Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-05-2007, 09:39 PM   #1
3 Rivet Member
 
cosmos's Avatar
 
1965 17' Caravel
Birmingham , Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 173
Images: 8
A look at the 1965 Univolt

Look at this ugly wiring job. Does this look like the way the factory wired the Univolt originally on a 1965 caravel? Wires and wire nuts everywhere. Well, its all low voltage but still it looks like a mess. This univolt still works fine, so I'll look over all the connections and leave it in service for now. The problem at hand now is I have to remove this inner skin because I am replacing the floor. I'm hoping I can remove all the rivets up to the top row and just bend the sheet up enough to get access to the c-channel. I hope the univolt wiring will let me do this. Any thoughts about how I can make this more difficult?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	univolt0.JPG
Views:	91
Size:	166.1 KB
ID:	50417  
__________________

__________________
cosmos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2007, 11:29 PM   #2
Rivet Master
 
FreshAir's Avatar

 
1966 24' Tradewind
Placerville , California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,219
Images: 2
The very, very first thing I did when we got our '66 home for the first time was to chuck the Univolt. Replaced it with an IntelliPower with the Wizard. Smart move I say.
__________________

__________________
Neil and Lynn Holman
FreshAir #12407

Avatar;
1969 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight
4 door hardtop.


1966 Airstream Trade Wind.












1966 Trade Wind

1971 Buick Centurion convertible
455 cid

1969 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight
455 cid
FreshAir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2007, 11:33 PM   #3
4 Rivet Member
 
Darol Ingalls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 411
That's factory! Your photo is of the distribution box. You do not have a Univolt, but a two stage transformer located behind the wheel well. It converts 120VAC to 12VAC and 19VAC. The 12VAC runs the lighting circuit and the 19VAC runs the fans and water pump. Don't ask how it works, but it does. The distribution box has the "city" and "battery" switches. The rats' nest of wires include 12VDC charge/battery (blue), gounds (white), 12v+ (black), and a hot wire for the emergency breakaway switch (maybe yellow, maybe red, maybe orange). Inside the box, all the grounds come together in a clamp that may work loose over time. Check that before anything else if you have blinking lights or the pump sputters. Be grateful you have a Caravel -on any larger trailer, Airstream usually hid all this behind the fridge. Darol
__________________
Darol Ingalls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 12:38 AM   #4
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
Boise , Idaho
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 956
Images: 21
My god that made me laugh! Not sure if anybody else read it with the accent but I sure did. I'll be in Alabama/Florida for a week or so over the holidays but can't remember for the life of me where Pelham is...Seems like Birmingham just a little south. Meet me along I65 south and I'll gladly look at it and agree you got a mess if that will help. Flying into Birmingham the 23rd.
__________________
Randy 208-514-8950
www.bestconverter.com
rvtirepressure.com
68 Overlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 05:58 AM   #5
Rivet Master
 
Zeppelinium's Avatar

 
1975 31' Sovereign
1973 27' Overlander
1977 23' Safari
Palmer Lake , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,831
Send a message via Skype™ to Zeppelinium
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmos
... I have to remove this inner skin because I am replacing the floor. I'm hoping I can remove all the rivets up to the top row and just bend the sheet up enough to get access to the c-channel. I hope the univolt wiring will let me do this. ...
Cosmos,

Bad idea, partly. You can't "roll up" the skins in the curved sections of the wall. It won't take much to remove that top row of rivets and the payback in reduced effort at the C channel will be zillions.

Darol,

If that power converter is a two-output transformer, where does the DC come from and are the fans and pump motor spec'd at 19V? Can this whole mess be converted to 12VDC?

Zep
Zeppelinium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 07:50 AM   #6
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,005
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
Cosmos,

Bad idea, partly. You can't "roll up" the skins in the curved sections of the wall. It won't take much to remove that top row of rivets and the payback in reduced effort at the C channel will be zillions.

Darol,

If that power converter is a two-output transformer, where does the DC come from and are the fans and pump motor spec'd at 19V? Can this whole mess be converted to 12VDC?

