it appears these are group 24s, so in theory other group 24s will fit that space.

note the dimensions listed and compare dimension when shopping new replacements.

juice INSIDE the package may vary 10% or so,

but agms in group 24 should fit.

my 6 year old lifeline group 27s just keep going and going...

Lifeline Batteries - Marine & RV Deep Cycle Batteries

lifeline makes a g24 and the same battery is available under the concorde (sunextender) brand/label...

the primary difference being lenght of warranty between these 2 clones.

cheers
2air'

Yes, as you deduced, mine are not AGMs and I'd like to replace them with AGMs. Thank you for the info!

[2airishuman]

many of the battery websites offer info that will cut through the greek...

there are a couple of older threads that may help too...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...ery-40049.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...ind-40614.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...ies-57392.html

cheers
2air'

[Wabbiteer]

Be proactively watchful with specifications of your converter versus the AGM requirements - - - they may not be complimentary.

[withidl]

I just purchased 2 each Sears Platinum Marine AGM batteries (see photo) to replaced my Interstate group 27 Marine batteries. The Sears Marine battery is a group 34 which is physically slightly smaller than the Interstate, BUT has essentially the same power rating. Cost was $200 each. I purchased from Sears because it was just easier (locations everywhere) even if more expensive (didn’t price shop). I considered Sears largest Platinum Marine battery but its form factor was almost an interference fit in the battery compartment; was do-able but would have been a bitch to R&R and was about $50 each more expensive.

[UAPachyderm]

Originally Posted by Wabbiteer

Be proactively watchful with specifications of your converter versus the AGM requirements - - - they may not be complimentary.

Thanks ... This is an example of why I'm unsure about making a decision without knowing for certain I'm getting the proper replacement.

[2airishuman]

IF the stream still has the oem p'lax 73xx series charger...

it will work FINE with agms.

it's basically a single stage charger but again will work fine.

there are long threads that debate this issue.

IF the converter craps out soon,

simply replace it with a modern/intelligent/multistage charger.

long threads on those too.

i used the oem p'lax charger with agm batteries 4 four years,

and without issues till the charger died (unrelated cause)...

the factory still uses the P'lax when they install agms in NEW streams.

it's not the perfect/primo mating but works fine and won't harm the agms.
__________

IF you don't wanna get confused, replace the battiers with group 24s...

it's that simple.

flooded wet cell vs agm is another issue.

why exactly do you THINK u want agms?

cheers
2air'

[UAPachyderm]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

IF the stream still has the oem p'lax 73xx series charger...

it will work FINE with agms.

it's basically a single stage charger but again will work fine.

there are long threads that debate this issue.

IF the converter craps out soon,

simply replace it with a modern/intelligent/multistage charger.

long threads on those too.

i used the oem p'lax charger with agm batteries 4 four years,

and without issues till the charger died (unrelated cause)...

the factory still uses the P'lax when they install agms in NEW streams.

it's not the perfect/primo mating but works fine and won't harm the agms.
__________

IF you don't wanna get confused, replace the battiers with group 24s...

it's that simple.

flooded wet cell vs agm is another issue.

why exactly do you THINK u want agms?

cheers
2air'

2air' ... you have a talent for succinctly answering questions ... and succinctly asking the right questions. I appreciate your help on this.

As to why I THINK I want AGMs, well, my understanding is that AGMs theoretically have the best discharge and recharge efficiency. Also, I perceive that I would rarely discharge them below about 50%, which means they should last a very long time (how I'm concluding that is a longer discussion but I think I'm right). I have a solar panel and I have periods of non-use ... I believe the above factors favor AGMs as well.

As for "needing" versus "wanting" ... I don't really NEED AGMs because I've done fine for 7 years with the current battery type. However, I perceive that there is an economic benefit as well if AGMs last twice as long ... I don't have the inconvenience and expense of making changes as frequently. Also, that extra juice MIGHT save me from cranking the generator in my boxer shorts at 5am on that rare night at Walmart in the dead of winter (yes, I realize this one is a "me" problem not a battery problem ... but I need margin for my many errors).

Just curious, what would you choose to do if you were me? I think you have AGMs. If you'd choose AGMs, is there anything more than "choose Group 24s (probably the Lifeline g24 or Concorde/Sunextender brand/label)" that you think I should concern myself with? Is it really that simple? If so, I'm all in.

