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Old 09-25-2019, 11:26 AM   #41
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Quote:
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Back to the Honda/Easy start thread,

I have a Penguin 2 15k AC with easy start. I currently have the 2800/3100 Champion generator but someone is coming over to buy it today (too heavy).

My question is, you people who are running a 15k AC with easy start and a single Honda 2200, do you shut off your converter (I assume using the cb) and anything else,to get the AC to run?

I ask because when I run the converter and the AC using a 15amp house socket it only runs for a few minutes before tripping the 15amp breaker.

Thanks
I'm beginning to regret selling the Champion.

I just put an ammeter on the hot wire (black) going into the cb for the AC. (connected to a house 15amp outlet)

When the AC first kicks on it goes to 4 amps, then when the compressor comes online it goes to 10, then all the way up to 15 amps in about a minute. At that point I shut off the AC to prevent tripping the house breaker.

So, how is a single Honda 2200 able to power a 15k easy start AC? As I read, the single gen only has a 15 amp cb, correct?

Thanks
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Old 09-25-2019, 11:38 AM   #42
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Hi

The running load on a 2200i 1800W / 15A @ 120V. The running load on a single A/C *can* get up to 17A under unusual conditions. On a 15,000 BTU it is not uncommon to see it a bit above 15A. You can also see it down around 13A under other conditions. Just why the load varies that much gets into all the odd things it may or may not be doing in this or that mode.

Pretty much *anything* that adds an AC load to the circuit can push the numbers past the 2200's ratings. Just how far you can go past those ratings ( = how conservative are they) is unknown. What the ratings are at 10,000 feet is also a bit of an unknown if you camp at that altitude. Same thing in terms of 120F and 20F ...gas vs propane ....

The converter and the fridge are the two typical things that sort of sneak up on you in terms of AC loads. It's pretty easy to forget them when the rest of the crew is "mentioning" just how hot it is

Bob
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Old 09-25-2019, 12:18 PM   #43
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MicroAir did some testing back before the 2200, when there was just the 2000. I had a similar Yamaha and it would not run the A/C. What MicroAir discovered is that the electronics on the Honda let it run over rating and the voltage did not collapse like it did on the Yamaha. I switched to Honda, a 2000, and indeed it does run the A/C with an EasyStart. In any event, the overcurrent was not enough to trip the generator breaker on the Yamaha, the voltage collapse triggered the EasyStart protection.
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Old 09-25-2019, 12:51 PM   #44
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Hi

Given the wide range of currents these A/C units can pull when running, simply checking to see if "it works" is not a guarantee that it will work in all cases. That's not to say that you *will* have a problem, only that you may be depending on your generator to be more than a little better than the specs say it should be.

For whatever it's worth, AS rates both the 13,500 and the15,000 BTU A/C as pulling 16A in their write-ups. From watching the display on my EMS, there most certainly *is* a range as the unit goes through both heat pump and air conditioning modes.

Bob
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Old 09-25-2019, 01:15 PM   #45
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In air conditioning mode, the compressor draws more current when the refrigerant pressure goes up. The pressure goes up when it is hotter outside. I believe that is the major contributor to variation in current draw.

Al
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Old 09-25-2019, 01:24 PM   #46
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Admittedly, I was aware of all the variables around A/C compressor draw. That’s why I chose the 3400 watt Champion. It gives me a lot of margin, and can deliver all the current my 22 footer can use.

We were out in 90+ degree weather on the last trip, up to 5,000 feet altitude, and the big Champion worked fine. Even in ‘economy’ mode it barely grunted when the compressor cycled on. Can’t hear the generator over the air conditioner noise inside the Airstream at all...

Yeah, it’s heavy to lift. Once it’s in the truck bed, I can run it there with just a propane hose to the A-frame quick disconnect fitting I added. OEM power cord is just long enough to reach as well.

Overkill sometimes works out just fine...
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Old 09-25-2019, 01:47 PM   #47
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From Micro-Air

"Hello Matt,

Typical running currents for 15kbtu A/C units is in the neighborhood of 14-16 amps, varying with manufactures and speaks to the poster’s issue. Adding any loads will definitely come close to popping 15A breakers. For your Honda, we’ve measuring in house that they can give you their peak rating for extended periods of time and as such recommend them whenever possible. 2200 watts translates to ~18 amps of headroom (at sea level!) and is plenty to simply run a normally operating A/C unit.

