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Old 12-25-2008, 09:32 PM   #29
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Robert,

Sorry to hear of your problems. I have experience only with my own Honda EU3000is and a conversion to dual-fuel propane/gasoline I made about 6 years ago using a kit from Carbturbo.com. I remember setup took longer than I expected but following the instructions I was given it worked well.

Looking at your pictures, I noticed that the vapor propane line from your zero governor to the adapter is much longer, and may be a smaller ID, than the tubing I was given with my kit. My installation manual mentioned that it was important to keep that final vapor hose to the adapter as short as possible.

You may find this instruction manual from CarbTurbo useful, as it gives information regarding several types of propane conversions, as well as setup, adjustment and first-operation of propane conversions:

http://www.carbturbo.com/installation.pdf

On my system, my high-pressure propane regulator delivering low-pressure propane to the zero-governor was delivering too high pressure. I had problems getting the genset to run until I discovered this. It is not a setting that can be estimated by comparison to the flow to a grille. I borrowed a gas manometer and set the regulator output pressure to 11 inches water column as recommended by the Garretson zero-governor manual and this cleared the problem immediately. You may want to check to see that on your setup this intermediate pressure is where it should be.

As a safety measure, I have a solenoid operated propane valve in-line with my high-pressure regulator, so that it will not deliver propane unless there is a voltage supply, which for the EU3000 comes from either the starter switch in start, or from the DC output of the genset. So if the engine stalls for any reason, the propane shuts off and cannot flow again unless I electric-start the genset, or hold down a momentary-on switch to activate the solenoid, or the genset is actually running and producing 12VDC.

Finally, I know one person who had significant problems with a US Carb system and ended up calling CarbTurbo to ask for help, even though it was not their system. I know they gave him some suggestions which finally helped get his system running for the first time, so that may be an option. They are very friendly and helpful.

Best of luck,
Marshall
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Old 12-26-2008, 10:02 AM   #30
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2000 Honda

Sounds just like mine when I had bad OFF-on switch.Unhook switch.
Also might try spraying starter fluid in the intake.
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Old 12-26-2008, 04:51 PM   #31
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I got the U. S. Carb Propane generator from Yamaha Propane and Natural Gas Generators.

It runs fine if the primer is primed properly. Otherwise you can pull that chain all day.

I did get good tech support, from young, but competent techs.

What no-one can tell me is why the instructions (which were not the best) say you have to keep 1/4 tank of gas in the generator. Something to do with some regulation.
The tech-types did not know, or would not say.
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Old 12-27-2008, 12:48 AM   #32
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Again, thanks to all for your suggestions.

Marshall, the hose diameter 1/4" ID is what US Carb sent me. The kit definitely came with a shorter hose than you see in the photos and that shorter factory hose IS the hose I used prior to this session and the photos. Based on suggestions from Robert Cross about closing the compartment door and getting a crimp in the hose, I bought a longer length in order to configure the setup you see in the photos trying to start it with the cover off. There could be some merit to having too long of a hose but on the other hand prior to this I used the shorter hose that came with the kit; the thought passed through my mind that the longer hose could lower the vacuum pressure that opens the zero-gov. Finally, the link to the instructions you provided gave me at least a better understanding of the system.

Hank, you mention it works fine if "primed properly". I've tried about every variation of priming that I can think of. My uncertainty is what is the right balance of ridding air from the 12' feeder hose between the tank / regulator and the zero-governor? When I connect the hose to the zero-governor I usually give it a few squirts on the primer button until I can hear something in the lines at the genny. I've tried everything from a single press or two, to pressing it until I smell propane. No matter what I do I seem to be "pulling that chain all day"! :-{

Jimini, are you saying unplug the wires to the switch and manually connect / jump them?

All this seems pretty darn fussy/tempermental for a generator that fired and ran on the 2nd or 3rd pull out of the box using gasoline. Seems like it should be a whole lot easier than this but it's obviously not in my case.

I sent US Carb another fax today (they do not seem to respond to emails) and a lady named Dianna in the office called, explained the tech staff is out until Mon or Tues but she also asked me to forward her the four emails I had sent them and a link to the photos. She called again a few hours later to reassure me that someone would be in touch with me after the weekend on Monday or Tuesday. All-told now it's been 45 days since I began this endeavor and I'm pretty frustrated; probably to the point of being blinded by that frustration.

Maybe I'll get the gumption up to try a very short feeder hose like Marshall suggests but I'm on the verge of turning my 50 pound boat anchor generator into a 50 pound Frisbee!

Thanks!

Robert Starling
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Old 12-27-2008, 05:39 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hshovic View Post
What no-one can tell me is why the instructions (which were not the best) say you have to keep 1/4 tank of gas in the generator. Something to do with some regulation.
I believe it is to ensure that no LP flows into an empty gasoline tank, which could be ugly it if it ignited. Yes, there is a gasoline shut-off that should prevent that, but if it isn't fully closed or is leaking, the 1/4 tank would prevent a problem.
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Old 12-27-2008, 01:05 PM   #34
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I hod the primer button about 5 seconds, then it starts. Sounds like that doesn't work for you, so I guess I suspect a bad installation.

