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Old 02-19-2007, 09:21 AM   #15
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Keep in mind that the 1000 doesn't power the factory supplied Microwave (even at low power setting)....to some that is an issue. For my needs though, it's a non-issue. I like playing music and with the newly installed sub I put in, the 2 batteries can quickly discharge, so having the gen in my setup works great because I only want to charge the batteries and maybe run both fans on high (no air conditioner).

If you have any thought to running the factory supplied microwave, then the 2000 or higher is your beast. I perfer the propane converted unit (either brand, Yamaha- which I have, or Honda, which is also great) because in my case, I want to haul the gen in the back of the Suburban. No gasoline fumes, etc and stores very cleanly without residual odors (gasoline, etc).
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Old 02-19-2007, 10:32 AM   #16
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Rodney,

I bought the Yamaha ef2400is - the tri-fuel version even though I doubt I'll ever have a chance at the natural gas ability. But it didn't cost anything, so what the heck.

It is a good size for me. I can lift it in and out of my pickup if I am alone. It will run my a/c, but my unit is a 11k unit. There seems to be some doubt as to whether it will handle the 13.5, but I am not sure it will not. I also do not believe the 10-15% reduction in power when you convert from gas to propane is strictly correct.

I like the machine a lot. It is easy to start whether you are using gas or propane. Be sure and order the propane hose and quick-release fittings (easier to get it from them than to chase the parts yourself.)

As for the company, I think they are straight folks, but they don't communicate very well. I ordered my unit last March (I think) and did not get it until June. As I was getting ready to leave on my AK trip 7/15, I was getting real antsy. My calls to the company were either answered casually (they told me what they think I wanted to hear rather than what I needed to hear) and then did not call back at all. I would have cancelled my order if there had been any other choice. You can imagine my relief when I was finally notified it was shipping. And it came well protected and exactly as I had ordered it.

So - if there had to one thing I have to be less than pleased about, I'm glad it was weak communication.

Be glad to share more if you would like.

Pat
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Old 02-19-2007, 10:36 AM   #17
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Pat, I couldn't agree more.
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Old 02-20-2007, 10:56 AM   #18
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Exclamation Trigger pulled......

I just ordered the EF 2400is with the remote start option a few minutes ago. I debated going with a smaller unit in consideration of the question about being able to run the AC, In the end I decided it might be better to have the extra capacity whether or not the generator would run the AC. I also got the remote starter unit. They promised delivery in 2-3 weeks from today. I will keep everyone posted on how US Carb does on getting the unit here in time and on how the unit performs.
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Old 02-20-2007, 11:08 AM   #19
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I was told that you will not lose 10% with a Honda EU series on propane. That is because of the way it is designed to work. It simply throttles up it's speed when it needs more alternator output. A standard generator has to run at 3600 RPM or 1800 RPM so it throttles up and maintains RPM. A Honda EU does not have this limitation, it can speed up to, I think 4500 RPM if need be. This does not give you a license to overload the unit, though.

I have started my 13,500 BTU Coleman with a single EU2000i, but it was in the high 70's when I did it. Try it when it is 90+ out and you will pop the breaker on startup. I would not run the A/C for more than 20 minutes if you do get it to start.
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Old 02-20-2007, 11:25 AM   #20
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Congrats, Rodney. I think you will be happy with it.

Pat
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Old 02-20-2007, 11:25 AM   #21
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does anyone know?

For me, the AC issue while interesting is peripheral. I decided the extra power would be nice if I ever needed to run power tools or the like. I am curious though. When starting up the AC, does it make any difference if it is set a higher temp setting on start, then moved down, or is the electrical demand the same to get the compressor going the same regardless?

Said another way; is the electric demand constant regardless of temp setting with the only difference being cycle time during cooling phases?
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:09 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen Disarray
For me, the AC issue while interesting is peripheral. I decided the extra power would be nice if I ever needed to run power tools or the like. I am curious though. When starting up the AC, does it make any difference if it is set a higher temp setting on start, then moved down, or is the electrical demand the same to get the compressor going the same regardless?

Said another way; is the electric demand constant regardless of temp setting with the only difference being cycle time during cooling phases?
Your 2nd statement is most correct. However, the main problem with running the A/C on a small generator is during the starting of the A/C. Starting current (amps) is 5 to 7 times greater than running current. Its a huge load thrown at the generator all at once. This causes the generator to slow down some and that compounds the problem as the current flow will increase even more. The protective devices, circuit breakers and such, have a race to see which one reacts first. If they do not react fast enough, the usual result is a destroyed A/C motor. You can actually hear this - the loud hum during starting of the A/C.
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:17 PM   #23
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Congrats....you'll be happy with it...I'm happy with mine.

