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01-13-2015, 07:20 AM
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#61
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2 Rivet Member
2017 25' Flying Cloud
2014 23' FB Flying Cloud
2008 20' Safari
Prescott Valley
, Arizona
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 64
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I’m confused. After reading post by Lewster and others on this forum I have been convinced that the 3M tape that AM Solar provides with their mounts is all that is needed to hold the solar panels to the roof. I just order a solar system from AM Solar and I’m excited to get started with the installation. I’ve asked the Tech’s at AM Solar lots of questions and they have been very helpful. One of the questions that I asked was about using just the 3M Tape for mounting the panels. The answer I got surprised me. I was told that some people use just the tape but at AM Solar they don’t for liability reasons. If the people at AM Solar use screws or rivets along with the 3M tape for liability reasons they must believe that there is a possibility that the tape alone could give way. Now I don’t know what I should do. Any thoughts? I hope Lewster could give some insight as to why AM Solar is not using just the tape.
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01-13-2015, 08:42 AM
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#62
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2020 Classic 33
Box Elder
, South Dakota
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,731
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Did they say they were using screw/rivets on an Airstream? Or was there a translation issue? If you asked if they just used tape and the answer was no then that is correct but doesn't mean screws/rivets. They cover the panel base with Dicor or Sikaflex to keep out water which can freeze.
I looked at a recent question I had with Lew and he said to use Sikaflex 221 and clean the surface and mounting plate with brake/carb cleaner on a rag before putting on the tape. I think the kit that comes from AMSolar has the VHB already mounted to the feet.
__________________
Gary
2020 Classic 33 Twin, 2019 Ram 3500 Longhorn, ProPride
NŘVPN
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01-13-2015, 08:54 AM
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#63
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Solar panel blown away!
Just my experience, two sided tape is great stuff, but depending on temperature at application and a few days thereafter, and whether the surface is truly clean, it does not ALWAYS stick really well.
For liability reasons relating to DIY installers etc, the manufacturer is going to recommend tape plus screws or rivets.
Additionally, two sided tape is only as secure as the surface it is applied to. In other words, if it is stuck to a painted or otherwise coated roof, and the paint or coating is not stuck to the surface really well, the tape can fail while working perfectly.
I would think that factory paint would seldom if ever be a problem, other coatings and the applications of these coatings are going to be questionable.
1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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01-13-2015, 09:30 AM
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#64
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Rivet Master
2009 23' FB Flying Cloud
Canmore
, Alberta
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AIRTRVL
I’m confused. After reading post by Lewster and others on this forum I have been convinced that the 3M tape that AM Solar provides with their mounts is all that is needed to hold the solar panels to the roof. I just order a solar system from AM Solar and I’m excited to get started with the installation. I’ve asked the Tech’s at AM Solar lots of questions and they have been very helpful. One of the questions that I asked was about using just the 3M Tape for mounting the panels. The answer I got surprised me. I was told that some people use just the tape but at AM Solar they don’t for liability reasons. If the people at AM Solar use screws or rivets along with the 3M tape for liability reasons they must believe that there is a possibility that the tape alone could give way. Now I don’t know what I should do. Any thoughts? I hope Lewster could give some insight as to why AM Solar is not using just the tape.
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I got the same response when I called in my order to AM Solar. They suggested tape, screws, and Dicor which we ended up using. My local installer was also not happy with tape. That said, Lew probably has more experience than anyone in this field.
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01-13-2015, 10:13 AM
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#65
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2 Rivet Member
2017 25' Flying Cloud
2014 23' FB Flying Cloud
2008 20' Safari
Prescott Valley
, Arizona
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 64
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I called AM Solar back today and asked how they install the mounts to the AS. They clean the roof with alcohol install the mount with 3M tape and install #10 by 1” screws. Then they seal the edge of the 3M tape and screws with nonleveling Dicor.
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01-13-2015, 02:40 PM
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#66
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
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Here is the 'skinny' on how I mount the panels. The factory and I differ a bit, as they use Dicor self-leveling sealant in the feet. I prefer SikaFlex 221 as is is not only a sealant, but also a super adhesive/bonding agent.
In fact, if I didn't need the immediate bond from the VHB tape, I would use 100% SikaFlex.
I also do custom shaping and angling of the panel feet as required to obtain the largest contact area possible.
Airstream uses SikaFlex 221 to bond the crank-up antenna to the roof. The screws simply hold it in place while the SikaFlex bonds and cures.
I discovered this years ago when trying to remove an antenna base. It literally has to be cut off, as the adhesive power of the SikaFlex bond could NOT bd broken!
In summary, I depend on the SikaFlex bond to supplement the VHB tape and double or triple the bond strength of the VHB.
And BTW, my old Sprinter service van had 4 panels on the roof with no sealant..........just the VHB. None of the feet loosened after 7 years! When I recently removed the 5 panels from my '11 Sprinter to test the Flex panels, it took half a day to get the feet and VHB residue off the roof.