Zep
12 volts AC or DC, doesn't matter to a light bulb.

But what kind of voltage, AC or DC, does matter to a motor.

19 volts AC, to the fan motors, is the same effective voltage as 12 volts DC.

To make the conversion from the original 12 volt AC and 19 volt AC transformer outputs, to a true univolt takes less than 30 minutes.

If you install a separate fuse panel for the univolt output, then add another 30 minutes.

That transformer setup is where the original name of "Univolt" came from.

It was first used in the 1964 models, and then again in 1965, but only in the Caravel (17 foot) model.

Andy
__________________
Andy Rogozinski
Inland RV Center
Corona, CA
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 08:35 AM   #7
Rivet Master
 
GreatPumpkin's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Colville , Washington
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,034
Images: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
12 volts AC or DC, doesn't matter to a light bulb.

But what kind of voltage, AC or DC, does matter to a motor.

19 volts AC, to the fan motors, is the same effective voltage as 12 volts DC.

/snip/
Andy
Ditto what he said - with an addendum. The fans work fine, however, the new Shur Flo water pump does NOT like the 19 VAC. It makes noise, but does not work on AC. I didn't try the old PAR pump on 19 VAC, but I assume it probably ran fine.

JB
__________________
AIR 12256
Currently Looking
2001 Dodge Ram 1500
2001 Honda XR650R
Currently Looking...for an Avion Truck Camper (or a Classic Argosy MoHo)

"In regione caecorum rex est luscus." GP
GreatPumpkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 08:41 AM   #8
Rivet Master
 
Zeppelinium's Avatar

 
1975 31' Sovereign
1973 27' Overlander
1977 23' Safari
Palmer Lake , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,831
Send a message via Skype™ to Zeppelinium
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
...19 volts AC, to the fan motors, is the same effective voltage as 12 volts DC....
Andy,

You're hurtin' my head, as usual. AC voltage is usually given as an RMS value, which would make 19 VAC a lot more forceful than 12 VDC. I'm guessing that that 19 volt number is peak, not RMS. 'Course, none of this makes sense....unless there's something about an AC/DC motor that requires more push in the AC.

Zep
Zeppelinium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 08:47 AM   #9
3 Rivet Member
 
cosmos's Avatar
 
1965 17' Caravel
Birmingham , Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 173
Images: 8
a look at the 1965 "Univolt"

Thanks for all the good replies. Darol’s description of this “Univolt” as a switchbox is exactly right. The nameplate says “Univolt” but inside it has just toggle switches and circuit breakers. It has battery connections but it doesn’t charge the battery except thru the pigtail. I’m going to keep it. Darol’s identification of the wire colors and their functions is a big help.

For Zep’s question, 110 AC runs from the breaker box to a transformer. Out come a 19-volt AC and a 12-volt AC wire. Those two wires go to this simple “univolt” and the switches simply allow the choice this AC or the battery DC. The motors accept AC or DC. But 12 volts AC alternates and doesn’t have the constant push of 12 volts DC for the AC/DC motor. And while light bulbs don’t care about the variation of AC, motors need the boost from 12 to 19 volts to give roughly the same performance.

Also, Zep, thanks for offering to stop by. I’ll be traveling too at that time so unfortunately we’ll miss each other. Pelham, by the way is indeed just south of Birmingham, y’all. OH, this simple “Univolt” still works fine, I was just wondering if all the wires sticking out like this was “original” or not. And thanks for the advise for just removing the skin rather than trying to roll it up. I’ll do that and save some swearing for another project.
__________________
cosmos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 09:28 AM   #10
4 Rivet Member
 
