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03-10-2010, 06:13 PM
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#21
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Naysayer
1968 24' Tradewind
Russellville
, earth
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,954
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The jumbo won't fit. Not even close. I have 50 inch space to work with behind the AC and 30 in front. The supper panel would be the largest that will fit flat on the roof.
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03-10-2010, 07:43 PM
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#22
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
1963 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Central
, Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,919
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Hey General,
I was doing some research on posted solar outputs verses actual and I found a good rule of thumb is use 40% of the amount you think you will get while parked in a good spot.
My model was based on actual solar angles/hour of the day so I took into account most of the variables for a flat mount solar panel setup.
I was trying to reduce the amount of time needed to operate a genset based our our, um, excessive usage.
I guess I'm stickin with the 'ole Honda 2000 for an hour or so in the morning and evening, 3 big-o-GRP27's and a 3 stage charger.
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03-10-2010, 07:54 PM
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#23
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Naysayer
1968 24' Tradewind
Russellville
, earth
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,954
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Does anyone have pictures of their solar on their vintage unit? I especially want to look at the tilt brackets.
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03-10-2010, 08:04 PM
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#24
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Rivet Master
1959 26' Overlander
Putnam
, Connecticut
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,064
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This is real important. Do not put the panel right on the roof. You must have space under the panel. These things degrade as they heat up. A space between will help get more juice and it will last long. Plus it will provide some shade for the AS. How about putting some of that money into LED's. That will make a hugh difference. Good luck.
PS. Size the wire by the length of the run not the connectors on the control panel. I would real stink to go to all that expense and work and only get 12.5 Volts because the wires to thin. If the wire is too thick for the connectors then just lug on a few inches of a smaller gauge to make the connection.
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03-10-2010, 08:23 PM
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#25
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Chief Chili Cook
2010 30' Flying Cloud
Bakersfield
, California
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 738
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General, I exported these two pixs, then noticed you said vintage. I'm posting anyway just to show off the sloppy sealant job the dealership did installing these for the PO. It's cleaned up now.
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03-10-2010, 08:25 PM
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#26
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_
.
, .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen Disarray
... I especially want to look at the tilt brackets.
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this isn't complicated...
L angle aluminum extrusions mounted to the stream...
with panels attached at one end and LEGS at the other.
there are ready made tilt up brackets shown on many of the rv/solar vendor sites.
or glean some ideas from this thread (see michael's pics)...
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f448...ice-39392.html
or look at the TOPside mounting options for SMALLER trailers in this thread...
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f448...tem-35476.html
MANY of the longer solar threads go into great detail on brackets, wiring, heat issue, shade, controllers and so on...
and most of them include genset comparisons or back ups.
cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.
we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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03-10-2010, 09:36 PM
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#27
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Rivet Master
1965 17' Caravel
1983 27' Excella
Walnut Grove/Laguna Woods
, California
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen Disarray
Does anyone have pictures of their solar on their vintage unit? I especially want to look at the tilt brackets.
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55w panel on our '65 Caravel. I ran the wire down the vent into the closet, out a hole in the side of the vent pipe to the controller.
Entire installation took me less than an hour. Really very easy.
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03-10-2010, 10:11 PM
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#28
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Rivet Master
2005 25' International CCD
Fleetwood
, North Carolina
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 687
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mppt, another battery, and tilting
We used these folks for our system based upon recommendation by Don KD6UVT. He did a great write-up on his install (it's in here somewhere) and we followed it point for point (then suggested he add one more point -- I'll get back to this).
Our vendor doesn't seem to have anything listed in the size you're hunting. One thing seemed important, though -- their charge controllers are all pwm or mppt, to optimize the solar charging. But Andy can probably tell me this is all hogwash too.
I'm with 2air about adding another battery, and Ken's right-on about yes using tilt-mount. We're over-sized on panels (2X125) so don't worry much about tilting throughout the summer. But sometimes I rethink this in October when it's 20 degrees F outside and the sun is kinda short.
