12V Interstate Batteries to 2 Lifeline 6V AGM

[ATownTX]

Got it. thanks, Lewster!!

Originally Posted by lewster

I almost always remove the lower tray when installing Lifeline GPL series golf cart batteries. There really is no need for the tray if you properly secure the batteries with the screw rod.

I also use a larger aluminum plate between the screw knob and the batteries for more contact area.

[MarkJUrban]

Ok, 4 months later... I haven't touched the airstream since this project was completed. My wife is expecting and we are in lockdown this spring.

Anyway... batteries are now dead (store mode). Which I expected. In hindsight I should have unhooked the terminals. However, I'm glad they are dead. I can now test out the new charger...

But when I plug in shore power(120)... nothing, not even direct power. When I flip to (use mode) no orange ight And, it didn't charge the batteries. I'm glad I didn't go anywhere without testing.

So now I am in trouble shooting mode. Any thoughts on where to begin?

[MarkJUrban]

Got lucky, pulled off the cover and noticed a loose wire. I used the connectors that were available, I thought it could have been connect better... The yellow cap contained the loose wire.

[lewster]

Originally Posted by MarkJUrban

Got lucky, pulled off the cover and noticed a loose wire. I used the connectors that were available, I thought it could have been connect better... The yellow cap contained the loose wire.

Attachment 286441

Airstream has been using that wire nut connection for some time. It joins the hot lead from your converter with the hot lead to the bedroom circuit and a jumper that leads to the breaker. VERY POOR DESIGN!!!!!!

First, wire nuts should never be used in a mobile situation (specifically prohibited in boats) and second, splices of any kind within a panel board (breaker box) is specifically discouraged and also not acceptable in the marine environment.

You should unplug and be certain that your panel board is completely de-energized, remove the wire nut, mechanically twist the 3 wires present together and then replace the nut as tightly as possible. Lineman's pliers will help here.

In addition, after tightening the wire nut, I would definitely tape it in the direction of tightening to provide a secondary bond, running the tape over the nut and the wires about an inch down.

While you're in your panel board, it's always a good idea to re-tighten all of the screws holding the neutral and ground wires along with those on the actual breakers, I have found some unacceptably loose at times and it's well worth the time to be certain that you have tight, clean connections.

[MarkJUrban]

Thanks Lew! Will do, and I also appreciate the "de-energize" tip. I would have been that guy!

[carl2591]

the thing that drains batteries in store mode is the propane detector, which during storage can be de-energized cuz you SHOULD have turned off propane tanks so you dont need propane detection.

I move the wire that powers detector from in front of shut off switch to behind that switch to prevent battery drain. Or you can just find the fuse and undo that.

What will be interesting to see is how the AGM like being drain competently down. If like the lead acid, which i believe they are very similar in some respect, do NOT like a compile discharged.. it may reduce life of battery over time. Maybe Lew will chime in here with more info on that..

congrats on upcoming event you think you are on lock down now

Originally Posted by MarkJUrban

Ok, 4 months later... I haven't touched the airstream since this project was completed. My wife is expecting and we are in lockdown this spring.

Anyway... batteries are now dead (store mode). Which I expected. In hindsight I should have unhooked the terminals. However, I'm glad they are dead. I can now test out the new charger...

But when I plug in shore power(120)... nothing, not even direct power. When I flip to (use mode) no orange ight And, it didn't charge the batteries. I'm glad I didn't go anywhere without testing.

So now I am in trouble shooting mode. Any thoughts on where to begin?

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by lewster

Airstream has been using that wire nut connection for some time. It joins the hot lead from your converter with the hot lead to the bedroom circuit and a jumper that leads to the breaker. VERY POOR DESIGN!!!!!!

First, wire nuts should never be used in a mobile situation (specifically prohibited in boats) and second, splices of any kind within a panel board (breaker box) is specifically discouraged and also not acceptable in the marine environment.

You should unplug and be certain that your panel board is completely de-energized, remove the wire nut, mechanically twist the 3 wires present together and then replace the nut as tightly as possible. Lineman's pliers will help here.

In addition, after tightening the wire nut, I would definitely tape it in the direction of tightening to provide a secondary bond, running the tape over the nut and the wires about an inch down.

While you're in your panel board, it's always a good idea to re-tighten all of the screws holding the neutral and ground wires along with those on the actual breakers, I have found some unacceptably loose at times and it's well worth the time to be certain that you have tight, clean connections.

