Generator versus Solar Power- update

[Ray Eklund]

I became tired looking for a Thread when I was going the Honda Generator route, versus installing Solar on our new 2014 International.

I wanted to see how effective having the generator and how well it worked to keep our AGM batteries alive and well into the usable range.

Final Answer:

After two weeks in Wyoming- SOLAR

The passive charging of the batteries during the daytime surpasses the generator in convenience and keeping the batteries topped off.

Even the moving from one campsite to another did not keep the batteries topped off, even as frugal we are using them when detached at an Off the Grid campsite.

This was an experiment on my part costing $900 for the generator. I can use it if my wife needs the hair dryer or there is television reception in the Red Desert of Wyoming. Except for those uses... it is a boat anchor with a two gallon container of additional fuel in the back of the tow vehicle.

For those who actually camp Off the Grid... I found NO advantage with the generator. I could have my tow vehicle idle to provide 12 volts when the water pump was used or some mild charging of the batteries. The cost in additional fuel of the tow vehicle's alternator was CHEAP, compared to the Honda purring quietly on the tailgate.

I will be seeking out having one or two 100 watt panels to be installed on our 2014 International at Tucson this February... if we can be fitted into their schedule at the Airstream Dealership, now there.

Our 80 watt solar panel on our 2006 Safari provided us with a reliable charge for a week before declining. This was a lesson learned by myself and will not be forgotten. Passive Solar is far superior to Purring Generator...

[wulfraat]

I went solar first (installed maybe 5 or 6 years ago). Have 470 watts up top.

Recently bought a generator (honda 2000i) as a backup but have only used it once this summer.

Solar is a big investment but has worked out very well for me....

[dbj216]

Interesting thread for me, thank you.

I rented a generator on a recent boondocking trip and like you, didn't use it. I think I would prefer the generator as it provides 115v AC rather easily, and would run the AC if we got overheated for some reason.

But it is certainly true Airstream builds their trailers as "self contained" with ample 12v power. Who needs an ac, or microwave, or hair dryer, or TV when enjoying the great outdoors? Take a hike with your puppy instead.

Solar panels are coming down in cost. Airstream Life sells these portable units with a 30' cord so you can move them into the sun. They would keep the standard 12v batteries charged up pretty good.

http://store.airstreamlife.com/products/solar-panel-kit

But to rig up a solar system to provide 2000 watts of AC power is a whole nother ball game. But many do exactly that. I think the cost is much more than a 2000 watt generator. That's my issue.

So generator or solar is a decision based on how you use your Airstream. How is that for stating the obvious!

David

[Rocinante]

We already have 150 watts of solar, installed by our dealer, with one panel on the roof. We're not satisfied, recommend you get more wattage than that if you can. We also have a propane-fired Honda EU2000i generator which we recently purchased and are using as backup in case of camping in deep woods or other shady spots, or as in our case, an under-powered solar panel.

We'll eventually do a major upgrade of solar and move to lithium with Victron gear behind the scenes, but that's probably not for a couple of years. Until then this config, along with our new pair of Group 27 batteries, will have to do. (only bought the new batteries because the original group 24 batteries up and died last week)

[Wayne&Sam]

This is my first trip with a 100 watt Renogy suitcase panel. It's working great for us. The batteries get topped off every day.

We are frugal electric users and are using lights, MaxxAir fans all day, the water pump, and heat every morning.

The portable panel lets me aim it for max gain, I'm seeing 5-6 amps typically.

Roof top panels would be more convenient but the 300 watts or so may not give me more amps because of positioning.


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[Rocinante]

Hey, thanks, this gives us hope that maybe our solar experience will improve with better batteries on the tongue. Sure hope so!

[KJRitchie]

Got back from Glacier National Park last week. Many Glacier and Fish Creek Campgrounds are solar challenged. You may get a couple of hours on sunlight through the trees but if you have roof solar you may not get any sun unless you also use a portable panel. Add some clouds and solar is marginal. My portable 200w Zamp was used, wish I had a longer extension as even 25ft wasn't long enough to get the most sun at my campsites. t'm glad I purchased a Honda 2000 prior to the trip (propane converted). I ran it for a couple of hours when needed during generator hours. Our campsite at St Mary had clear view of the southern sky so the portable panel was successful. I'm amazed that my two Interstate grp 27 batteries can't maintain 12.6 or higher for a couple of days before dropping off and this is just with running a few lights, fridge electronics and charging phones. I did run the 28" TV off 12v a couple of nights along with a 120w inverter to run an Apple TV. A few mornings I ran the furnace for the wife to take the chill off while she go up out of bed.

Kelvin

[Ray Eklund]

I could not find an original Thread as it was under Boondocking:

Boondocking- Solar or Generator?