We installed our panels and it only took me a couple of hours to get them on. And two weeks to locate the damaged wiring in the roof and repair it. The one tip I asked Don to add? Always use a stop-collar with a back-up (short length of plastic tubing) behind it on your drill bit if you are drilling into trailer or auto body.
Something is behind that skin, and I had eight chances to find it. I only hit 12vdc wire bundles twice, and nicked one of them. Never again, I hope! Trailer's lighting circuits were inoperable for over a week. Fuses did their job well, thank heavens.
Turned out two wires were tangled by the drill bit's rude interruption. Now I have a 4" X 5" hand hole for inspection and maintenance. And a real good comprehension of the wiring layout of my home-on-wheels.
These are the lessons I really remember. I just made a very inexperienced mistake. The install was easy and there is no reason for it to be as difficult as I made mine.
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03-10-2010, 10:18 PM
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#29
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Rivet Master
1987 29' Sovereign
Sparta
, Tennessee
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 509
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Gen dissaray,
My only concern with your calculations for days between charging is that I have been told to try to never discharge a conventional battery below 70% for good overall battery life. I think you were using 50%.
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03-11-2010, 08:06 AM
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#30
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Rivet Master
2005 25' International CCD
Fleetwood
, North Carolina
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 687
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nice collection of information
Here's a good link on mppt chargers
and one on battery cycles vs life, based upon flooded batteries.
The latter article does a fine job explaining the impact of frequent deep discharges, or regularly only drawing down the batteries 5 percent. Happy medium is apparently between 10 and 50 percent, and occasional discharge to 80 percent is not problematic.
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03-11-2010, 08:49 AM
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#31
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Naysayer
1968 24' Tradewind
Russellville
, earth
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,954
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After being nudged some to look at AM solar and being told the AM100 panel should be able to be mounted lateral to the fantastic fan, I am giving them consideration. I especially like that the panels don't have to be bolted on!
Option I: The RV solar set up I was looking at was 2 panels (85 + 55 watt) for a total of 140 watts. Cost $900. Downside, the gopower GPR 25controller may not be as great as the vendor claims.
Option II. AM Solar 100 watt panel, Heliotrope controller HPV 22B $854
Option III. AM Solar 100 watt panel, HPV-30DR charge controler, HPV-30DR Solar Monitor. $1,184
Additional 100 watt panels for option II and III $468. (I have room for up to four)
I could see spending a bit more to get the controllers right upfront, but this would mean starting out with one panel and adding on later. How goofy would one panel look (remember this would be mounted lateral to the fantastic fan)?
A question for the electrical gurus: other than Option III allowing more panels, is there $300 of performance difference between the options?
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03-12-2010, 07:28 PM
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#32
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Naysayer
1968 24' Tradewind
Russellville
, earth
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,954
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Is anyone using the HPV-30DR charge controller system that AM Solar is selling?
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03-14-2010, 11:55 AM
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#33
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3 Rivet Member
1994 21' Sovereign
Tucson
, Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 175
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My advice would be that if you have a limited budget, to put your money in the photovoltiac panels before buying a high end charge controller. This would particularly the case when you are using the system on a regular basis.
Although there may be a big difference in controllers, no controller can put more juice into the batteries then the panels put out. MPPT controllers may be more efficient under certain circumstances, such as very cold temperatures, but under normal conditions you'll get more bang for your buck with more panel capacity.
Controllers are just voltage regulators, some may be more precise, and have fancy readout displays, the real difference in performance would be when the unit is reducing the output when the batteries are at or a near to fully charged condition.
In fact, if your charging amperage is less then 10% of your batteries capacity you can wire it direct, with a diode to prevent a reverse current draw at night, without a controller without danger of damaging your batteries, the disadvantage would be increased evaporation of the batteries fluid when the batteries are in a fully charged condition.
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03-14-2010, 12:32 PM
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#34
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Naysayer
1968 24' Tradewind
Russellville
, earth
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snake
Controllers are just voltage regulators, some may be more precise, and have fancy readout displays, the real difference in performance would be when the unit is reducing the output when the batteries are at or a near to fully charged condition.