Darol Ingalls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 411
The '66 Caravel I'm currently working on also has the 12/19 vac transformer. It will be replaced by an Intellipower unit to provide the correct 12vdc power to fans and pump as well as to charge the battery when connected to "city" power. The first one of these I ran into was on a '65 Caravel. It had the owner's manual with a wiring diagram and a short note about the 12V/19V circuits. I called Airstream and asked to speak with the oldest person in the repair shop for further information. They couldn't find anyone who was around in '65 or an owner's manual that old, but they assured me that a system like that "just could not work." That was good for a laugh! Darol
__________________
Darol Ingalls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 09:45 AM   #11
Moderator
 
azflycaster's Avatar
 
1975 25' Tradewind
Dewey , Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,991
Images: 63
Blog Entries: 1
The good news is that the VAC has a pdf version of the 65 owners manual in it's library. Here is the diagram of the power distribution.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	65car.jpg
Views:	287
Size:	23.5 KB
ID:	50427  
__________________
Richard
Charter Member Four Corners Unit
azflycaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 11:05 AM   #12
3 Rivet Member
 
cosmos's Avatar
 
1965 17' Caravel
Birmingham , Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 173
Images: 8
The 1965 caravel univolt

LOL Darol, the old timers didn't have micro-chips and computer circuits to confuse them like the younger engineers do now. I guess there must be something different, heavy duty or expensive about a motor built to run on both AC and DC and maybe the modern motors aren't made like this. That would explain the pump note above. On a positive note, I suppose that if you have shore power you usually have city water, too, so an AC pump isn't needed.

As far as the wiring diagram, thank you! I actually received an original 1965 owners manual with my coach! Complete with the original lifetime guaranty certificate to the original owner!

The only thing I don't see in the diagram is the wiring to the breakaway switch. It seems a little strange to run these wires all the way back to the univolt, but then again, this is where the battery was placed.
__________________
cosmos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 11:08 AM   #13
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,005
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
Andy,

You're hurtin' my head, as usual. AC voltage is usually given as an RMS value, which would make 19 VAC a lot more forceful than 12 VDC. I'm guessing that that 19 volt number is peak, not RMS. 'Course, none of this makes sense....unless there's something about an AC/DC motor that requires more push in the AC.

Zep
Zep

Sorry, but the 19 volts AC is RMS, which is 26.86 peak and 53.72 peak to peak.

The 19 volts AC voltage will make the fan motors that "AIRSTREAM" uses, work about the same as 12 volts DC. That does not apply to "every" type DC motor.

What makes sense, is if you take peak AC voltage times .70711,then you get the effective voltage.

If we take 19 volts AC tmes the same .70711, then we get 13.43 volts, which approximates the 12 volts DC.

Checking the RPM of the fan motor that Airstream uses,on both 12 volts DC and then on 19 volts AC, will be about the same.

The fan motor that Aistream uses is "series wound", meaning the armature and field are wired in series, and the motor has brushes that ride on the commutator, which is the primary cause for the Airstream fan motors to give out.

Since that motor is series wound, it can be taken apart, to reverse the wire connections on either the field or armature, to reverse the diection of armature rotation.

On occasion, some owners want to circulate considerable outside air through the trailer.

That is easily done by reversing the direction of rotation of one motor. That motor/fan assembly is then used to suck air into the trailer, say at the front or rear of the trailer, and at the opposite end of the trailer, the fan motor runs normally, to exhaust the air.

Of course when the fan motor is wired in reverse, the fan blade is simply turned upside down.

Works like a champ.

A setup like this has a huge positive effect on, ahem, bad cooking odors.

Andy
__________________
Andy Rogozinski
Inland RV Center
Corona, CA
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 12:40 PM   #14
3 Rivet Member
 
cosmos's Avatar
 
1965 17' Caravel
Birmingham , Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 173
Images: 8
Univolt

Andy, that was a great explaination, complete with the arithmatic. Thanks!
__________________

__________________
cosmos is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Replacing my Univolt in my 1965 Caravel toastie Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 10 04-29-2008 08:55 PM
Almost done with our 1965 Caravel toastie Member Introductions 31 12-30-2007 06:37 PM
1965 Ambassador tbrom 1966 - 1969 Ambassador 9 06-04-2007 10:50 AM
A/C for a 1965 Caravel toastie Furnaces, Heaters, Fireplaces & Air Conditioning 9 08-21-2006 08:32 PM
1965 Tradewind davja 1959-69 Tradewind 15 09-01-2004 10:02 AM





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.
Modal Click