To reiterate, I have NEVER LOST A PANEL in 10 years of installing solar, and I have never used a screw on an Airstream roof!
YMMV! :-)
Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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01-13-2015, 04:10 PM
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#67
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Rivet Master
2007 22' International CCD
Corona
, California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,180
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Lewster,
Didn't you mention that alcohol was not the right stuff to clean with before using the tape?
Sent from my pocket Internet using Airstream Forums
__________________
Rich, KE4GNK/AE, Overkill Engineering Dept.
'The Silver HamShack' ('07 International 22FB CCD 75th Anniversary)
Multiple Yaesu Ham Radios inside and many antennae sprouting from roof, ProPride hitch, Prodigy P2 controller.
2012 shortbed CrewMax 4x4 Toyota Tacoma TV with more antennae on it.
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01-13-2015, 04:30 PM
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#68
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmkrum
Lewster,
Didn't you mention that alcohol was not the right stuff to clean with before using the tape?
Sent from my pocket Internet using Airstream Forums
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Alcohol is OK for cleaning the roof substrate for the VHB prep and Dicor, but is a very bad choice when using ANY polyurethane sealants like SikaFlex 221, as it inhibits the bonding strength and cure rate (this is direct from Sika tech support).
Any acetone based cleaner or pure acetone will not contaminate the roof substrate when using polyurethane sealants. Just be sure to wear nitrile or similar gloves when using acetone, as it absorbs very quickly into the skin and can cause long term liver and kidney damage.
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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01-14-2015, 07:33 AM
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#69
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2 Rivet Member
2017 25' Flying Cloud
2014 23' FB Flying Cloud
2008 20' Safari
Prescott Valley
, Arizona
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 64
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Thanks for all the great information. It’s always best to ask the experts before taking on a project like this. I’m going to take Lewster’s advice and avoid drilling holes. Thanks again
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08-22-2017, 12:05 PM
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#70
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johnkellygreen
1985 25' Sovereign
Lansdowne
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
It certainly IS strong, but there IS a way to get the stuff off cleanly! PM me if you are in need of this proprietary information.
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Hello Lewster, Regarding your proprietary method for VHB tape removal, I could really use some advice. I made custom aluminum brackets to fix my 2 160 watt panels to the roof of my 1985 Sovereign. They have been cooking in the sun since spring. Two of the bracket feet popped when I checked by pulling them up with a bit of pressure (25#'s.) I used VHB Adhesive Tape 5952 and installed them according to your recommendations (as far as I know.) Did I use the correct VHB tape? Could you send me the tape removal method you use? Thanks very much. I'm sure I did something wrong during the installation.
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08-23-2017, 04:44 AM
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#71
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Rivet Master
2005 31' Classic
Garner,
, North Carolina
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
Allow me to present a different scenario…………
After literally thousands of installations of RV solar charging systems, AM Solar has NEVER LOST A PANEL!!!!!!!!! This includes both the screw-down installations on textured and or rubber roofing substrates AND the bonded installations for metal roofs (like Airstreams) and smooth fiberglass roofing found on large motorhomes.
I have been installing systems for AM Solar for 8 years and have never had a panel loosen, let alone be blown completely off the roof.
I think your dealer and their techs have quite a bit to learn about the proper technique of installing solar panels on RV roofs in general, and Airstreams in particular!!!
I have yet to use a single screw in any of my Airstream installations, and rarely even penetrate the roof at all! 3M VHB tape is a very powerful bonding agent used primarily in the automotive industry to attach body parts like roofs and other panels. It has an extremely high shear strength which makes it perfect for bonding solar panels too the proper RV roofing substrates. Proper cleaning and surface preparation is essential to assure a complete bond with the use of VHB tape
This is followed in my installations by an application of SikaFlex 221 as both a second bonding agent and a waterproofing seal to prevent moisture from potentially attacking the VHB bond.
I think it would be of great benefit to both you and your Airstream to find a better qualified installer for your solar panels…..one who will not simply put more unnecessary holes in your roof !!!!!
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FOLKS read this part again. and if you think you are doing good by putting screws in, read it AGAIN..
thanks Lew... good advise
__________________
Carl, Raleigh NC
2-24-16 got a 2005 Classic 31D 460 watts solar, lithium 230 AH, 16" LT's, pulled by:
2003 F-250 SD, CC, 7.3L PowerStroke
WBCCI#1691, Piedmont Airstream Club, Unit #161, Region #3
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08-27-2017, 04:18 PM
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#72
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl2591
FOLKS read this part again. and if you think you are doing good by putting screws in, read it AGAIN..
thanks Lew... good advise
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Any Time!
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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09-02-2017, 09:19 AM
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#73
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2 Rivet Member
1960 24' Tradewind
San Diego
, California
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan
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Tnx! This a great solution to create a rock solid mount.
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