Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-09-2015, 05:12 PM   #1
Rivet Master
 
2016 30' Classic
Erie , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,245
Images: 1
Lithium Batteries for Solar

Just saw that AMSolar has listed 4 different sized Lithium (LiFEPO4) battery pack units on their website.

Since Lithiums can use 80% of capacity, something equivalent to 4 - 6V 220ah Lifelines with usable capacity of 220ah would be the 300ah Lithium pack.

The 4 Lifelines weigh in at 264lbs. The 300ah setup looks like it should weigh in at under 90lbs base on 4 of the 100ah. Might be different when all of the variations have full details.

Cost for the Lifelines at $1,340 vs $2,699 for the Lithiums. Lithiums are estimated to have a 3-5x longer expectancy of number of charges vs. AGM's so in the long run may be less expensive.

Exciting times.
__________________

__________________
Gary
2015 Classic
2015 GMC Sierra 2500HD Duramax
ProPride
NVPN
ghaynes755 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2015, 05:24 PM   #2
Rivet Master
 
KJRitchie's Avatar

 
2008 25' Classic
Wichita Falls , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,222
What about the chargers for these batteries? You can't use the same controlers and converters for the current battery techknogies in RVs.

Kelvin
__________________

__________________
KJRitchie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2015, 06:20 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,716
Exciting times indeed, a great companion to modern solar systems.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles

The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
dkottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2015, 06:43 PM   #4
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
lewster's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples, FL , Hood River, OR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,282
Since you mentioned it.................

I have been getting a ton of requests about lithium battery technology. Greg at AM Solar has spent the last several months working with this new formulation of lithium batteries (LiFeYPO-4)..... the Y stands for Yttrium. This new formula addresses one of the main drawbacks of the old formulation without the Yttrium. Previously, you needed to refrain from using the lithiums below freezing and especially when charging them, as temperatures below freezing had a serious negative affect on the battery chemistry that was permanent. This is not a problem with the new Yttrium formulation. This also eliminates the need for heated battery boxes for the old formula batteries.

These new batteries are complete with required cell voltage balancing electronics and a battery monitor system that will shut off the voltage draw before they reach the low voltage 'point of no return'. That was the other serious problem with lithiums.....draw them past their low voltage cut-off and they were TOAST!

I have the 2 X 100 amp/hours of the previous version of these batteries in my van and have been powering a 12VDC fridge (24/7) and 2800 watt Magnum sine wave inverter with them. Charging is from 5 X 100 Grape Solar Photo Flex panels and the Blue Sky 40 amp 3024iL solar charge controller. The batteries have been at 100% before noon every day.

I have a new set of the Yttrium formula lithiums coming soon. BTW, the present lithiums that I have weigh about 56 lbs. and they replaced a pair of Lifeline GPL-6CT AGM 6VDC golf cart batteries that weighted just shy of 200 lbs.

Once everything is sorted out, the new lithium formula is expected to last over 5000 charge cycles, or 5 times that of AGM batteries at 50% depth of discharge. The initial expense will quickly be absorbed by the longevity of this new technology, and they could easily be the last trailer battery that you ever buy!

Charging requires a CC/CV (constant current/constant voltage) charge profile. This is easily done with a Magnum inverter/charger, as both the ME-RC and ME-ARC remote panels have the necessary firmware for this with a CC/CV setting in the charge profile. Blue Sky solar chargers can also be set for this type of specialized charging. Our familiar 3-stage chargers WILL NOT WORK! I'm sure that the converter manufacturers will be addressing this requirement soon.

I will be keeping close track of the new batteries once they arrive and will start a thread for them.
__________________
Lew Farber...ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician...RVIA Certified Master Tech ...AM Solar Authorized Installation Center...AIRSTREAM Solar & Electrical Specialist...Micro Air 'Easy Start' Sales and Installations
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2015, 06:57 PM   #5
Rivet Master
 
kscherzi's Avatar
 
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills , California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,137
Images: 24
Thanks for the update Lew. Out of curiosity how big are the lithiums? Are they a similar dimension to the group 24s or golf cart batteries?
__________________
kscherzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2015, 07:04 PM   #6
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
vinstream's Avatar
 
1962 19' Globetrotter
1963 19' Globetrotter
1961 19' Globetrotter
Wheat Ridge , Colorado
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 624
Images: 2
After they figure out the overheat and fire issues.... All joking aside I like the weight to storage capacity, but the price is still way to high for the return at this time... I would be willing to pay 40% to 50% more but 5 times the cost still does not pay for its self at this time... Fingers crossed
__________________
www.VINSTREAM.com
Wheat Ridge, Colorado
WBCCI # 1962
Instagram #Vinstream
vinstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2015, 07:16 PM   #7
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
lewster's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples, FL , Hood River, OR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherzi View Post
Thanks for the update Lew. Out of curiosity how big are the lithiums? Are they a similar dimension to the group 24s or golf cart batteries?
The 100 amp/hour units that I have in the van are about the size of a GP-24.....maybe a bit smaller........but SERIOUSLY lighter. I'll measure them tomorrow.
__________________
Lew Farber...ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician...RVIA Certified Master Tech ...AM Solar Authorized Installation Center...AIRSTREAM Solar & Electrical Specialist...Micro Air 'Easy Start' Sales and Installations
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2015, 08:05 PM   #8
Rivet Master
 
2016 30' Classic
Erie , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,245
Images: 1
Specs on the 100ah version at AMSolar.