As for the 10%, the Yamaha works the same way as the Honda. I have not observed any loss with it so far as well.
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Old 02-20-2007, 02:54 PM   #24
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Did a lot of searching before buying a Yamaha EF2800i. The YF is Yamaha's "home use" line. They make a corresponding YF line for most models with is the "industrial" line. Cost is about the same. The differences are, 1) the EF line has a two year warranty and the YF only a one year, 2) the YF has GFI circuit portection. The number like 2400 or 2800 is the peak, not the continuous power output. The continuous power output will be ~200 watts less. The "i" at the end of the Yamaha designation stands for "inverter". The inverter type generators are more expensive but provide much cleaner power (required for computers and just about everything including microwaves now days has a computer built in). The inverter is supposed result in a weight savings and certainly seems to allow smaller packaging. The big advantage of the inverter is the output voltage isn't tied to rpm so it can throttle way back under low loads which saves gas and is MUCH quieter. It also helps at the high end of rated power since it can rev higher when more power is needed; particularly in situations like startup current for refrigerators or AC units.

I haven't been able to determine if the AC on my '78 Argosy 24 is 11,000 or 13,500 BTU. I do know it was marginal on a 15amp household circuit (albeit with an extension cord). Anyway, reports here and on RV.net reported mixed success with the 2400 powering the AC so I opted for the 2800. It has NO PROBLEM what so ever.

I have yet to convert mine to Propane. What I've heard from everyone that's actually done it is there is NO power loss going to propane. Propane doesn't have the energy density of gasoline but gasoline doesn't vaporize very efficiently. That's why cars now days have EFI instead of carburetors and carburetors on high performance engines are way more complicated than the lawnmower unit on a generator. Also, a carburetor is jetted for one altitude, pressure and humidity. The secondary regulator on a propane conversion allows you to optimize the gas delivery for conditions. So if you're at 5,000 feet at extreme temperatures (either hot or cold) it's likely the propane will out perform gasoline. The folks in the know that do the conversion tell me the only loss of power would be with the tri-fuel conversion and then only at or near full throttle operation. This is because the gas delivery is via an adapter ring that fits on the inlet of the carb has has the effect of a restrictor plate. The propane only conversion replaces the gas jet with a larger jet for propane and no loss of power. Again, everyone I've heard from that's actually done the conversion reports no loss of power and pretty much a 1:1 conversion from gallons of propane used to gallons of gas.

I can tell you from personal experience that carrying gasoline around stinks, literally! Also if you're area is hit by a wide spread power outage there's a good chance gasoline stations that are operating will be far and few between, have exceedingly long lines and will likely run out of fuel. You'll live your life waiting in gas lines and then live with the stench in you car for days to follow. You're also limited to the run time of your tank which means powering everything off and refilling once or twice a day.

As for noise the EF2800 is louder than an EU2000. I don't have any larger units to compare to. The EF2800 is also an "open frame" design. The 2400 with it's sound deadening shroud should be quieter. Noise wasn't really a problem. With the generator outside our front window you could only hear it when the RPM kicked up like when the refrigerator turned on. Neighbors generators made WAY more noise than our little Yamaha.

-Bernie
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Old 02-20-2007, 11:56 PM   #25
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Quote:
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...The folks in the know that do the conversion tell me the only loss of power would be with the tri-fuel conversion and then only at or near full throttle operation. This is because the gas delivery is via an adapter ring that fits on the inlet of the carb has has the effect of a restrictor plate. The propane only conversion replaces the gas jet with a larger jet for propane and no loss of power. Again, everyone I've heard from that's actually done the conversion reports no loss of power and pretty much a 1:1 conversion from gallons of propane used to gallons of gas.
-Bernie
Whoops! I didn't realize the propane conversion and the tri-fuel conversion were two different things. So a propane conversion unit will not also run alternatively on gasoline? That might be more restrictive than I want to go.
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Old 02-21-2007, 06:09 AM   #26
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Quote:
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Whoops! I didn't realize the propane conversion and the tri-fuel conversion were two different things. So a propane conversion unit will not also run alternatively on gasoline? That might be more restrictive than I want to go.
Cam, if you go to the website for US Carb, you will see a tri-fuel option for propane, natural gas, and gasoline. The other conversion they offer is for natural gas and propane but not gasoline. When people speak about the propane converted models they are normally refering to the trifuel.
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Old 02-21-2007, 06:47 AM   #27
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I am still looking and reading but a couple of points to consider: 1) There are hard start kits (capacitor) to reduce the start load of the AC compressor and once it is running the load is less. 2) Yamaha claims that it has a brief start up load capacity of over 3000 watts for a few seconds and 2400 watts for up to 20 minuets. I am thinking that the 2400 and a hard start kit on the AC that it may work and once its running it should be able to keep up?
Anyone have experience with a hard start kit?
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Old 02-21-2007, 06:55 AM   #28
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I am still looking and reading but a couple of points to consider: 1) There are hard start kits (capacitor) to reduce the start load of the AC compressor and once it is running the load is less. 2) Yamaha claims that it has a brief start up load capacity of over 3000 watts for a few seconds and 2400 watts for up to 20 minuets. I am thinking that the 2400 and a hard start kit on the AC that it may work and once its running it should be able to keep up?
Anyone have experience with a hard start kit?
I have never heard of a hard start kit but it sounds interesting, Do you know a source or have any information on the kits?
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