At risk of looking like a helpless bonehead, specifically which one of these do you think is the model # for me? I realize I need to confirm dimensions, but I'm just looking for a vote of affirmation from someone who knows more about this than me. http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/rvd...ebatteries.php

I genuinely appreciate your advice and insight. Thank you.

[masseyfarm]

This site has a lot of info to compare batteries. It will take you a while to go thru it, but as a reference, it is worth bookmarking.

How Lead Acid Batteries Work

Hope this will answer most of you questions.

My choice for price and general satisfaction is still the T105's. Size and weight will also determine what you can use in a RV. Stationary banks at remote fixed locations give more options for better quality. More expensive batteries may do better for longer time, BUT, too many things can happen to limit the life of a RV battery - - in MHO.
Dave

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by 28CCD

...Just curious, what would you choose to do if you were me?...

well lets c...

i'd start by giving the 28 footer away and buying a 34.

oh wait, i already did that...

Originally Posted by 28CCD

...is there anything more than "choose Group 24s (probably the Lifeline g24 or Concorde/Sunextender brand/label)" that you think I should concern myself with?

Is it really that simple? If so, I'm all in.

yes it's really that simple.
________

now to complicate things or UNsweep the previous sweeping overly simple content.

keep in mind this info if from just another silly stream owner,

and not from a vendor, juice wizard or any OTHER expert on these topics.

so reject/accept any/all/none of what follows.

1. the original pic doesn't show the entire battery box...

group 27s are just a tad longer (1-2 inches) so IF there is space in the box...

replacing with g27s would boost capacity/reserve ~20 %.

many folks ALTER the battery box with a taller lid so that it can accept 2x6v batteries...

that would NOT be my choice,

but the point is IF you wanna alter the box/space a LOTTA other options become viable.

2. charger, again IF u still have the oem charger and it still works, it will work fine.

every battery maker can provide info on the "ideal" charge profile for their products...

for example, lifeline recommends for most of their 12v agms...

~14.2-4V bulk charge and 13.2-4V float charge (as i recall) ...

the p'lax provides ~13.7-8 V,

so it doesn't FULLY utilize the faster/bulk charge rate that IS a feature of agms...

and it doesn't do the low/slow float thing either.

but the lifeline "ideal" charges noted above are also spec'd at 70 degrees F...

each 20 degrees colder and the general rec' is use 0.5 volts higher,

and each 20 degrees warmer and the charge voltage should ideally DECREASE by 0.5v...

so even the "ideal" profile is fudged for anything BUT 70degrees F.

my unit tends to be full time plugged in when it is COLD, so a float of 13.8 V was pretty good.

and rapid charging (with full hookups) typically happened when it's HOT OUT...

so again, 13.8 V is pretty close to that temperature compensation charge need.

does this make sense?

now that i'm using a multistage charger the batteries get 14+ in bulk stage and 13.4-5 at float.

but they were already 4 years old at the charger upgrade and are now 6 years old,

so it's not clear that they will LIVE longer with the fancy smancy charger.
__________

the point being a NEW charger, as a sometime soon upgrade would be nice, IF switching 2 agms ...

but along with MULTI stage, it really needs to be 'temperature compensated' as well.

IF u wanna provide "ideal" charging to a set of lifelines that function in a W I D E temperature range.
___________

looks like 2x g24 or g27 is gonna run 400-600$...

and new truly intelligent charger is about 1/2 that as an extra.

the solar panel/s have a separate charger,

but IF the stream is plugged in 24/7/365 a new smarter charger isn't a bad idea...
___________

lifeline suggests their agms are good for ~1000 cycles and that many folks get 6-7 years of service.

it's also reported that flooded wet deep cycles are good for ~300-400 cycles.

still thats 2-3 times the money or ~the price of 2-3 sets of flooded wet cells.

many folks report getting only 2-3 years from flooded wet deep cycles.

