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Old 04-13-2015, 12:47 PM   #121
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Also something else to consider might just be a visit to bogartengineering.com as they are the company who designed and manufactures the Trimetric and Solar controller.
There is a lot of useful information, especially in the Users Instructions for Tri-Metric, especially section 7.
Important information about battery charging to keep from killing your batteries.
Ralph is always ready to answer questions that aren't on the FAQ page.


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Old 04-15-2015, 07:37 PM   #122
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When mentioning four Lifeline model 6ct 6Vdc at 300 amp hour batteries, one needs to consider where the 372 pounds of batteries will be placed.
I think your battery bank looks mighty nice. I was curious about adding that much weight up on the tongue. If possible wouldn't an optimal place be closer to the fulcrum (the wheels)?
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Old 04-15-2015, 08:05 PM   #123
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Lew, how are the new flex panels working out so far?
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Old 04-15-2015, 08:34 PM   #124
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Lew, how are the new flex panels working out so far?
I have 5 Grape Solar 100 watt flex panels on the roof of my service van that replaced 5 GS-100 hard panels at the end of the summer. All other components remained the same; 200 amp/hour lithium battery, Magnum MS2812 2800 watt sine wave inverter and AM Solar Signature 40MPPT/4 solar controller core.

The solar is the ONLY charge source for the batteries, as I never plug in, but the system operates a Danfoss compressor fridge 24/7/365 on DC and the inverter powers battery chargers for power tools, 120VAC floodlights and the occasional drill or Sawzall.

I have noticed that even at fairly low battery levels which call for maximum charging output from the solar controller, I only have seen 22-24 amps max. going into the batteries with the MPPT boost. Compare this to the 35-38 amps that the hard panels were placing into the batteries and you can see the difference.

Last summer, we did a little comparison at AM Solar between the hard GS-100 panel and their PhotoFlex 100 panel. These were taken directly off the shelf and were not specially provided for the test (as some solar companies are apt to do). With both panels lying flat on a gravel driveway and the sun overhead at around 1:00 PM, the GS-100 panel was placing about 95 watts into the controller while the Flex was between 72-75 watts.

My theory is that to obtain a flexible membrane, plastic has to be used both in the panel backing and the face layer. It's this face layer that has a certain degree of reflectivity to it and does not admit the same level of solar radiance to the cell surface. This, coupled with lower sensitivity in low light situations (times of overcast skies or outside 'solar noon') compound the daily net reduction of charging amperage to the batteries.

In addition, the lack of heat dissipation of a surface mounted flex panel further decreases it's efficiency, as there is no room behind the panel for cooling.

This situation CAN be overcome by adding additional panels to make up the difference. My 500 watts still sufficiently charge the lithium batteries in almost any conditions, as it is well over what would normally be required for a 200 amp/hour lithium battery.

I will be removing the flex panels to do some beta testing on a new solar cell formulation, probably around mid summer. Can't talk about these yet, but some interesting new materials are finally making it to market!

I'll post on the Forum when I am able and have something to report.
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:53 PM   #125
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I spent several hours today at AM Solar in Springfield, Oregon (a suburb of Eugene, OR). In addition to picking up our new battery, I was also getting the wiring information for this lithium iron phosphate 12Vdc 600 amp hour battery that will weight 168 pounds when the four 3.2Vdc 600 amp hour cells are wired in parallel. There is more to this swap out than meets the eye.

We will also have to re-program the TriStar 60 solar charge controller along with the Magnum inverter/converter to the settings for this new battery. We should be able to use all the existing 4-0 copper wiring since the new battery will be inside the coach under the front sofa.

AM Solar has quite a nice facility and would be able to work on any Airstream inside their well equipped service center. Their staff is both knowledgeable and friendly. I was glad to make the trip to gain the important details for our installation.
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Old 06-12-2015, 05:01 AM   #126
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Hello Sun peeps panel mounting question here,

I am preparing to mount a regular non-flex mono panel on my roof DIY.
(I got the flexible panel mounted BTW with space underneath for cooling as per your posts) ok, back to mounting. I purchased the Renogy panel and Z bracket mount kit for RVs. I just wanted to check beforehand on mounting tips for an Airstream roof. They are Z brackets with two mounting bolts at each bracket. Has anyone used this kit? The bolts look to be sheet metal type self tapping. 1 1/4" from head top to tip and have a plastic washer. Mechanic dad thinks that the mounting screws will be fine but want opinion. Also in relation to the roof. I assume that avoidance of rivet lines are important? Any tips on location? I have a spot picked out behind the AC unit- to drill the holes use sealant and slightly mound it over the bracket. My model has a wide-open space in the rear between the vent and AC. I am looking at center of that.
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Old 06-12-2015, 11:34 AM   #127
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I NEVER drill holes in an Airstream roof to mount solar panels. 3 M VHB tape and Sikaflex polyurethane sealant is all you need..........