I thought that was strange too when I was swapping out my charger with the PD 4655. Thought about using this, Morris 97624 Morris Products 97624 Multi-Cable Insulated Connector, Black, Dual Entry Connector Type, 3 Ports, 2 - 14 Wire Range, Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UKGG0C6..._3VxlzbF4KK9M4.

[hshovic]

I did the 6 v changeover nine years ago. I just installed the second set of 6v. They lasted eight years and 100,000 miles.

My concerns were similar. Discharge rate: However, sitting in the shed, I found the batteries lost only 0.1 volt per month, even with the propane detector left on. Not sure why others have higher losses.

Discharging Batteries: I was very concerned about this, so monitored voltage during use using the solar indicator (when sun not out), and never allowed the batteries below 50% charge, even in cold weather. Never had a problem, other than voltage goes down with temperature, so the Airstream indicator sometimes showed yellow in cold weather.

I have heard (and believe) that modern batteries will lose significant potential with EVEN ONE full discharge.

I have a sports car that somehow burns batteries. They discharge in the winter all by their lonesomes. Once discharged fully, they never recover, and I take the battery in for another one on warrantee. I am smarter now, and have a trickle charger.

Here is a link to my Airstream installation: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...tml#post514373

[Cispook]

Originally Posted by OvertheHills

Mark, my wife and I recently purchased a 2017 and upgraded to two 6v deep cycle flooded batteries w 200 watts of solar (very nice for dry camping). In addition I ordered a progressive dynamics PD4655v on line. This converter is multistage and will automatically reduce the charge as the batteries reach their maximum charge. While I am not an electrician, I was able to install install it without any problems. Very straight forward.

-Overthehills

Did the dealer complete this upgrade? I'm curious about any impact on the AS warranty?

[Cispook]

Originally Posted by lewster

C-H-I-N-A !!!

Lewster- you have a preference for 2017 models?

[bullet661]

Just a heads up. Sorry if this was already covered in this thread or somewhere else. The Lifeline 6V GPL-4CT batteries mentioned in this thread fit in 2016 and newer coaches without modification. 2015 and older battery boxes are just under 10" deep and the batteries are 9.92" high. I think 8 hundredths of an inch is a little too close for comfort with a metal lid.

[Kittycatcat]

Hi - just spent hours across several days researching batteries and chargers here and elsewhere. Now my head is exploding. This thread seems to be the most recent/helpful/relevant so far. (Thank you all.)

Still not confident on right choices. The OEM Interstate batteries on our 30 amp 2016 FC 27 bought 5/2016 weren't holding a charge; local RV place replaced 1 battery & said all else fine. Soon after, batteries draining way too fast on a trip. Got home, plugged in trailer, couple of days later batteries boiled. Now they're pretty much gone.

So, we're now looking at AGM (Lifeline?) batteries plus multi-stage charger (inverter? converter?).

Does anyone please have advice on the best charger for our 30 amp trailer - saw both Progressive 9200 series and 4655 recommended. Also saw Boondocker Smart charger; Magnum ($$$$$$) and a few others.

Also want a pro to do install just to make sure proper wiring We figure to buy the batteries/charger online and pay the labor at a shop, hopefully.

Does this sound reasonable? Thank you so much for any help. And apologies for long post.

[Kittycatcat]

OK, I think I've got it.
This should work:

- Progressive 4655V 55 Amp with remote
- 2 GPL-4CT Lifeline AGM 6-volt batteries (wire in series + to -, not parallel)
- Also heavier gauge wire 2/0 or 4/0

I read this entire thread at least 3 times over. It's beginning to clarify and my head may not explode after all.

I found good prices on bestconverter.com - less than Amazon, even with bestconverter's shipping charge.

Anyone familiar with bestconverter?

Thanks to all who provided so much information!

[lewster]

Originally Posted by Cispook

Lewster- you have a preference for 2017 models?

Howdy! Been a while since I have been on the Forums!

Of the 2017 models, I would go with the 27' or 30' unit. Nice size, well designed and ready for LOTS of improvements.

Just my take on the whole scenario!!!!

[DaveP]

Kittycatcat,

Sounds like you are making the right choices.

Randy at bestconverter.com is a stand up guy. His prices are good, he knows his products and his service is great. I have purchased Lifeline batteries from him and a Progressive Industries power protector (which you should also install in your trailer).

[uncle_bob]

Hi

A lot of people go looking for a "magic bullet" for batteries. The simple answer is that there is no magic bullet. You can do this and that and get 5% or 10% here or there. The real answer is to change the way you *use* the batteries. That can make an enormous difference in how well they do.