Best,
Nick"
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Old 09-25-2019, 03:29 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattRox View Post
From Micro-Air

"Hello Matt,

Typical running currents for 15kbtu A/C units is in the neighborhood of 14-16 amps, varying with manufactures and speaks to the poster’s issue. Adding any loads will definitely come close to popping 15A breakers. For your Honda, we’ve measuring in house that they can give you their peak rating for extended periods of time and as such recommend them whenever possible. 2200 watts translates to ~18 amps of headroom (at sea level!) and is plenty to simply run a normally operating A/C unit.

Best,
Nick"

Thanks for sharing, Matt.
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Old 09-26-2019, 06:00 PM   #49
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Hi

Indeed some generators *can* run at peak for 10 or 20 minutes. How long often depends on temperature.

If it's hot out and I only have one AC unit .... it will run for *hours*.

Just how hard the AC works is a function of both humidity and temperature. As either one goes up it becomes harder to do the cooling job.

Bob
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:26 PM   #50
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The 30amp plug on the companion model doesn't fit the standard RV 30amp cord, right? I only need the one generator, so if I need an adapter for either one, why should I buy the companion model?

Thanks,
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Old 10-08-2019, 01:52 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by mattRox View Post
The 30amp plug on the companion model doesn't fit the standard RV 30amp cord, right? I only need the one generator, so if I need an adapter for either one, why should I buy the companion model?,
Yes, I was wondering the same thing. Not sure what the extra $ affords us.
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:42 PM   #52
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No need. Some people like the 30 amp plug buys it’s not necessary for one. For two in parallel it’s worth so it can carry the AC load safely using the shore power cord.
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Old 10-11-2019, 06:06 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattRox View Post
The 30amp plug on the companion model doesn't fit the standard RV 30amp cord, right? I only need the one generator, so if I need an adapter for either one, why should I buy the companion model?

Thanks,


You are correct.Either will work.Only difference is with the companion you adapter will twist in and lock vs a standard 110volt plug on the solo.
I carry both as I like to run more than just my ac at times.
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Old 10-26-2019, 04:26 PM   #54
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Honda 2200

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Originally Posted by Firedog1 View Post
I would like to hear if anyone is running the 15K with 2200 for any length of time with easy start. I just had easy start installed and considered downsizing from 3100is to the new 2200. If I do that would like to mount it on a frame
Here is a guy testing his 13.5 and 15.0 AC on the new Honda, near sea level but indicative of performance as long as you keep all other loads off the gen set
Jump to 14:00 to see the test
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Old 10-27-2019, 06:58 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by suncoasteng View Post
Here is a guy testing his 13.5 and 15.0 AC on the new Honda, near sea level but indicative of performance as long as you keep all other loads off the gen set
Jump to 14:00 to see the test
Hi

Lots and lots of talk, but no real indication he ran it long enough to get past the "surge" ratings on the generator. Not to say it would have a problem, but it's not apparent he ran it long enough to find out.

In terms of the yack, it's rare for a generator manufacturer to recommend break-in at 100% load ....

Bob
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Old 10-28-2019, 06:51 PM   #56
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AC on generator

Surge from AC on a generator is highest at motor start up, not after the AC has been running for some time. Motor amp draw is highest on startup. Keep your AC fan in the ON position at all times. Start the unit with FAN only before kicking down the thermostat and you will be able to easily run RV AC off the Honda as the initial motor start load is the surge load
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:11 AM   #57
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Surge from AC on a generator is highest at motor start up, not after the AC has been running for some time. Motor amp draw is highest on startup. Keep your AC fan in the ON position at all times. Start the unit with FAN only before kicking down the thermostat and you will be able to easily run RV AC off the Honda as the initial motor start load is the surge load
Hi

All these modern generators have a "surge rating" of around 20 to 30% of the "running" capacity. That used to apply to a 20 second sort of burst. These days it applies to maybe a half hour of run time. Unless you get past that point, there is no real way to know if the "running" capacity of the generator will do what you need to do.

Yes, there is a surge related to the compressor. It's a second for the really big spike. The Easy Start stuff is designed to reduce that part of the problem.

Simply put - the issue isn't the 45A or so spike at turn on. It's the 16A of constant load. That's 1920W. The generator is rated for a 2200W "surge" (thus the 2200 in the name). On a continuous basis it is only rated for 1800W.