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Old 06-12-2015, 04:03 PM   #128
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Tape? Wow. Does it matter how big a panel? It is 39.5x39 and requires four of their regular brackets. I certainly like the idea of no screws but it has to stick! Do you know where to buy it in Lee or Collier Co?

I do not plan to be climbing up on the roof to tilt the panel but I notice that some of the mount types have black wing nuts. Does this matter that much? Or rather, does it matter any differently for an Airstream than another RV type?
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Old 06-12-2015, 09:51 PM   #129
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Panel tilting is a direct factor of off-season camping when the sum is low on the horizon. We offer tilt feet and pre-made tilt bars that lift the panels up 45 degrees for up to 30% increase in solar radiance.

I use the tape/SikaFlex combo on all panels for mer or smooth fiberglass roofs up to 160 watts, which measures 26 X 57


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Old 06-13-2015, 06:40 AM   #130
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I used Lew's method on the same size panel with the Renogy brackets. It has now traveled several thousand miles and is still rock solid. I ordered my VHB tape off Amazon snd purchased the sikiflex at Lowes.
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Old 06-13-2015, 08:57 AM   #131
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Good to hear. My panel is a Renogy 150 watt and almost square shape so about 4" will stick out beyond the AC units sides (mounted behind unit) and be in direct wind while traveling. When you say same size Jarrod, do you mean my 39.5x39 or lewster's 26x57?
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Old 06-13-2015, 09:25 AM   #132
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I didn't have as good luck with the tape. Maybe the way I installed. Because the roof is curved I bolted the mounting brackets to the panels first, placed the panel in its final position, then one by one peeled the protective layer and stuck it to the roof. Because of the roof curvature only two brackets stuck on flat. The other two did not. I had to loosen the mounting screws to allow the other two to tilt to flat and stick. After retightening the panel, the brackets peeled back off the roof as they rotated back in alignment with the panel. I ended up screwing them onto the roof. Then slathered the waterproofing material all over.
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Old 06-13-2015, 11:11 AM   #133
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Nope. You didn't do it correctly.


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Old 06-13-2015, 12:19 PM   #134
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I have the 100W flex solar panel from GoPower. Good performance and charging so far. Even if the output is less than fixed for the same size the advantages of a zero/low profile design in appearance vs something that adds drag/weight of the fixed case unit seem compelling.

Have also read about fixed box solar cells that were not attached properly and have come off. Do not want to worry about that.
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Old 06-18-2015, 09:15 PM   #135
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Now, finally as of tonight, my roof panel is mounted with the tape. I will say that the tape seems to hold well. My panel is big and nearly square. I had bit of an issue like kscherzy with the mounts. The arched roof slopes down at the mount point and the center of the panel touches the roof which is unavoidable with that size panel. It would never work on a narrow body model. The Renogy mounts adjust somewhat to angle a bit which is what I had to do to make it work. I looked online at the other types of mounts just to compare. Those with the screw knob definitely make the panel sit up higher off the roof while the Renogy panel mounts are about an inch tall. The camper next to me in storage has panels and they were about two inches off the roof.
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Old 08-12-2015, 07:45 AM   #136
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I am reading about the heat buildup issues of mounting these flexible panels directly on the roof panels...
Would adding some insulation under them help with that or make it worse?
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Old 08-12-2015, 09:23 AM   #137
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I am reading about the heat buildup issues of mounting these flexible panels directly on the roof panels...
Would adding some insulation under them help with that or make it worse?
Worse!

One of the biggest faults with flex panels is their increased operating temperatures due to lack of air circulation under the panels. As solar panels heat up, their efficiency (output) drops significantly and after a certain point, that drop is like a rock into a pond.

In addition to the decreased efficiency, they capture less solar radiance as they have a plastic protective face which is reflective. This plastic is also soft to allow the panel to flex, which also makes it highly susceptible to surface scratching, which will further decrease the efficiency.
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Old 08-13-2015, 09:16 AM   #138
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Having a narrow-body motorhome like KeyAir, I think I'll stick with flexible panels, no matter the deficiencies. Love Airstreams because of their shape. I just can't see rigid panels mounted on roof of my Airstream.
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Old 08-13-2015, 10:40 AM   #139
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Lew, did you get my email?
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Old 08-14-2015, 06:46 AM   #140
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Lee, got your email, will follow up with you. Thanks
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