??is this the 2nd set of batteries in the 04, are those interstates ORIGINAL or replacements??
___________

i like that agms don't require adding water, almost never vent acid/gases and can be mounted in odd positions...

i also like that they REcharge a bit quicker, are less affected by inactivity or temp extremes,

and can be taken a BIT lower at discharge, IF recharged promptly.

just keep in mind that not ALL agms are deep cycle construction...

some agms MARKETED as deep cycle are not made with THICKER plates, the real feature that defined deep cycle...
___________

it really comes down to space available, weight and amp/hour capacity...

and warranty.

concorde MAKES lifelines and also the sunextender.

they have slightly different POSTs and some minor internal differences...

they BOTH come with 1 year FULL replacement warranty,

but the lifelines also come with 5? years of prorated warranty/replacement coverage.
___________

the sears P M DEEP cycle agms batteries (seen in post 6) come with 3 year of replacement warranty...

but they are heavier than g24s OR g27s and with LESS capacity than either lifeline version...

and it doesn't appear ANY of the sears offering are exactly g24 or g27 size/standards...

for some that capacity issue may not matter, for others the warranty may matter more.
____________

my assumption early in this thread was U wanted simple/clear replacement info...

WITHOUT altering the space, wiring or debating the 6v vs 12v thing.

if that's true, simply buy 2 x g24 or 2 x g27 IF they will fit.

and start shopping/reviewing the smarter charger multistage gizmos.

cheers
2air'

[UAPachyderm]

2air,

I plan on keeping the 28! LOL

The pictured batteries are set #3. The first set that came with my unit lasted 1 year from purchase. The second and third sets each lasted just under 3 years.

Thanks again for all the detail. You gave me a foundation of understanding on a topic I knew nothing about. I'm going to explore, measure, and evaluate further before pulling the trigger but I think I'm going to work toward this change.

Thanks 2air and to all in this thread for the advice.

Sent from my iPhone using AIR Forums

[UAPachyderm]

2air, last question (at least for 48 hours), I plan to evaluate my chargers per your enlightenment. I assume my solar panel charger is probably ok to stay?

I expect I'll change the other to a smart charger if I'm going to invest in AGMs. I realize I still have lots of measuring and consideration to do. Thanks again for the education.

Sent from my iPhone using AIR Forums

[Steamy1]

If you are replacing your batteries, it is a good time to consider purchasing two (2) 6V Lifeline 220 batteries, and wiring in series. This application has proved to work very well in our applications and has been discussed at length in other threads.

This configuration has proven to offer many advantages. You would have to raise the lid of your battery compartment by about an inch, which is easily done using aluminum channel from a hardware store.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by 28CCD

... I assume my solar panel charger is probably ok to stay?...

well, ah, yeah, maybe....

does it CURRENTLY function ok?

should work exactly the same with new storage tanks (batteries)

IF the sola' was done aftermarket it would be nice to know details...

like brand, model, capacity, features and so on.

the bits a/s uses as oem work, again not top o the line but functional...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f448...tml#post439986

these are typically sized relative to panel OUTPUT,

so as not to limit collection at peak.

the previously big new thing in controllas was maximum power point tracking...

a feature of 'intelligent' solar charge/controllers,

and now adding temperature compensation makes those mppt gizmos smarter too...

it appears your unit didn't come with agms? so the solar must be an after production upgrade?

3 sets of batteries and looking at a 4th set in just 7 years would drive me wacky...

______

cheers
2air'

[UAPachyderm]

Yeah, my small and basic solar works like a charm keeping 12v going. I'm not trying to push power to a bunch of gadgets ... just trying to keep the lights on and the heater working at night. It's aftermarket and I don't have the specs or my Airstream with me right now. The A/S was prewired then I had the Airstream dealership in Alachua, FL put one panel and a controller on.

I didn't know all this intelligent power and temperature stuff existed. I think my plan is to thoroughly map out my options before making the change to AGMs. I want to be sure I do it all the right way ... and now you have me tempted to reconsider my solar situation. Frankly, all this learning and tinkering is much of the fun for me.

BTW, I had a forum username UAPachyderm back in 2008. I didn't post but a few times and then quit visiting the site. Recently they came out with an App for the iPhone so I started reading through the forum again. Initially I forgot that I had once signed up ... then I remembered but couldn't remember my password. Long story short, I'm going to ditch the 28CCD username/account and go back to the UAPachyderm username/account.

[UAPachyderm]

2air, thanks again for all the info. This is my username going forward. I'll be on here much more often now that I can read and post from my iPhone.

[cms4140]

Originally Posted by 28CCD

Long story short, I'm going to ditch the 28CCD username/account and go back to the UAPachyderm username/account.

Please don't. War Eagle!