Wayne and Sam: Very good point. But there are still gas fumes at saturation in the tank, so that might be ugly too. Maybe not as ugly.
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Old 12-27-2008, 02:09 PM   #35
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Just look at back side of off/on switch If I remember right it is white and green wire?Just unhook at plug this will make switch in on positon. Spray some starter fluid into intake and pull start rope.To stop you will have to take spark plug wire off.My honda 2000 starts on first pull with choke on.
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Old 12-27-2008, 07:06 PM   #36
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Day Four... and thanks again for the suggestions.

Today I shortened the vapor / fuel line between the zero-governor quite a bit; down to about 6-8 inches at most to where it connects to the US Carb fuel line coming out of the carb. Going back through their manual such that it is, there is definitely a comment to keep that line as short as possible. Thanks for pointing me back to that part Marshall.

Here is a link to some new photos showing the shorter hose:

honda_photos

As you can see, it's a temporary test so I just have the cover held in place with a rubber bongo tie. This way I can see and confirm there's no pinch in the line. By the same token I've drilled another hole in the cover; so much for a nice clean installation.

Unfortunately, still nothing more than an occasional sputter / putt putt; not like it is starting and failing but it sort of tries to sputter once in awhile.

I double checked the spark plug gap today as well to make sure it is at the .020 gap and it is.

I'll try the switch disconnect tomorrow but the occasional sputter leads me to think it's getting power but at this point I'm desperate.

About the only thing beyond that is to add gasoline to the tank which something I really really would rather not have to do; the whole reason I bought this genny and this conversion kit was to go totally propane.

Thanks!

Robert
Las Vegas
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:40 AM   #37
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I looked at your photos. How is the propane induced into the carb? I see the black line going over the top of the carb and under the "white thingee". Is there some kind of adapter there?
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:12 PM   #38
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The "white thingy" is some kind of automatic control for the throttle I think maybe related to the "Eco Throttle". FWIW, I'm not trying to start with the Eco Throttle in the on position.

The propane is introduced into the carb via a port under the white thing. That port and the short grey/black hose was installed by US Carb when I sent the carb to them to do the conversion. Some people do this drilling themselves but as you can see I'm not exactly Mr. Goodwrench so I had US Carb do it so I wouldn't have any problems :-} So much for that!
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:35 PM   #39
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Robert,

FWIW.. after looking a your pic's, first thing I would do is use a more flexable supply line. I found I couldn't route the one they supplied without kinks. Used very flexable fuel line from the hobby shop. Try bringing the line off the carb right up behind the aircleaner and connecting the flex line. Make sure your carb is sealed and the fuel cap is turned off.
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:52 PM   #40
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Quote:
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Hi Robert,

Why do you run your gen in a tent? Does it help with noise? Any tricks to that you can share?
Nope... it don't help with noise much at all. Keeps it out of sight and most important dry, can't see running it wet . Only mod done to the tent was a 12" square of innertube glued to the floor, two copper ground straps secured thru the rubber with an 8" patio mat spike and washer. The genset sits on two lengths of 2X4 placed under the tent floor.
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Old 12-28-2008, 05:00 PM   #41
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Day Five

1. Today I double checked all my fittings and connections based on photos I took PRIOR to sending the carb to US Carb when the genny was operating 1st / 2nd pull on gasoline. Everything seems to be in the same place it was other than the gasoline nipple and gasoline fuel line are both capped off and of course US Carb added the propane inlet/hose.

2. I not only double checked the spark plug gap for .020 again but I also tried several larger gaps up to about .030 and a somewhat smaller gap (my gauge only goes to .020)

3. I unplugged the ON/OFF switch to take it out of the equation

4. I tried a larger ID vapor hose between the zero-governor and the carb with larger fittings; that hose was about 12-15" long total.

5. Also double checked that the carburetor bowl drain plug/screw is tight

About the best I can get is maybe a < 1 second sputter if I use full choke and pull once or twice, then open the choke a little. This is inconsistent at best but that is the only pattern I can see.

Robert Cross: I did look for that yellow colored hose you have at two different hobby shops but they only had it in smaller diameters. It sort of looks like you mated some surgical / medical tubing to or over yours in some way? The yellow hose I found at the hobby shops is "Du-Bros" brand I think. However, I'm as positive as I can be that there is no kink in my hose especially with the new shorter hose and the cover panel propped open. If you take a look at my photos I'm pretty much running the same routing as you are. What do you mean by "make sure my carb is sealed" where would I seal it other than the gasoline input nipple?

I think it is beyond time at this point for US Carb to step up and pay to have the entire system, genny, parts and all shipped back and make the system work AS ADVERTISED and AS PROMISED. The steps I've taken, detailed feedback, tests, detailed photos, suggestions from all of you and time I've spent on this have far exceeded anything or anyone would consider "reasonable and customary". US Carb needs to make it right and make it work consistently on both propane and gasoline without me THE CUSTOMER having to perform any extraordinary or magic starting sequence. As it is now, it's a patched together piece of crap! "FrankenGenny" Even if it started in this new configuration with the shorter hose I can't close the cover.

Granted US Carb said they'd call me on Monday or Tuesday but what could they offer up that you nice people have not suggested already?

There's something more than the wind and cold weather that is bitter in Las Vegas today! ;-}

Thanks again!

Robert
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Old 12-28-2008, 05:16 PM   #42
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Robert,

Your ordeal with the Honda is giving me second thoughts in not purchasing a a tri-fuel Yamaha 2400 from US Carb.

Mark
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