People love to blame this or that gizmo for problems. Random failures do occur. They happen with cheap stuff, they happen with expensive stuff. They happen a lot less often than failures from doing things wrong. Batteries (especially lead acid) do not like heavy discharge. The don't last long if you do. It's amazingly easy to come up with a load that will flatten any battery setup quite quickly. Know your loads and manage them ....

Bob

[Kittycatcat]

Originally Posted by DaveP

Kittycatcat,

Sounds like you are making the right choices.

Randy at bestconverter.com is a stand up guy. His prices are good, he knows his products and his service is great. I have purchased Lifeline batteries from him and a Progressive Industries power protector (which you should also install in your trailer).

Thank you for your input! (And thanks to the fellow member who PM'd me with info)

Well, turns out compromise is part of marriage (who knew? ) - so we're getting the Progressive charger with remote and sticking with old-time flooded batteries for now.

At least if we have more "user-errors" we'll fry cheaper batteries. LOL

[Mattirs]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

A lot of people go looking for a "magic bullet" for batteries. The simple answer is that there is no magic bullet. You can do this and that and get 5% or 10% here or there. The real answer is to change the way you *use* the batteries. That can make an enormous difference in how well they do.

People love to blame this or that gizmo for problems. Random failures do occur. They happen with cheap stuff, they happen with expensive stuff. They happen a lot less often than failures from doing things wrong. Batteries (especially lead acid) do not like heavy discharge. The don't last long if you do. It's amazingly easy to come up with a load that will flatten any battery setup quite quickly. Know your loads and manage them ....

Bob

in other words it is cheaper to conserve than to build capacity.

[carl2591]

these batteries that lasted 8 yrs and 100K miles, were the flooded lead acid or AGM batteries.. what charger you use, 3 or 4 stage "smart" charger?

Originally Posted by hshovic

I did the 6 v changeover nine years ago. I just installed the second set of 6v. They lasted eight years and 100,000 miles.

My concerns were similar. Discharge rate: However, sitting in the shed, I found the batteries lost only 0.1 volt per month, even with the propane detector left on. Not sure why others have higher losses.

Discharging Batteries: I was very concerned about this, so monitored voltage during use using the solar indicator (when sun not out), and never allowed the batteries below 50% charge, even in cold weather. Never had a problem, other than voltage goes down with temperature, so the Airstream indicator sometimes showed yellow in cold weather.

I have heard (and believe) that modern batteries will lose significant potential with EVEN ONE full discharge.

I have a sports car that somehow burns batteries. They discharge in the winter all by their lonesomes. Once discharged fully, they never recover, and I take the battery in for another one on warrantee. I am smarter now, and have a trickle charger.

Here is a link to my Airstream installation: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...tml#post514373

[uncle_bob]

Hi

None of the normal lead acid battery types will last 8 years at a reasonable capacity level on average. There is no magic charger that will make that happen. Yes this assumes you are out using the batteries the way we normally do. Wth no use, they last a while. A battery *may* still start a car eight or ten years later. It doesn't take a lot to do that.

There is no single definition of "dead". Batteries usually do not go "shorted cell". They simply loose capacity over time. Is 50% capacity ok for you? Is 20% "still working"? Do you need 80% of the original capacity? Answering 80% vs 20% has a "many years" impact.

Do you live in the hot dry part of the country? Do you check fluid levels? If you live in the cold (and right now wet) part of the country you may never do that. Do you rarely go below 80% battery capacity? Do you trickle charge in storage? Do you ever charge a battery when it's 120F after being out in the sun? Do you average running on batteries four times a year or four times a week? Details of battery usage and maintenance matter a lot. You can kill then in under a year *very* easily.

Not all batteries are created equal. Some manufacturers do a bit better than others. Not all batteries from the same outfit are made the same way. A lot of companies make multiple lines with varying level of performance. There are compromises. A bigger fluid reservoir above the plates probably increases reliability, but reduces capacity.

If you want to put money in a charger, get one that reads the temperature of the batteries. Compensating for a very hot or very cold battery will do more to extend their life than any other feature on a charger.

Batteries are highly variable in terms of self discharge. They slowly go dead just sitting there. Lead acid batteries are not particularly great in this respect. The better manufacturers actually spec the discharge rates. In some cases the numbers are pretty scary. Hint: Do not look at the spec numbers on Trojan T-105's ... they are scary .... Good batteries, but scary self discharge specs ...

Lots of variables !!

Bob