Bob
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:38 AM   #58
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Hi



All these modern generators have a "surge rating" of around 20 to 30% of the "running" capacity. That used to apply to a 20 second sort of burst. These days it applies to maybe a half hour of run time. Unless you get past that point, there is no real way to know if the "running" capacity of the generator will do what you need to do.



Yes, there is a surge related to the compressor. It's a second for the really big spike. The Easy Start stuff is designed to reduce that part of the problem.



Simply put - the issue isn't the 45A or so spike at turn on. It's the 16A of constant load. That's 1920W. The generator is rated for a 2200W "surge" (thus the 2200 in the name). On a continuous basis it is only rated for 1800W.



Bob


Hence the reasons the Department of Engineering Overkill went with the 3400 watt Champion inverter generator. It derates quite a bit on propane, then you lose some more power with altitude. The air conditioner also sucks some more power when it’s really hot outside.

That aside, on our last epic month-long trip, the Champion easily handled 90 degree weather, high humidity and running only on propane to keep us and the dogs comfortably cool in Alabama and Texas. It ran just a touch above idle and barely ‘grunted’ on compressor starts. I did not have a chance to install my EasyStart before the trip, but still plan to do so.

DW was wondering why I was carrying such a big heavy thing along until we were stopped at a restaurant one evening and I set it up to keep the dogs cool while we ate dinner. That was the end of the objections...the several hours we all sat in the Airstream in El Paso in full sun in comfort with the air running off the generator further sealed the deal.

Since I do not plan to ever run it on gasoline, and I have adapted it to run directly on my low pressure propane port and stock regulator on the Airstream it should last a long time. I did modify the Champion-supplied regulator with quick-connect fittings so I can get it up to 20 feet away from the trailer.

I have two 12 foot low pressure hoses that can be coupled to do that. Generator runs perfectly at the end of both these hoses in series since I went with bigger 1/2 inch hoses and 3/8 inch couplings to maximize propane flow and minimize pressure drop. Others have reported that it can be run off more recent Airstream units with the factory’s 1/4 inch quick disconnect port and a shorter hose.

I’m also installing a front power inlet on the Airstream and a manual 30 amp transfer inside switch to make it easier to hook up without running the electrical cable all over the place to get to the OEM connector. With this setup I can leave the generator in the bed of the truck and set up and run very quickly.

It’s very nice to have air conditioning on demand wherever we might be. Early September was a bit warm and humid wherever we were, including DisneyWorld...was a bit steamy, but still a lot of fun on an over 8,000 mile trip!
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Old 10-29-2019, 08:03 PM   #59
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My question is, you people who are running a 15k AC with easy start and a single Honda 2200, do you shut off your converter (I assume using the cb) and anything else,to get the AC to run?
Yes. My converter is off - semi-permanently.

My batteries are completely tendered and charged by 400W of solar. It would be the very rare occasion (never yet) that I would need a generator or infrastructure power to charge via the converter.

Back to the 2200 question. It's been proven to have margin and reserve to put out 18amps all day long (at sea level). It's not built and rated like other generators interpretation of "surge" or "running" watts that some here are assuming. The 2200 rating for Honda, is 2200 running watts. It has surge reserves beyond that. Just like the eu2000 model before it which has been proven to have 2000 running watts (~16.6amps).

I use to have 2x eu2000 Honda's. I've sold them ($700 each!) and replaced with a single eu2200.

I have my eu2200 paired with arguably one of the new highest output 15k A/Cs on the market - Dometic Blizzard 15k (w/ Easystart). Couldn't ask for a better pairing. It will run the A/C all day long even at 6k feet.

I would not propane convert it if the intent is to run a larger A/C, as that derates the genny which may not allow enough power margin for things like elevation or really hot days.

Sure, there's those that like their larger genny's. Yet portability and handling matters and that's where the 47lb Honda excels in spades. Running what traditionally took 2x 2000W class genny's or larger 100lb+ behemoths. My back thanks it.

I don't have to have my tow vehicle tethered either as the genny sits in place and runs with the AS on the tongue. I could leave with my TV, come back, and the trailer sits running nice and cool.

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Old 10-29-2019, 08:56 PM   #60
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honda’s power equipment website lists output specifications as follows: Maximum output 2200 watts, continuous output 1800 watts
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