Living in the Great Plains and Rocky Mountains... Air Conditioning is similar to selling Ice Cubes to Eskimos, not necessary.

The last two weeks in Western Wyoming we had frost on our trailers in mid August. Standing in the shade of a tree or bush the temperature drops immediately from what you will experience in the sunlight.

Missouri... whew. Living in the Kansas City, Missouri metro area for a decade or more does add to one's understanding of stepping outdoors and the sweat begins to pour. Without any effort.

Colorado... you step out and in the morning have a long sleeved shirt, and later have no need for it, tie it around your waist and by late afternoon the shirt goes back to prevent the chills.

Each region has its unique needs when inside your trailer. I actually have particular ways to orientate the length of the Airstream at a right angle to sunrise on cooler days or end to end towards sunrise on hotter days. The humidity in the 15% to 3% is a bonus. We rarely use the trailer's furnace as it is a battery drainer and several blankets and a sleeping bag for really cold mornings... in August, do the trick as bed covers.

I received an email from 47WeeWind about how he did his Solar System and will have to study it. The not knowing does prevent people like myself from 'self installing' solar onto their trailer or as a foldout next to their trailer.

Much like your first attempt to real Boondocking Off the Grid. It is outside the comfort zone of most... until you just do it. That is me and Solar. My idea of testing voltage is wetting my index finger and touching a wire... so far, so good.

[Ziggy2]

Take a look at Solar threads on the forum. There are solar professionals out there that will do a much better job than the dealer. Also, you may want to put more wattage up there. The fact that the dealer didn't tell you that shows why you should go to a professional (which the dealers really aren't).

Is there room for larger batteries. I have a trailer and that's one of the big things that help us boon dock generator free. I bought a generator in 2005 and used it once before putting a real solar system in an haven't used the generator since. We watch TV and run the heater all night. We are able to camp in the snow and heat our tanks. I recommend that you rethink the 200 watts and try to improve battery capacity.

[nwclassic]

If you confine your adventures to severe clear, high sun angle, unforrested outings, solar alone can do it. There are many enjoyable trips that include none or only some of the listed conditions. A generator makes up for them. When the odds of encountering them are low, we leave the generator at home. Come fall, though, the odds change… and so our packing list.

[rodsterinfl]

Again, to each his own.
If I had to pick between solar or generator. I would select generator.
There is an advantage with solar for sure but the investment $$$ to power is still expensive and in my opinion, supplemental. I have 350 watts solar. In nearly every camping area I have stayed I have been in a wooded area. The solar power is minimal. The LP generator is great. It really depends on the climate and the conditions. Right now in my area, I would not want to camp without AC yet someone perhaps in Jackson Hole might be just fine climate-wise and perhaps on a treeless plateau or something.

I believe both are a good call if it is affordable. I bought solar to cover my daily regular usage needs (a solar guru calculated it for me as I provided the draw needed and hours used of each item). I over shot the needed wattage a bit by about 70 watts more solar than needed. The generator is for AC/microwave use and backup.

[NY24]

I WANT to be able to run my AC and / or microwave whenever I choose to. Generator is a must if I'm not plugged into shore power.

[FCStreamer]

Originally Posted by NY24

I WANT to be able to run my AC and / or microwave whenever I choose to. Generator is a must if I'm not plugged into shore power.

Me too.

[charlesk]

We've been on the road for two months now in the WA, ID, MT, ND AND SD and we have only been on solar.. Check the solar section of the forums. There is some great information and you'll be able to find a great installer. We used Lewester with AM Solar..

We have 600 watts on the roof and a 400+ Amp/hour battery system. We can use our induction cooktop, wife can use her hairdryer and we can even use the AC for a couple of hours on a good sunny day. This was an investment but we could not be happier. AM solar also has a great web page with lots of information.

[Ray Eklund]

Great posts and after I am retro fitting much of the interior hardware of our 2014 International... my next project is to work on the Solar needs.

Our 2006 23 foot Safari served our needs in the west with the Jackson Center's 80 watt Solar package that came with the trailer. We are usually above 3,000 feet in elevation to 9,500 feet so Air Conditioning never is an issue.

We camp the Mohave Desert and SW USA in the Winter months, and again AC is never an issue.

Our power needs are minimal as we are minimalists when it comes to exploring the High Country for Rocks, Minerals and occasionally gold panning to earn $1 an hour breaking our backs. Metal detecting has discovered more copper, silver and gold than gold panning in the western USA!

Our needs:

-At night I MUST have an AM station for news and weather.
-Our fresh water is for cooking and drinking.
-A Mr. Heater Portable Big Buddy Propane Heater will substitute for a quick warmup on a cold morning, without AS's furnace running.
-Our LED lights are even used in areas being used.
-Larger refrigerator is a grocery inside our trailer!
-Queen size bed is absolutely wonderful.
-Tools in the event this home on wheels needs more upkeep...