12.8 Volts (Nominal)
100 Amp-Hour Capacity
9 & 11/16" (246mm) Long
5 & 5/8" (143mm) Wide
9 & 1/4" (235mm) to top of Bolt
Weighs 28 lbs.

Other configurations 200, 300 & 400 ah are shown on the site. Neat thing is that you can have a long skinny setup or a more square setup when you do the larger setups. Example the 300ah can be 5.625 x 29 or 7.25 x 22.5 or 11.25 x 11.5 inches.

And price appears to be just shy of 2x the price for a comparable setup at least for the 300ah Lithium vs 6 of the GPL-4CT Lifelines.
__________________
Gary
2015 Classic
2015 GMC Sierra 2500HD Duramax
ProPride
NVPN
ghaynes755 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2015, 02:21 AM   #9
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,602
Images: 1
So, 56lbs replaced 200lbs with the same performance? That's a hell of a ratio.
__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2015, 06:29 AM   #10
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
lewster's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples, FL , Hood River, OR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
So, 56lbs replaced 200lbs with the same performance? That's a hell of a ratio.
YEP!. Look at it this way: a 300 amp/hour Lifeline battery bank has a generally accepted usable capacity of 150 amp/hours (50% depth of discharge).

The 200 amp/hour lithium bank can be drawn to 80% depth of discharge, providing a capacity of 160 amp/hours.

Pretty interesting!
__________________
Lew Farber...ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician...RVIA Certified Master Tech ...AM Solar Authorized Installation Center...AIRSTREAM Solar & Electrical Specialist...Micro Air 'Easy Start' Sales and Installations
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2015, 10:28 AM   #11
Rivet Master
 
KJRitchie's Avatar

 
2008 25' Classic
Wichita Falls , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,222
Early adoption is expensive. Most RV owners don't care about battery weight when they own 3/4 and 1 ton trucks to pull larger RVs so prices will remain high as there will be little demand. Hopefully manufacturing costs will come down and other industries will adopt this technology so the RV industry can take advantage.

Kelvin
__________________
KJRitchie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2015, 11:28 AM   #12
Site Team
 
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,940
Images: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJRitchie View Post
. . . Hopefully manufacturing costs will come down and other industries will adopt this technology so the RV industry can take advantage.

Kelvin
I wonder if any of these Lithium chemistries will be able to survive in the face of the Tesla/Panasonic Gigafactory being build near Reno?

I think they plan to use NCA chemistry, and optimize it until the cost/kWh gets down to around $100 per. If true, it may displace other (LiFeYPO4) chemistries just by brute force. Even if NCA batteries aren't optimumized for RV use due to different discharge characteristics, they may be better just by the fact that they will cost a lot less per kwh.

Who wouldn't pay $120 for a 100 ah Lithium NCA battery?
__________________
markdoane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2015, 11:56 AM   #13
Rivet Slave
 
Rocinante's Avatar

 
2014 27' FB International
Western WA , Washington
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,453
Blog Entries: 49
I love the idea of Lithium batteries for the improved amp hours per pound. What do we know about the fire safety of the YPO and NCA lithium cells? I remember the Boeing 787s that were grounded all over the world for a bit, and I'm well aware that my AS is anything but fireproof.
__________________
Rocinante is our 2014 International Signature 27FB
(Named for John Steinbeck's camper from "Travels With Charley")


Rocinante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2015, 12:13 PM   #14
Site Team
 
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,940
Images: 59
At this point I think it's clear that YPO is safer than NCA. Like any evolving technology there are hurdles to overcome.
I think the safety issues will (and are) being addressed. It's been a year since a Model S Tesla caught fire, and the Boeing 787 is back in the air. I think the days when a backyard inventor can just strap a few batteries together and have a safe system might be over.
__________________

__________________
markdoane is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electrical, Solar, Lithium Batteries on 28' International wbrown Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 25 09-13-2014 07:44 PM
Lithium ion battery bearrand Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 9 04-04-2014 07:02 PM
Lithium Battery - 2012 doublebubble Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 23 08-05-2012 10:43 AM
Lithium ion battery sk8r29 Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 18 03-30-2011 02:33 AM
Spray Lithium Grease (Wal-Mart) Old_Town Hitches, Couplers & Balls 3 11-16-2007 01:48 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.