In fact, if your charging amperage is less then 10% of your batteries capacity you can wire it direct, with a diode to prevent a reverse current draw at night, without a controller without danger of damaging your batteries, the disadvantage would be increased evaporation of the batteries fluid when the batteries are in a fully charged condition.
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So are you saying that with my two 125 amp batteries (250 total) so long as the input from the panels is under 25 amps I don't even have to have a controller?
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03-14-2010, 03:48 PM
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#35
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Chief Chili Cook
2010 30' Flying Cloud
Bakersfield
, California
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondocker
Option II. AM Solar 100 watt panel, Heliotrope controller HPV 22B $854
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That AM Solar 100 seems a little high even at its current sale price of $379 ($3.79/per watt)? I'm sure it's a good unit though.
I'm looking at a Kyocera KD215GX-LPU on sale for $559 ($2.60/per watt). I haven't did my diligence on it yet, so I'm not recommending, just looking so far. Weighing in at 40 lbs, it's twice as heavy as the AM Solar 100, which is another thing to consider. It's good for 50/psf snow load, and 130mph winds!
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03-14-2010, 03:56 PM
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#36
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Naysayer
1968 24' Tradewind
Russellville
, earth
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newroswell
That AM Solar 100 seems a little high even at its current sale price of $379 ($3.79/per watt)? I'm sure it's a good unit though.
I'm looking at a Kyocera KD215GX-LPU on sale for $559 ($2.60/per watt). I haven't did my diligence on it yet, so I'm not recommending, just looking so far. Weighing in at 40 lbs, it's twice as heavy as the AM Solar 100, which is another thing to consider. It's good for 50/psf snow load, and 130mph winds!
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Its 59x39 inches, I guess it could set sideways across the top. Other than that, I cant imagine where it would fit. It also appears to be for residential use, would it hold up to RV usage?
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03-14-2010, 04:31 PM
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#37
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Chief Chili Cook
2010 30' Flying Cloud
Bakersfield
, California
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 738
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It's 18" wider but only 2" taller which works for me. Surviving the road is a real concern of mine as well. I need an 80 watt panel for a completely unrelated project and I hate to go buy one and miss a chance to upgrade what's on the stream.
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03-14-2010, 06:21 PM
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#38
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3 Rivet Member
1994 21' Sovereign
Tucson
, Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondocker
So are you saying that with my two 125 amp batteries (250 total) so long as the input from the panels is under 25 amps I don't even have to have a controller?
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I don't recommend it, but it could work without frying your batteries, you could skip the diodes and have an on-off switch to turn off at sunset to prevent reverse power drain.
Of course, a multistage charge controler with temperature compensation and all the bells and whistles would be best, and could be added at a later date.
It's hard to imagine that you have room for 400 watts on top of your Airstream, I've got a 75 watt and a 43 watt on my Sovereign 21' for a total of 118 watts, it could probably accomodate another 75-85 watt panel alongside the skylight and vent.
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03-14-2010, 06:41 PM
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#39
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Naysayer
1968 24' Tradewind
Russellville
, earth
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snake
It's hard to imagine that you have room for 400 watts on top of your Airstream, I've got a 75 watt and a 43 watt on my Sovereign 21' for a total of 118 watts, it could probably accomodate another 75-85 watt panel alongside the skylight and vent.
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That is definitely a concern I have. IF the AM100 panels can be mounted outside the fantastic fans, then two can go behind and two in front of the AC.
Eventually, I would want a larger battery bank as well
I am also trying to work out where a larger battery bank might work. Maybe street side under the bed, not sure there is enough space there without measuring though. And then, venting is an issue too.
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03-14-2010, 06:51 PM
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#40
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Rivet Master
1994 30' Excella
Mississauga
, Ontario
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,238
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Don't you think that mounting these panels from side to side on the curved roof is going to look a little bulky? And what about all that weight up there and the wind resistance when towing? And you travel a lot!!!(I'm really jealous about that).
All that expense and weight and you rely on a very bright sunny day each and every day.
I think that fuel cell I mentioned sounds better all the time.
And it is green technology as well.
Al
__________________
Al and Jean
TAC ON-3
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