We do not take daily showers when Boondocked out in nowhere. Water heated from the river will substitute for Dog Water, dish washing and water to bathe outdoors. Few on the Forum can claim this minimalist camping, but those who do, already understand.

Parked at an RV Park is a last choice. We are just as comfortable in a vacant lot as a RV Park with crowds, traffic and closeness to the extremes of humanity at one location.

Our Airstream is an upgrade to our Tent Camping and we do not necessarily require all of the nice embellishments within... we still adhere to smart wilderness camping behavior. It is just our way exploring within our home in tow.

[Rocinante]

Agreed 100%, folks with this requirement should probably not spend time and money on either solar power or expensive batteries.

Originally Posted by NY24

I WANT to be able to run my AC and / or microwave whenever I choose to. Generator is a must if I'm not plugged into shore power.

[m.hony]

So far in all my 39 years of camping electricity has been available at the campsite.
Boondocking must primarily be an "out west" or national park thing.
The batteries without solar or a generator keep a charge long enough to have lunch in the trailer while traveling.
I guess I am spoiled by a/c and microwave...
We have done very minimal boondocking, but only in mild enough weather to not need a/c.

[kscherzi]

Three years ago I put 400 watts of solar panels on the roof. I don't own a generator. A couple times in very shady campsites my batteries nearly drained, but that took at least 4 days. The solution was to move to a sunny spot for the afternoon. We make no particular effort to conserve electricity. The trailer has an inverter to charge cell phones, watch TV (movies mainly) etc.

I've contemplated getting a generator, but I'm having a difficult time rationalizing it. We mostly camp at state parks and forest service campgrounds where hookups of any kind are nonexistent. However, this is not boondocking. We almost never camp at places with hookups (ie private RV parks).

I think, in my case, the reason for a generator would be to use the microwave or extend our camping into the rainy winter months where solar is handicapped. If I felt I needed to run the AC I'd either go to where I can plug in or simply get to a cooler location. Of course, not living in the south or east coast helps.

[Ray Eklund]

Originally Posted by m.hony

So far in all my 39 years of camping electricity has been available at the campsite.
Boondocking must primarily be an "out west" or national park thing.
The batteries without solar or a generator keep a charge long enough to have lunch in the trailer while traveling.
I guess I am spoiled by a/c and microwave...
We have done very minimal boondocking, but only in mild enough weather to not need a/c.

******

Somehow people outside the Rocky Mountains see a blank spot on the map once leaving Kansas. ... and you are 100% correct.

Sea Level to 2500 feet elevation, I can understand the need for considering electricity as necessary. It is.

I had no microwave or AC tent camping in the Badlands of Nebraska for thirty years. Survived and very comfortable, even in July.

With a trailer... at elevation, ask those on the 2016 Wyoming Adventure this August if AC was even a thought... not with FROST on the aluminum skin and most mornings below 50 degrees by morning. M.hony is correct... it is an Out West thing.

A majority of Airstream Owners do require electrical hookups for their style of camping. Nothing wrong with that, at all. There is nothing bad about NOT needing hookups or electrical power when parked outside our home in Castle Rock. Flatlanders will think they have entered the ICE Age here. It is only the hours before sunrise... you will shed the woolies at sunrise.

I do not need a humidifier here with 3% to 20% humidity. We ADD moisture to our homes. Our trailer in the Rockies may be in the 3% to 15% daily and it is a hot dry or cool dry outside air when camping. If you do not drink 48 ounces or more of water... get use to leg cramps. Sweating in the Rockies... is not permitted.

It IS different out West where the maps ARE blank white, except for some highways to get in and to get out. Maybe some spots on the map with obscure names of Eastern towns misplaced on a highway.

Rain and snow? The sun will dry things up sooner and you can ski the slopes at 12,000 feet wearing very little.

Today... Pikes Peak is covered with Snow. Maybe those coming to Colorado in September might want to check if the first snows are being moved up a month or more this year. Global Warming maybe in your neck of the woods... but here... my snow shovels are ready and the ATV with plow is awaiting a deep snowy October.

P.S. When tent camped at the Coleman Quartz Mine in Arkansas... back when our wagon rolled into camp, we ran an extension cord from power, into the tent, to the electric coffee pot on the camp site table. When ready to greet sunrise, we connected the plugs and had hot coffee waiting for us! That was a luxury moment for us.

[Hittenstiehl]

It is all a matter of perspective and where your camping experience comes from.

Mhoney, In 40ish years of camping we've never plugged into anything. But we can appreciate it and will enjoy it when it's ready in ours. Coming from tent camping makes dry camping an easier switch.

We think we'd like to have solar and a generator in the future if conditions necessitate one over another.